[UK] Over a third of Brexit leave voters hold 'racially prejudiced' views - Polidicks

He has a point though. Stabbing people and threatening them based on their beliefs, colour of their skin, and their country of origin, can never be considered "moderate". Moderate is someone who will engage in dialogue and attempt to resolve any conflict peacefully. The EDL, by assaulting people, are already way past the definition of "moderate". [editline]1st October 2017[/editline] It's not debatable. If you're a moderate, you're the one attempting to bridge the difference between the extremes from the left and right. You cannot reasonable label yourself, or others, as a moderate if you go out of your way to try to kill people who has a slightly different skin colour from yourself.

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52736156]He has a point though. Stabbing people and threatening them based on their beliefs, colour of their skin, and their country of origin, can never be considered "moderate". Moderate is someone who will engage in dialogue and attempt to resolve any conflict peacefully. The EDL, by assaulting people, are already way past the definition of "moderate".[/QUOTE] I wasn't necessarily pointing them out as a "moderate" political entity, I was more meaning their overall actions and words are not severe, and seen them more as moderate actions on the scale of lesser to severe, my wording was off, I'll do the right thing and not go back to change it following the discussion but if you've read anything else I've said I'd appreciate it if we wouldn't bite down on it too hard, I do still recommend you watch the videos of Tommy though. Edit: I did also point out that they are likened to a football firm, if anyone is from the UK and have met or seen football hooligans you will know that his is the exact behaviour that comes from them, stabbing, trashing pubs and shops and rioting and marching down the streets. It's just a different brand for the same bunch of cunts, the actions are similar, instead of stabbing people who support a different football team they are stabbing people of a different religion, I thought I summed that up quite nicely in my original post.

[QUOTE=Faunze;52736177]I wasn't necessarily pointing them out as a "moderate" political entity, I was more meaning their overall actions and words are not severe, and seen them more as moderate actions on the scale of lesser to severe, my wording was off, I'll do the right thing and not go back to change it following the discussion but if you've read anything else I've said I'd appreciate it if we wouldn't bite down on it too hard, I do still recommend you watch the videos of Tommy though.[/QUOTE] I don't think that's a good way to look at it. If you're always going to judge someone based on their actions compared to others, you will always find someone who is worse, and then before we know it, we will have people arguing that ISIS are actually just moderates. You can't do that. It's not feasible. Just call out people for the shit they do. The EDL are [I]not[/I] moderates. Never have been, never will be, regardless of how they appear next to other groups.

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52736192]The EDL are [I]not[/I] moderates. Never have been, never will be, regardless of how they appear next to other groups.[/QUOTE] I agree fully, always have all this time, my wording was poor, nobody seems to have paid attention to my point though and picked up on the word moderate which I have tried to correct quite a few times already. I stand by on my words that on a scale of NEGATIVE VIOLENT actions, these actions are moderate. We know full well the scale of humanities violent tenancies and closing our eyes and pretending they don't exist and everything is fine is just unscientific, you don't change a measurement scale because counting too high makes you feel uncomfortable. In terms of governance and social stability, national fronts having the occasional clash and violence on a hand weapon street level, is unapologetically moderate.

[QUOTE=Faunze;52736234]I agree fully, always have all this time, my wording was poor, nobody seems to have paid attention to my point though and picked up on the word moderate which I have tried to correct quite a few times already. I stand by on my words that on a scale of NEGATIVE VIOLENT actions, these actions are moderate. We know full well the scale of humanities violent tenancies and closing our eyes and pretending they don't exist and everything is fine is just unscientific, you don't change a measurement scale because counting too high makes you feel uncomfortable. In terms of governance and social stability, national fronts having the occasional clash and violence on a hand weapon street level, is unapologetically moderate.[/QUOTE] Their actions are not moderate. You continue to compare them to others, and that's not how it works. If I kill someone with a knife, and then another guy kills someone else with a gun, that doesn't make me a moderate. Or, perhaps more accurately, just because I failed to kill someone with a knife, but still tried to, does not make me a moderate just because I failed and the guy with the gun didn't.

[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52736260]Their actions are not moderate. You continue to compare them to others, and that's not how it works. If I kill someone with a knife, and then another guy kills someone else with a gun, that doesn't make me a moderate. Or, perhaps more accurately, just because I failed to kill someone with a knife, but still tried to, does not make me a moderate just because I failed and the guy with the gun didn't.[/QUOTE] I guess we just don't see it the same way. I don't see these people as much of an organization in the first place, it has it's core members which should be considered as such, the others however (the majority we see in marches and such) are just a bunch of angry people getting together, a few of those angry people go and stab someone, thus, the entire group are now extremists. The army are rapists, and commit hideous war crimes, and should be dealt with. The government is corrupt, and should be replaced. Muslims are terrorists. At what person count do we stop blanketing every group with the same term and treat individual issues as such? If all members of the EDL were going around stabbing people then yes, we absolutely have a big fucking problem, but they don't, and who knows who is running around calling themselves the EDL with no official affiliation? This can go for literally every group under the sun. Edit: I kind of got sidetracked. You are right, shooting someone and knifing someone are both extreme acts and need to be condemned as such socially, obviously no question to that, I would like to think. On a severity level of fringe groups popping up, a few skirmishes on the street between small groups of people are not severe in my eyes, especially with the infrequency of them. Morality is still morality but that's not what I'm getting at.

