If you collect guns with no intention of using them can't they just be deactivated
[QUOTE=James*;36962598]If you collect guns with no intention of using them can't they just be deactivated[/QUOTE]
If I'm paying money for something, I want the full product.
[QUOTE=James*;36962565]But crime is eradicated in high gun areas?
And I'd say explosives are less dangerous as they involve premeditation, it's quite hard to kill someone with explosives accidentally or on impulse[/QUOTE]
It's certainly a lot lower. Explosives may have less potential for single murders, but for a massacre like the theater, they are far more dangerous in my mind.
[url]http://www.handgundefense.com/facts.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=Marbalo;36962648]The fact that some people might have to give up their little hobby for a chance to possibly deter crime and murder even [I]a little[/I], is enough reason to enact a more strict gun control system.
The retarded "IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION!!!" argument people use it absurd. So what? Have you ever thought about the possibility it may be an outdated law system that has some compatibility issues with modern times? It was created with militia in mind, you aren't fucking militia. You are mere gun enthusiasts.
Just because you think gun laws won't stop murders from happening is irrelevant. You should at least [I]try [/I]to deter it, by any means possible, not throw your hands in the air and go "nope, wont work lol".
Are you honestly telling me you would rather have a nation full of civilian gun owners, and you would somehow feel "safe", than a nation who puts weapons in the hands of capable and trained government employees like the police and military? Give me a break, your entire argument can be summed up with "I like guns, dont ban them".[/QUOTE]
Apparently you missed the whole "criminals don't follow gun laws" point. Why take guns from innocent people who own them to protect themselves against nutjobs that want to kill people? Just shut up with the anti-gun horse shit.
[QUOTE=faze;36962665]Apparently you missed the whole "criminals don't follow gun laws" point. Why take guns from innocent people who own them to protect themselves against nutjobs that want to kill people? Just shut up with the anti-gun horse shit.[/QUOTE]
criminals don't follow laws (which is why they're criminals)
you could apply that argument in favor of literally any law
gun control won't stop massacres or violent crime, but it will reduce them
[QUOTE=Marbalo;36962648]The fact that some people might have to give up their little hobby for a chance to possibly deter crime and murder even [I]a little[/I], is enough reason to enact a more strict gun control system.
The retarded "IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION!!!" argument people use it absurd. So what? Have you ever thought about the possibility it may be an outdated law system that has some compatibility issues with modern times? It was created with militia in mind, you aren't fucking militia. You are mere gun enthusiasts.
Just because you think gun laws won't stop murders from happening is irrelevant. You should at least [I]try [/I]to deter it, by any means possible, not throw your hands in the air and go "nope, wont work lol".
Are you honestly telling me you would rather have a nation full of civilian gun owners, and you would somehow feel "safe", than a nation who puts weapons in the hands of capable and trained government employees like the police and military? Give me a break, your entire argument can be summed up with "I like guns, dont ban them".[/QUOTE]
If the government were to amend the constitution it would be one thing, but that's not likely to happen.
The fact is police are not everywhere, and never will be, and the military is not a police force.
Perhaps you should read my link above: [quote]For every accidental death, suicide, or homicide with a firearm, 10 lives are saved through defensive use[/quote]
[QUOTE=Marbalo;36962648]The fact that some people might have to give up their little hobby for a chance to possibly deter crime and murder even [I]a little[/I], is enough reason to enact a more strict gun control system.
The retarded "IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION!!!" argument people use it absurd. So what? Have you ever thought about the possibility it may be an outdated law system that has some compatibility issues with modern times? It was created with militia in mind, you aren't fucking militia. You are mere gun enthusiasts.
Just because you think gun laws won't stop murders from happening is irrelevant. You should at least [I]try [/I]to deter it, by any means possible, not throw your hands in the air and go "nope, wont work lol".
Are you honestly telling me you would rather have a nation full of civilian gun owners, and you would somehow feel "safe", than a nation who puts weapons in the hands of capable and trained government employees like the police and military? Give me a break, your entire argument can be summed up with "I like guns, dont ban them".[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GunFox;36952813]And in the United States, they mostly just stay home and don't rob people.
Again, in spite of every societal factor suggesting a greater amount of robbery, the United States ultimately sports fewer victims of robbery.
