Too fat to rescue? More heavy patients denied air ambulances - Polidicks

[QUOTE=popbob;41488654]Emergency services gets funded so that they can help who they need to, not who the average is. When you start selectively denying people like this (because you didn't account for it) you open up a can of worms that's on par with hitler's vision for a 'perfect germany' by getting rid of everyone different, even if it wasn't intended. People can and will die if practices like this become more common.[/QUOTE] Wow first post in this thread and already Godwin, good job.

[QUOTE=popbob;41488711]450lbs is hardly extreme outlier, there's plenty of people well over that weight. It's only (unfortunately) going to become more common for people to get fatter, so we should be keeping this in mind rather than denying these people life-saving treatment.[/QUOTE] Airlifting is not primary response and 450lb people are huge. Like, borderline unable to walk huge. There maybe a couple dozen 450+ people in the US. Maybe even a few hundred. That's still a fraction of a percent, though.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;41488882]Airlifting is not primary response and 450lb people are huge. Like, borderline unable to walk huge. There maybe a couple dozen 450+ people in the US. Maybe even a few hundred. That's still a fraction of a percent, though.[/QUOTE] Dude, there are a shitload more than "a few hundred" people in the US who are over 450 pounds. 3.5% of people in the US are morbidly obese on the BMI scale. That means there are over 10 million people in the US who above that mark.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;41488969]Dude, there are a shitload more than "a few hundred" people in the US who are over 450 pounds. 3.5% of people in the US are morbidly obese on the BMI scale. That means there are over 10 million people in the US who above that mark.[/QUOTE] BMI is not indicative of weight and you should feel bad for using it as a metric for such.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;41488978]BMI is not indicative of weight and you should feel bad for using it as a metric for such.[/QUOTE] Yes, I know the BMI system is essentially bullshit, but the point is there are clearly more than a few hundred people in the US that are in that weight class.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;41489009]Yes, I know the BMI system is essentially bullshit, but the point is there are clearly more than a few hundred people in the US that are in that weight class.[/QUOTE] Yes, we probably should have at least a few medical vehicles for an area to be able to lift heavy patients, but people getting so obese is pretty recent and equipment can be slow to change.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;41487462]The idea that a human's body weight could prevent a helicopter from flying sounds preposterous.[/QUOTE] There are plenty of helicopters that could carry a 400lb person, these helicopters probably even could, but through a combination of other crew members, equipment, and where the patient sits they're not designed to

What about muscular men or those with growth disorders? Andre the Giant was so big he had his own transport schedules and everything. He had to fly in his own private plane, and had a huge caravan trailer built for him as no car could accommodate his size. He was so big that he was once mugged, but he flipped the car of his attackers. There should be something to accommodate heavier people, as people such as Andre (RIP) and the Big Show, who both had acromegaly, are a lot more susceptible to emergency diseases or conditions.

[QUOTE=wug;41489710]He was so big that he was once mugged, but he flipped the car of his attackers.[/QUOTE] not that he couldn't roll a mini or a golf if he wanted to but that story isn't true. it's just an old bar tale

If you're gaining that much weight and refuse to do anything about it, you should know that your ability to remain mobile is going to be affected. You should know that it's going to be more difficult to receive help if you need it.

Im assuming Shaq would suffer too? He has to be close if not over 400lbs now,but somehow fits in a hybrid .

the Shaq is 324 lbs (holy fuck)

[QUOTE=wug;41489710]What about muscular men or those with growth disorders? Andre the Giant was so big he had his own transport schedules and everything. He had to fly in his own private plane, and had a huge caravan trailer built for him as no car could accommodate his size. He was so big that he was once mugged, but he flipped the car of his attackers. There should be something to accommodate heavier people, as people such as Andre (RIP) and the Big Show, who both had acromegaly, are a lot more susceptible to emergency diseases or conditions.[/QUOTE] The main issue is cost and the requirements for helicopters used for air ambulances. A helicopter to carry larger or heavier people would need to be designed accordingly, and would be larger, with a greater mass, which would necessitate using more, or stronger engines. It'd also shove the fuel requirements up, and down the efficiency. Air ambulance funds are typically pretty low, and they can't really afford purpose built air ambulances, let alone less efficient ones. Then there's the actual requirements for the ambulance. They are normally wanted for reaching people in places where a conventional ambulance cannot reach, due to lack of road access or whatnot, or to get someone to the hospital really fast. They need to be able to land in as many places as possible, and thus you want fairly small, controllable helicopters for that reason. A larger air ambulance for large patients or excessively heavy patients would compromise both the versatility of the air ambulance, the speed and the fuel efficiency. Sure it'd be nice if we had more oversized air ambulances (there are some that can take two patients) in addition to standard ones, but the cost would be huge considering how rarely they'd be needed compared to current ones, and their extra fuel costs. There'd still be the balancing issues regarding patient weight, too.

