Too fat to rescue? More heavy patients denied air ambulances - Polidicks

[quote]For the 446-pound patient in New Mexico, having a heart attack wasn’t the worst thing that happened last April. Even more harrowing was being turned down by the air ambulance that came to the rescue -- because the victim was too big to get off the ground. “It’s an issue for sure,” said Craig Yale, vice president of corporate development for Air Methods, one of the nation’s biggest air medical transport providers. “We can get to a scene and find that the patient is too heavy to be able to go.”[/quote] [url=http://www.nbcnews.com/health/too-fat-rescue-more-heavy-patients-denied-air-ambulances-6C10485763]Source[/url] Soon we shall use chinooks to lift our patients! :911:

The idea that a human's body weight could prevent a helicopter from flying sounds preposterous.

A man that size doesn't sound like he could even fit in the copter even if they could lift him [img]http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/streams/2013/June/130628/6C8077100-130627-air-ambulance-hmed-524.blocks_desktop_medium.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;41487462]The idea that a human's body weight could prevent a helicopter from flying sounds preposterous.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't. The damn thing is flying, it has to be as light as possible. And some people can be VERY fat. This guy was about three times average weight.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;41487462]The idea that a human's body weight could prevent a helicopter from flying sounds preposterous.[/QUOTE] Elevators have a weight limit, because otherwise they wouldn't be able to move. The same thing applies to helicopters.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;41487462]The idea that a human's body weight could prevent a helicopter from flying sounds preposterous.[/QUOTE] I work with helicopters for a living. Helicopters are very sensitive to weight requirements, and if people are really damn heavy, they can't operate well enough to fly safely. They have to take into account the weight and balance of all of the life supporting equipment and supplies and the flight medics, and then add in the weight of the patient. The main rotor can only have so much torque stressed on it, and heavy weights will definitely do it.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;41487462]The idea that a human's body weight could prevent a helicopter from flying sounds preposterous.[/QUOTE] Not really. As someone who has been around/in small aircraft and rotorcraft for quite a few years, every pound and the placement thereof affects the flight characteristics. If you go on those small propeller commuter planes, it's not uncommon for flight attendants to reseat people in order to ensure the center of gravity doesn't sit in an unsafe position. So, a 400-600 pound person, plus EMTs, stretchers, and other medical equipment could drastically affect the way the rotorcraft flies.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;41487462]The idea that a human's body weight could prevent a helicopter from flying sounds preposterous.[/QUOTE] No it doesn't, ~400lbs is a lot of weight to chuck in the back of a helicopter. Without knowing what helicopter they are using its impossible to say for sure but it is entirely possible that it pushed it over the safe weight limit.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;41487472]No it doesn't. The damn thing is flying, it has to be as light as possible. And some people can be VERY fat. This guy was about three times average weight.[/QUOTE] While it's true that all aircraft have a max take off (And landing) weight, unless it's a small helicopter, a guy that weighs 450 pounds isn't going to exceed that weight unless there's a ton of equipment, 2 or 3 crew members, and fuel tanks that are mostly full. 450lbs is just a touch more than the weight of just one additional buff guy after the patient. If the helicopter is anything like the one pictured in the article, it's probably a size issue, rather than weight

[QUOTE=TheTalon;41487541]While it's true that all aircraft have a max take off (And landing) weight, unless it's a small helicopter, a guy that weighs 450 pounds isn't going to exceed that weight, That's the weight of just one additional buff guy. If the helicopter is anything like the one pictured in the article, it's probably a size issue, rather than weight[/QUOTE] You also need to take balance into consideration. A 450 pound wrecking ball in the rear of the helicopter gives birth to bad flight characteristics.

You'd think that rescue helicopters would have safety margins in place to consider extremities such as this. Yes the man is heavy and would affect the balance of the helicopter but this should have been considered.

Invest in Skycranes. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Sikorsky_Skycrane_carrying_house_bw.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Antdawg;41487602]You'd think that rescue helicopters would have safety margins in place to consider extremities such as this. Yes the man is heavy and would affect the balance of the helicopter but this should have been considered.[/QUOTE] It has been considered, they don't put every things in it. Its entirely possible that a air ambulance is working towards the upper limit of its weight capabilities (gotta have a lot of fuel to cover emergencies and diverting), 450lbs could easily throw it over the edge. Not to mention as others have said it might unbalance the helicopter because they will be in the back of it.

A flatbed truck would be cheaper than a skycrane, and you could play music like an ice cream truck as you drove down the street so all the residents could come out and watch you pass by. If they can haul the Space Shuttle around town I'm sure moving a quarter ton human being is no problem.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;41487602]You'd think that rescue helicopters would have safety margins in place to consider extremities such as this. Yes the man is heavy and would affect the balance of the helicopter but this should have been considered.[/QUOTE] You consider the norms of your needs and then push quite a bit further. If they were to put every single thing they would ever need, along with capability to deal with every patient, what is the point of bringing them to the hospital anyways? Not to mention; bigger vehicle, less maneuverability.

[QUOTE=deadoon;41487794]You consider the norms of your needs and then push quite a bit further. If they were to put every single thing they would ever need, along with capability to deal with every patient, what is the point of bringing them to the hospital anyways? Not to mention; bigger vehicle, less maneuverability.[/QUOTE] And fuckloads more expensive to run

[QUOTE=deadoon;41487794]You consider the norms of your needs and then push quite a bit further. If they were to put every single thing they would ever need, along with capability to deal with every patient, what is the point of bringing them to the hospital anyways? Not to mention; bigger vehicle, less maneuverability.[/QUOTE] I said it because when you have things like bridges for example they can usually support up to twice the load that they are stated to be able to carry. I guess the bloke was three time the average weight though.

