[QUOTE=sami-elite;27779440]In the west people get murdered and raped too. People get tortured and horribly mutilated. People are given the death penalty for something they didn't do. Serial killers go free. Child abuse happens. Child porn happens.
I am not talking about just justice. Unless you're trying to prove they are savages by pointing out their sense of justice is wrong. In which case they are not savages. They are injust by our standard.
This is about porn and how their government punishes those that disobey the law.[/QUOTE]
Just because it's the law doesn't mean it's right.
[QUOTE=GunFox;27774476]I have little issue with crushing their culture.
We will never get along. We've spent several thousand years immersed in either conflict or tensions as a result of our cultural differences.
One of the two cultures has to go. Seeing as they regularly trample the most basic of human rights, I vote that it is theirs.
Not that I know how we'd go about accomplishing this without simply slaughtering them. Which would fail to achieve the desired outcome anyways.[/QUOTE]
yep
establishing colonies and killing brown people
[QUOTE=ThePutty;27784956]"let's wipe out an entire culture with thousands of years of history because we don't get along"[/QUOTE]
Yes. That is exactly the reason.
In the long term our cultural ideals are so fundamentally different that we cannot expect a victory through any path other than absorbing them. Otherwise we are doomed to repeat history infinitely.
War hasn't worked. Direct negotiations have failed. Making them willingly adopt our way of life is the most reasonable path towards peace and ultimately cooperation as a species.
It starts with large amounts of trade with the target nation or region and can slowly expand from there. I'd imagine the key is to never force the issue. Get the people to adopt it in as subtle a fashion as possible. The western ideals are a remarkably virulent thing.
But of course you want to continue the current path of bloodshed in order to preserve a "culture". It isn't a thing which will magically hurt the world by its loss. Culture doesn't need to be preserved. Recorded for history? Of course. But preserved? Fuck that. It is a set of ideas. Nothing more, nothing less.
[QUOTE=GunFox;27786689]Yes. That is exactly the reason.
In the long term our cultural ideals are so fundamentally different that we cannot expect a victory through any path other than absorbing them. Otherwise we are doomed to repeat history infinitely.
War hasn't worked. Direct negotiations have failed. Making them willingly adopt our way of life is the most reasonable path towards peace and ultimately cooperation as a species.
It starts with large amounts of trade with the target nation or region and can slowly expand from there. I'd imagine the key is to never force the issue. Get the people to adopt it in as subtle a fashion as possible. The western ideals are a remarkably virulent thing.
But of course you want to continue the current path of bloodshed in order to preserve a "culture". It isn't a thing which will magically hurt the world by its loss. Culture doesn't need to be preserved. Recorded for history? Of course. But preserved? Fuck that. It is a set of ideas. Nothing more, nothing less.[/QUOTE]
It isn't just a set of ideas, it's a person's entire way of life. Their ideals, their morals, everything they think and feel is influenced by their culture. It isn't something we should just think of as irrelevant, just because we have a different culture than they do. If their culture finds pornography immoral, then that's up to them. I wouldn't mind if they adapted a bit, maybe phased out some of the more violent aspects, but in the end cultural variety is what makes us individuals.
Basically my point is they have just as much right to their culture as we do, and we shouldn't be the ones to decide for them.
links to said viral video?
[QUOTE=Pythagoras;27786800]It isn't just a set of ideas, it's a person's entire way of life. Their ideals, their morals, everything they think and feel is influenced by their culture. It isn't something we should just think of as irrelevant, just because we have a different culture than they do.
I wouldn't mind if they adapted a bit, maybe phased out some of the more violent aspects, but in the end cultural variety is what makes us individuals.[/QUOTE]
It is just a set of ideas. Everything you stated was precisely just that: an idea.
Yeah hooray individualism! Unless you are homosexual. Or are a woman. I'd be willing to accept a little less variety in the world in order to both better understand one another at a fundamental level and stop (Or at the very least take the first step towards stopping) the unnecessary persecution of homosexuals, racial minorities, and rampant sexism in the world.
We can have tolerance and individuality at the same time. It's not like those things are mutually exclusive.
A world without different perspectives sounds like a bleak place to me. We would never have any new ideas.
[QUOTE=sami-elite;27779440]In the west people get murdered and raped too. People get tortured and horribly mutilated. People are given the death penalty for something they didn't do. Serial killers go free. Child abuse happens. Child porn happens.
I am not talking about just justice. Unless you're trying to prove they are savages by pointing out their sense of justice is wrong. In which case they are not savages. They are injust by our standard.
This is about porn and how their government punishes those that disobey the law.[/QUOTE]
Most murders and rapes aren't bloody government sanctioned.
Arresting someone for such a victimless thing as two people consensually having sex is stone age shit along the levels of making blasphemy illegal.
Wow, Indonesia, what a shithole.
[QUOTE=Pythagoras;27786996]We can have tolerance and individuality at the same time. It's not like those things are mutually exclusive.
A world without different perspectives sounds like a bleak place to me. We would never have any new ideas.[/QUOTE]
The guys who stone women to death for getting raped aren't exactly contributing much.
[QUOTE=GunFox;27793532]The guys who stone women to death for getting raped aren't exactly contributing much.[/QUOTE]
No, they aren't. But the guys who have unique cultural perspectives on morals and ideas are contributing, which is what is important.
I'm not condoning stoning people to death. It is barbaric. But I wouldn't go right to the other extreme and say their culture needs to disappear completely, because they have a lot of unique ideas that western culture might not have.
[QUOTE=sami-elite;27774117]
Different culture. Don't go hating. They don't like our ways either.[/QUOTE]
Well they can suck my dick. (oh wait, it's not allowed) Our culture sure ain't perfect but at least we don't practice our beliefs in such amazingly barbaric ways.
[QUOTE=Pythagoras;27795915]No, they aren't. But the guys who have unique cultural perspectives on morals and ideas are contributing, which is what is important.
I'm not condoning stoning people to death. It is barbaric. But I wouldn't go right to the other extreme and say their culture needs to disappear completely, because they have a lot of unique ideas that western culture might not have.[/QUOTE]
Such as?
I'm afraid you need more than "but they might have unique ideas" to successfully defend a culture that executes homosexuals.
Mayan culture had a lot of unique ideas that western culture doesn't have.
Like sacrifices.
[QUOTE=Carbon Knight;27796834]Mayan culture had a lot of unique ideas that western culture doesn't have.
Like sacrifices.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention their art style was unique and beautiful, and their customs were quite fascinating if you care to look into them. Sacrifices were just a small part of what made up the Mayan culture.
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