[QUOTE=Bleach Qeef;41490018]Im assuming Shaq would suffer too? He has to be close if not over 400lbs now,but somehow fits in a hybrid .[/QUOTE] he's in the low 300s right now I think, but he's incredibly tall rather than fat

[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;41487471]A man that size doesn't sound like he could even fit in the copter even if they could lift him [img]http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/streams/2013/June/130628/6C8077100-130627-air-ambulance-hmed-524.blocks_desktop_medium.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Jesus, is that what they look like? that looks absolutely horrifying for the patient

[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;41490232]Jesus, is that what they look like? that looks absolutely horrifying for the patient[/QUOTE] Are you kidding?! That looks fucking awesome!

When i was doing initial attack firefighting a few years ago i wasn't able to go on the helicopters en route to fires because i weigh over 200lbs and that's the limit they set. when someone is over 3 times the average weight of a man, that can cause some serious problems for a helicopters ability to fly and be controlled properly with the added weight of the pilot(s) and EMS that have to accompany the patient

[QUOTE=popbob;41488654]Emergency services gets funded so that they can help who they need to, not who the average is. When you start selectively denying people like this (because you didn't account for it) you open up a can of worms that's on par with hitler's vision for a 'perfect germany' by getting rid of everyone different, even if it wasn't intended. People can and will die if practices like this become more common.[/QUOTE] yes you're absolutely right it's all just a ruse by the government to weed out fat people from the population are you even listening to yourself lol

[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;41490232]Jesus, is that what they look like? that looks absolutely horrifying for the patient[/QUOTE] I don't think someone who needs an air ambulance will really give a fuck about their means of entry and exit and more if they can be put back together.

So what's the most one could carry safely? Something around 300?

I understand how the couldn't fit. I've repaired a PC inside a mediheli once and sitting in the crammed space sucked when I was there alone (I'm not a massive guy, 180cm and 77kg/170 pounds) not to mention when there's several people as medical staff in there. The area where the patient would be lying down was so small it was impossible to get there without going through the tiny hole in the back of the chopper like in the picture posted before. There is NO way someone weighing almost 3 times me fits in there.

s-stop fat shaming them!

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;41487462]The idea that a human's body weight could prevent a helicopter from flying sounds preposterous.[/QUOTE] The heavier the person the more strain on the helicopter to gain lift. Its exactly the problem they faced trying to move the biggest/heaviest man alive, they had to use a chinook because he was so big.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;41488831]That house cannot possibly be worth the money it takes to fly that Sikorsky out there to lift it.[/QUOTE] Probably showcasing the helicopters strength

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;41488831]That house cannot possibly be worth the money it takes to fly that Sikorsky out there to lift it.[/QUOTE] You assume it is delivering a house. In reality it is the most fucked up kidnapping ever.

[QUOTE=GunFox;41491148]You assume it is delivering a house. In reality it is the most fucked up kidnapping ever.[/QUOTE] Next Die Hard movie. Bruce Willis is spending Thanksgiving home when suddenly [del]German[/del], [del]Russian[/del] Mexican terrorists kidnap his family [B]AND HIS HOUSE[/B] [sub][sub]Premiers this Autumn[/sub][/sub]

[QUOTE=MIPS;41487665]Invest in Skycranes. [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Sikorsky_Skycrane_carrying_house_bw.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Quadruple the fuel budget for the air ambulances then! :v: Also, just don't get too fat to rescue, it's not hard. [editline]17th July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Soleeedus;41490088]the Shaq is 324 lbs (holy fuck)[/QUOTE] Yeah but he'd at least fit in the door.

Without counting fuel, think of this: An air medic with a full ALS bag probably (if hes muscular) would weight 260lbs+, with another medic, and a pilot or two

I wonder if the cost of a higher-capacity medivac helicopter would cover bariatric surgery for every 400lb+ patient in a given service area. It's a simple outpatient procedure nowadays, and I would think it's cheaper for Medicare/Medicaid/insurance to pay for it than to pay for entirely new infrastructure for transporting super-obese people.

Arent there bigger medical helicopters for people who are naturally big/unfortunately fat genetically? I'm guessing there are, but not as many as it would cost more to maintain them.