Copyright Board of Canada recently approved new fees to play recorded music at large gatherings, inc - Polidicks

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36188787]Yea, so make it so artists can't sell music at all. That will really make them rich. oh wait that only works if ur using imaginary money[/QUOTE] You do know that most artists signed to major labels recieve 3-6 cents per album? That depending on contract studio time is limited or ends up being charged for? Or that some just won't market your music very well or almost full out ignore you? That if you don't have a clever and expensive lawyer the complicated legalese in the contracts is just fully out of your grasp? Like fuck. Are you calling anyone else naive here? Seriously? There's also the fact that if you learn ProTools on your own, you can easily pull off what a studio was required for years ago. The industry is dying, but music is still going to be around, it'll just find a new way to become profitable.

[QUOTE=Bobie;36188783]studio time is pretty cheap, you just won't get top of the line equipment (which you generally don't need anyway), and from previous knowledge of distributors that too is incredibly cheap as well. record labels are important yes, but not the majors you are thinking of, and if your music needs 'marketing' then the chances are your music is going to be the sexual manifestation of a fantasy dream held by sweaty businessmen ala katy perry or 12 year old girls ala justin bieber.[/quote] Studio time is incredibly expensive for most artists. Usually between $50-$200 an hour, and often times many sessions need to be made to complete a project. That's just the recording process as well. Mixing and mastering have their own studios which also vary in price and quality. And all music can benefit from marketing. Marketing is very important, otherwise nobody knows when your album is going to be released, no one is going to know when you next perform your show, and your ability to attract a new audience is severely limited. You know that radio play is part of marketing and promotion as well, right? Marketing is not what you think it is, judging by your prejudice against it. [quote]i'm pretty sure alot of big artists that are out there, such as skrillex, chase and status, nero etc have little to no record label ties other than for releases.[/QUOTE] I'm not familiar with chase and status, but nero and skrillex are both electronic artists, which makes recording and distribution of music a much easier task. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;36188830]You do know that most artists signed to major labels recieve 3-6 cents per album? That depending on contract studio time is limited or ends up being charged for? Or that some just won't market your music very well or almost full out ignore you? That if you don't have a clever and expensive lawyer the complicated legalese in the contracts is just fully out of your grasp? Like fuck. Are you calling anyone else naive here? Seriously?[/QUOTE] You do know that record sales correlates with concert sales, right? When an artist makes little money from record sales it is generally made up with larger profits from performance. You guys sure pretend to know an awful lot about the music industry considering all of you obviously have no experience in or with the music industry.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36188845]Studio time is incredibly expensive for most artists. Usually between $50-$200 an hour, and often times many sessions need to be made to complete a project. That's just the recording process as well. Mixing and mastering have their own studios which also vary in price and quality. And all music can benefit from marketing. Marketing is very important, otherwise nobody knows when your album is going to be released, no one is going to know when you next perform your show, and your ability to attract a new audience is severely limited. You know that radio play is part of marketing and promotion as well, right? Marketing is not what you think it is, judging by your prejudice against it. I'm not familiar with chase and status, but nero and skrillex are both electronic artists, which makes recording and distribution of music a much easier task.[/QUOTE] mixing and mastering is also cheap. i've seen it be as cheap as £20 for a single song, or £10 an hour, and as for electronic artists, if you're not going down the yarr harr route the samples, synths and DAWs can cost between £500-1000, which is more than enough for a group of bandmates to pitch together and pay for studio time. i know very few successful artists that have had true marketing behind them, if you're talking about promotions, TV ads etc that's generally only applicable for a select few artists, there are thousands of bands, djs, vocalists out there who make enough money to live on and tour around the world who have never had their face plastered over VEVO- a vast majority of the time the quality of music is your only form of promotion. and in the UK radio play is [I]entirely[/I] based off of the quality of music, not how much cash you have to offer. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] also where did you get the figures of 50 dollars to 200 an hour for studio time? i've seen studios go for £100 a day with a producer sitting by mixing down the track and mastering it as it goes along.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36188845]Studio time is incredibly expensive for most artists. Usually between $50-$200 an hour, and often times many sessions need to be made to complete a project. That's just the recording process as well. Mixing and mastering have their own studios which also vary in price and quality. And all music can benefit from marketing. Marketing is very important, otherwise nobody knows when your album is going to be released, no one is going to know when you next perform your show, and your ability to attract a new audience is severely limited. You know that radio play is part of marketing and promotion as well, right? Marketing is not what you think it is, judging by your prejudice against it. I'm not familiar with chase and status, but nero and skrillex are both electronic artists, which makes recording and distribution of music a much easier task. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] You do know that record sales correlates with concert sales, right? When an artist makes little money from record sales it is generally made up with larger profits from performance. You guys sure pretend to know an awful lot about the music industry considering all of you obviously have no experience in or with the music industry.[/QUOTE] I never talked about live shows because you didn't bring it up before. Why am I "Stupid" because I didn't just throw it into a conversation without needing to? Yes, they make their money off of merch sales, performance sales, gigs and other events. Good job assuming more things than you could need to in such a short period of time.