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rob_vic-crime-robbery-victims[/url]
Or if we want to be much more general:
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_vic-crime-total-victims[/url]
Overall there are fewer victims in the United States. Again, despite sporting a thousand reasons for MORE VICTIMS, we have FEWER VICTIMS.
What is different? The population is armed.
This isn't to say that arming the population is some magic bullet, as solving your underlying issues tends to do the job far better, but it doesn't work like you think it does.
EDIT:
And just to backup dacommie:
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims[/url]
We also sport less rape victims by a significant margin. Again, we aren't doing well as a nation. We should statistically have more. AND YET WE HAVE LESS.
America isn't some massive crime riddled nation.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=elevator13;36962688]criminals don't follow laws (which is why they're criminals)
you could apply that argument in favor of literally any law
gun control won't stop massacres or violent crime, but it will reduce them[/QUOTE]
It's already been proven in states that allow open carry or allow people to carry guns, that crime rates are lower. Who wants to attack somebody that could be armed? If they want to, they're the newest Darwin Awards winner.
[QUOTE=James*;36962598]If you collect guns with no intention of using them can't they just be deactivated[/QUOTE]
What about all those people with sports cars in the world? Whats the chance they will really ever "use" them and go over 100mph? They pose more of a threat to people with their accidental usage too, and are very dangerous in the hands of a fleeing criminal! We should make Sports Cars illegal as well as theirs no need for them, or make collectors take out the engines.
[QUOTE=elevator13;36962688]criminals don't follow laws (which is why they're criminals)
you could apply that argument in favor of literally any law
gun control won't stop massacres or violent crime, but it will reduce them[/QUOTE]
This is simply not true, gun ownership reduces far more crime than is creates.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;36962648]The fact that some people might have to give up their little hobby for a chance to possibly deter crime and murder even [I]a little[/I], is enough reason to enact a more strict gun control system.
The retarded "IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION!!!" argument people use it absurd. So what? Have you ever thought about the possibility it may be an outdated law system that has some compatibility issues with modern times? It was created with militia in mind, you aren't fucking militia. You are mere gun enthusiasts.
Just because you think gun laws won't stop murders from happening is irrelevant. You should at least [I]try [/I]to deter it, by any means possible, not throw your hands in the air and go "nope, wont work lol".
Are you honestly telling me you would rather have a nation full of civilian gun owners, and you would somehow feel "safe", than a nation who puts weapons in the hands of capable and trained government employees like the police and military? Give me a break, your entire argument can be summed up with "I like guns, dont ban them".[/QUOTE]
The police can't be everywhere at all times, they can't assure the personal safety of every single person on the country, the only thing that can is the person itself and the only way that person can possibly defend itself from someone with a gun is by owning a gun.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;36962731]Sorry Im going to take a site called handgundefense.com seriously.
You might as well link me a thetruthabout911.com and present it as evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.handgundefense.com/images/Crime-Chart.jpg[/img]
Source:[url]http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245[/url]
Yall should go watch Bowling for Columbine. Quite relevant to the gun control issue. And when I say watch it, i mean the whole thing because it isn't anti-gun
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;36962761]The police can't be everywhere at all times, they can't assure the personal safety of every single person on the country, the only thing that can is the person itself and the only way that person can possibly defend itself from someone with a gun is by owning a gun.[/QUOTE]
Yup, if you're in a life or death situation you have seconds to save your life...
[QUOTE=Marbalo;36962771]Cars actually have a shitload of other uses.
Guns are only designed to kill.[/QUOTE]
By that argument sports car are only designed to be driven at their maximum speed.
[QUOTE=faze;36961612]Source: [url]http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/27/authorities-thwart-alleged-mass-shooting-plot-in-maryland-seize-arsenal-weapons/[/url]
[url]http://crofton.patch.com/articles/crofton-man-identified-as-potential-mass-shooter[/url]
[url]www.wbal.com/article/92372/2/Reports-Police-Thwart-Mass-Shooting-Plot-In-Anne-Arundel[/url]
Ugh. People suck.[/QUOTE]
He has made "threats" and had alot of weapons. Has it actually been proven that he was going to shoot up his workplace?