[QUOTE=Faunze;52736177]I wasn't necessarily pointing them out as a "moderate" political entity, I was more meaning their overall actions and words are not severe, and seen them more as moderate actions on the scale of lesser to severe, my wording was off, I'll do the right thing and not go back to change it following the discussion but if you've read anything else I've said I'd appreciate it if we wouldn't bite down on it too hard,[/quote] First off you put all muslims into the same unfavorable group and you attribute radicalism and fundamentalism to this entire group. This is wrong. You then attempt to introduce the EDL as rational moderate. Wrong. Upon being called out for this you then backpedal with a "lesser of 2 evils" false dichotomy. Wrong again. [quote]I do still recommend you watch the videos of Tommy though.[/QUOTE] Some of his points are valid, but this is what these people do. They present legit views, even unpopular legit views as a sort of trojan horse for their more radical views and dog whistling. You are doing the same thing here, the discussion is regarding racism ([URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/edl-sikh-manchester-homeless-abuse-volunteers-feeding-english-defence-league-racist-a7787241.html"]yes EDL are racist[/URL]) but you are presenting us with a video about the police state, either hoping people will watch that and then continue to his other videos or hoping that people will agree with that video potentially lending credibility to his other, less rational, views. Are you intentionally trying to mislead people or are you so brainwashed you can't recognise that you're just regurgitating bullshit tricks you were dumb enough to fall for? Legit q Immigration certainly has issues, its not black and white, partly why its so easy to exploit by people like Robinson. People from nearly all ethnic minorities tend stick together and certain ethnic minorities [URL="http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/07/muslims-are-being-held-back-in-the-workplace-because-of-islamophobia-study-finds-6909219/"]tend to be poorer[/URL], poorer people live in poorer areas which hinders integration, lowers the chance of them leaving to integrate elsewhere and increases crime. Immigrants who are poorer tend to have worse education which means they do compete for low skilled jobs (to a degree). [URL="https://www.ft.com/content/dec677c0-b7e6-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62"]Automation[/URL], globalisation and the general economy contribute more to the stagnant wages (please note that nearly all jobs have stagnant wages, even jobs in fields without much immigrant competition) people like Tommy Robinson however would either overlook (making them dumb) or purposefully mislead (making them deceitful) people into thinking the immigration in the only or main cause. So much of the hatred for immigrants on this point is misplaced. Problem is that groups like the EDL and people like you and Robinson serves to exacerbate the issue. Your attitude will drive a wedge between people who want to integrate. IMO xenophobia/general racism is doing more to stop integration and fundamental Islam is. Ooh and a final point, in many cases it is racism, racism has become unpopular recently so people will dogwhistle instead, EDL say they're only against Islam but their thugs attack anybody from an ethnic minority. Go figure.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52736347]First off you put all muslims into the same unfavorable group and you attribute radicalism and fundamentalism to this entire group. This is wrong.[/quote] Please show me where I have done this and I'll gladly leave the thread, these are not my views at all. [quote]You then attempt to introduce the EDL as rational moderate. Wrong. Upon being called out for this you then backpedal with a "lesser of 2 evils" false dichotomy. Wrong again.[/quote] Nope, I've called them a bunch of violent hooligans who are upset at the current state of affairs and taking action in the wrong way. [quote]Are you intentionally trying to mislead people or are you so brainwashed you can't recognise that you're just regurgitating bullshit tricks you were dumb enough to fall for?[/quote] I'll answer a legitimate questions with a legitimate answer. Although I'll have to repeat myself as again you seem to have skimmed over things and went straight for things you didn't like in particular. I trust people on this website to be rational thinkers as we all share the same space, read the same articles and all generally think somewhat alike, or at least have the same thinking and investigation patterns. I have always had a bad habit of trusting people on this website to take my words for somewhat devils advocacy as I am not emotionally invested in almost any issue around the world but they do interest me, I also don't like listening to one side of any story, so yes, I watch both, I know people here will hear EDL and stay away from any video, source or investigation into group with an open mind as they deem it to be bullshit before they even look into it, what I'm saying is the EDL is a symptom of unrest of tens of thousands if not millions of people all over the country that are seeing parts of cities turn to shit. Generally, you guys are coming across as righteous and close minded, if you think for a fucking second I hate anyone on the planet or do not consider their circumstances before I make an assumption on people then you are deathly wrong, but we are speaking about a large societal issue and it should be fucking debated. AGAIN, I have not endorsed the EDL, I don't support them, I don't support any racist group, in fact I will combat it heavily. Which in fact is what I'm doing right now, however apparently the extremist muslims which are MANY in the UK are unfortunately hands off, because if I speak about the ones that don't kill people yet, I'm a bad guy. You are rendering yourself blind on issues that are massive and sweeping across Europe because you want to be PC, so you only read articles that are playing down one side and raising the other up. This isn't even about immigration, this isn't about nationalism.

Does anyone have a link to the actual study? All this article gives is the vague statement "some races or ethnic groups are born less intelligent". It surely involves some amount of ignorant people saying yes because of racial prejudices, but it's actually a true statement. I'd like to see the exact questions that were asked. [QUOTE=Dr.Critic;52735247]unless you're going to make a constructive point about anthropology/history and how that relates to geography, that statement is horseshit[/QUOTE] I don't understand what you're getting at. We get no context about the study from this article. For all we know, the poll was a single question "Do you believe that some races and ethnic groups are born less intelligent" to which the answer [I]is yes[/I]. It would be easier to say "26% of brits admit to being racist" if we actually knew what was asked.

[QUOTE=GordonZombie;52731838]Unfortunately this is probably closer to the truth than I'd like to admit. Consciously or sub-consciously people harbour some form of xenophobic sentiment or bias.[/QUOTE] They are afraid of their culture changing because of excess immigration which is possible, just look at what happens to a lot of native cultures when there is an influx of immigrants who don't assimilate to the native culture.