Emergency services gets funded so that they can help who they need to, not who the average is. When you start selectively denying people like this (because you didn't account for it) you open up a can of worms that's on par with hitler's vision for a 'perfect germany' by getting rid of everyone different, even if it wasn't intended. People can and will die if practices like this become more common.

[QUOTE=popbob;41488654]Emergency services gets funded so that they can help who they need to, not who the average is. When you start selectively denying people like this (because you didn't account for it) you open up a can of worms that's on par with hitler's vision for a 'perfect germany' by getting rid of everyone different, even if it wasn't intended. People can and will die if practices like this become more common.[/QUOTE] Yyyyyeahhh no. It's a technical limitation that only excludes the most extreme outliers. The guy weighed 450 pounds.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;41488689]Yyyyyeahhh no. It's a technical limitation that only excludes the most extreme outliers. The guy weighed 450 pounds.[/QUOTE] 450lbs is hardly extreme outlier, there's plenty of people well over that weight. It's only (unfortunately) going to become more common for people to get fatter, so we should be keeping this in mind rather than denying these people life-saving treatment.

[QUOTE=TheTalon;41487541]While it's true that all aircraft have a max take off (And landing) weight, unless it's a small helicopter, a guy that weighs 450 pounds isn't going to exceed that weight unless there's a ton of equipment, 2 or 3 crew members, and fuel tanks that are mostly full. 450lbs is just a touch more than the weight of just one additional buff guy after the patient. If the helicopter is anything like the one pictured in the article, it's probably a size issue, rather than weight[/QUOTE] I would hate to see the "buff guy" that weighs 450 lbs. This is Ronnie Coleman, and this roided mutant freak weighs just a bit shy of 300: [t]http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?&attachmentid=1558&stc=1[/t] And either way, you're totally ignoring the balance aspect of flight. A quarter-ton of dead weight in the rear of the small air ambulance would make it fly like a flung brick, if it could lift off at all.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;41487472]No it doesn't. The damn thing is flying, it has to be as light as possible. And some people can be VERY fat. This guy was about three times average weight.[/QUOTE] but what about planes that do this? [thumb]http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1370/1293841853_191178fa14_z.jpg[/thumb] just do that with the over weight!

[QUOTE=popbob;41488654]Emergency services gets funded so that they can help who they need to, not who the average is. When you start selectively denying people like this (because you didn't account for it) you open up a can of worms that's on par with hitler's vision for a 'perfect germany' by getting rid of everyone different, even if it wasn't intended. People can and will die if practices like this become more common.[/QUOTE] Wow, jeez, oh man, golly...! This isn't a matter of weeding out imperfect specimens, ya dork! Air ambulance helicopters are not physically designed to handle weight loads like that! Most of those things are just retired civilian or news helicopters that have been repurposed-- not military grade cargo haulers.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;41488712][t]http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/forum/attachment.php?&attachmentid=1558&stc=1[/t][/QUOTE] People like this always looks so fake to me.

Unfortunately, I can totally see this happening. Your average JetRanger, which is probably the most common helicopter in the US, has an empty weight of 1,700 lbs and a max takeoff weight of 3,200. That leaves around 1,500 lbs for fuel, medical equipment (which is considerable), pilot, EMTs, and patient. 400 lbs does not fit easily into that equation. On top of that, when you read the article, it is clear that the dimensions of the patient loading doors factor into this as well. Even if you leave an EMT behind (which, BTW, you want those people on the aircraft with you) you may not be able to physically fit the patient on the helicopter. Weight is a huge factor in air travel, we just don't notice it because most of our day-to-day experience with flight is on big passenger planes. If you exceed the max takeoff weight of a Cessna, you run out of runway before you get enough speed to take off. That JetRanger will sit on the ground at full throttle all day long if you're over the maximum weight. I was actually surprised to learn that some air ambulance helicopters can't take patients over 225-250 lbs. I'm in that range and I hardly consider myself to be morbidly obese, so it's kind of shocking to think that in some parts of the country I could be shit out of luck if I need a chopper ride to the hospital.

[QUOTE=MIPS;41487665]Invest in Skycranes.[/QUOTE] I was wondering why you wrote this as a plural, then I remembered that there are people on this earth who go to Macca's three times a day.

[QUOTE=popbob;41488654]Emergency services gets funded so that they can help who they need to, not who the average is. When you start selectively denying people like this (because you didn't account for it) you open up a can of worms that's on par with hitler's vision for a 'perfect germany' by getting rid of everyone different, even if it wasn't intended. People can and will die if practices like this become more common.[/QUOTE] Would you prefer reading an article about how a helicopter crashed, killing the pilot, the patient, any emergency personnel on board, and anyone caught in the crash site; all because they decided to airlift someone out of their carrying capacity?

[QUOTE=MIPS;41487665]Invest in Skycranes. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Sikorsky_Skycrane_carrying_house_bw.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] That house cannot possibly be worth the money it takes to fly that Sikorsky out there to lift it.

[QUOTE=silentjubjub;41488765]People like this always looks so fake to me.[/QUOTE] People that look like that are pumped full of so many volatile chemicals that they're not allowed near open flames.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;41487602] Yes the man is heavy and would affect the balance of the helicopter but this should have been considered.[/QUOTE] WHY DONT THE PEOPLE JUST STOP GETTING SO FAT they wouldnt even need an ambulance in the first place