The arguments that have happened and will continue to happen are as follow.
People who are against banning guns will think that those for banning guns are stupid.
People who are for banning guns will think that those against banning guns are stupid.
We've repeated the same argument(s) for an entire page.
Let's look at it this way: Gun control does not solve the issue at hand. It only puts a band-aide on the gaping wound that is the remnants of our national mental health system that existed before Reagan took his hacksaw to it.
Essentially, we need a far better mental health system in place than we have now to prevent this sort of thing, and we need improved communication between schools, teachers, law enforcement agencies, and mental health officials. We need a system where, if you suspect someone of being truly mentally ill, or who may present a threat to anyone around them, you can address the situation as needed. Right now, that's not really possible.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;36962617]If I'm paying money for something, I want the full product.[/QUOTE]
Yeah totally worth 80 gun deaths a day
[QUOTE=ewitwins;36962871]Let's look at it this way: Gun control does not solve the issue at hand. It only puts a band-aide on the gaping wound that is the remnants of our national mental health system that existed before Reagan took his hacksaw to it.
Essentially, we need a far better mental health system in place than we have now to prevent this sort of thing, and we need improved communication between schools, teachers, law enforcement agencies, and mental health officials. We need a system where, if you suspect someone of being truly mentally ill, or who may present a threat to anyone around them, you can address the situation as needed. Right now, that's not really possible.[/QUOTE]
But but but I'm a liberal and guns are scary to me! Only police and military should own guns!
In a perfect world there would be no violent use for guns, and depending on who you ask there would be no guns, but as it is the U.S. is unlikely to change much.
[QUOTE=BurningPlayd0h;36962778][img]http://www.handgundefense.com/images/Crime-Chart.jpg[/img]
Source:[url]http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=dcdetail&iid=245[/url][/QUOTE]
in terms of gun homicide rate, the US is 7x the amount of the next-worst developed country, Canada ([url]http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/statistics/Homicide/Homicides_by_firearms.xls[/url])
also, pirates prevent global warming
[img]http://www.venganza.org/images/PiratesVsTemp.png[/img]
[QUOTE=faze;36962918]But but but I'm a liberal and guns are scary to me! Only police and military should own guns![/QUOTE]
I'm a raging liberal and I support gun ownership. "Liberal" traditionally means favoring less stringent laws. Apparently it only relates to political parties now.
People really need to stop trying to make comparisons to cars, cars are not designed to kill people
And yet the show goes on.
And the supposed right to carry/reduced crime statistics are not credible, far too many other factors to consider
This country was founded on individuality and rights to everyone, its not a new concept but those in America have some odd pride about it and how we are a truly free part of the modern world. Making guns harder to own just creates a division in this country that doesn't help anything. We should be looking at what ewitwins said, obvious gaps in our countries ability to be a service to its individuals. Mental Health is in the crapper and so is the prison system, that's what needs to be fixed.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;36963002]Except that's completely irrelevant to the subject.
I can just show you that the US has a massive homicide rate and slap a "rising purchase of handguns" graph on top of it, and tell you that more handgun selling is what's causing most deaths.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=GunFox;36952813]And in the United States, they mostly just stay home and don't rob people.
Again, in spite of every societal factor suggesting a greater amount of robbery, the United States ultimately sports fewer victims of robbery.
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rob_vic-crime-robbery-victims[/url]
Or if we want to be much more general:
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_vic-crime-total-victims[/url]
Overall there are fewer victims in the United States. Again, despite sporting a thousand reasons for MORE VICTIMS, we have FEWER VICTIMS.
What is different? The population is armed.
This isn't to say that arming the population is some magic bullet, as solving your underlying issues tends to do the job far better, but it doesn't work like you think it does.
EDIT:
And just to backup dacommie:
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims[/url]
We also sport less rape victims by a significant margin. Again, we aren't doing well as a nation. We should statistically have more. AND YET WE HAVE LESS.
America isn't some massive crime riddled nation.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to keep posting this till you actually look at it.
So, what do our arguments have to do with the OP anymore?
[QUOTE=Resfan;36963046]So, what do our arguments have to do with the OP anymore?[/QUOTE] As one man once said... Jack shit, captain.
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