[QUOTE=Bobie;36188889]mixing and mastering is also cheap. i've seen it be as cheap as £20 for a single song, or £10 an hour, and as for electronic artists, if you're not going down the yarr harr route the samples, synths and DAWs can cost between £500-1000, which is more than enough for a group of bandmates to pitch together and pay for studio time.[/quote] Those are costs you only have to pay for once, though. Studio time is something that has varying, sometimes less than predictable costs because it is wholly dependent on how much progress is made in a single session. Also, where the fuck are you finding mastering for that cheap? That might apply if you are a mastering engineer, and have a discount on room rental, but to hire a mastering engineer plus the room usually costs upwards of $50 for an hour. [quote]i know very few successful artists that have had true marketing behind them, if you're talking about promotions, TV ads etc that's generally only applicable for a select few artists, there are thousands of bands, djs, vocalists out there who make enough money to live on and tour around the world who have never had their face plastered over VEVO- a vast majority of the time the quality of music is your only form of promotion.[/quote] You are thinking too simplistically. Marketing and promotions are way deeper than just VEVO and TV. Like I said before, Radio is important, posters, interviews, benefit shows, etc. all require connections that record labels cultivate for the benefit of the artist. It isn't impossible to promote your show on your own, but it requires you to have an obscene amount of connections, or a promoter which costs money anyways. [quote]and in the UK radio play is [i]entirely[/i] based off of the quality of music, not how much cash you have to offer.[/QUOTE] I somewhat doubt that. In the USA record labels have deals with various stations that allow artists to get more air time. Outright buying time on the radio is illegal IIRC, but there are various ways around those laws.

[QUOTE=Bobie;36188889] also where did you get the figures of 50 dollars to 200 an hour for studio time? i've seen studios go for £100 a day with a producer sitting by mixing down the track and mastering it as it goes along.[/QUOTE] He got them from his ass and he generalized it to apply to everywhere, because he knows everywhere

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;36188909]I never talked about live shows because you didn't bring it up before. Why am I "Stupid" because I didn't just throw it into a conversation without needing to? Yes, they make their money off of merch sales, performance sales, gigs and other events. Good job assuming more things than you could need to in such a short period of time.[/QUOTE] Yea I did, bad reader. Anyways, I'm talking about making profit as a whole whereas you were only looking at record sales, which is pretty short-sighted.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;36188974]He got them from his ass and he generalized it to apply to everywhere, because he knows everywhere[/QUOTE] These are rates for real studios that I've either used or helped in.

How expensive a record is nowadays doesn't amount to how it will be perceived by the public. Not that it matters anyway because technically the "popular" music industry is turning into shreds because people realise just how much is out there.

Also, we might be confusing ourselves with our conversions. $100 is not equal to 100 pounds. 100 pounds is $150, which is a significant amount of money. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] And that's per day, which doesn't tell me how long of a session it is...at all. Or what quality the studio is.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36188967]Those are costs you only have to pay for once, though. Studio time is something that has varying, sometimes less than predictable costs because it is wholly dependent on how much progress is made in a single session. Also, where the fuck are you finding mastering for that cheap? That might apply if you are a mastering engineer, and have a discount on room rental, but to hire a mastering engineer plus the room usually costs upwards of $50 for an hour. You are thinking too simplistically. Marketing and promotions are way deeper than just VEVO and TV. Like I said before, Radio is important, posters, interviews, benefit shows, etc. all require connections that record labels cultivate for the benefit of the artist. It isn't impossible to promote your show on your own, but it requires you to have an obscene amount of connections, or a promoter which costs money anyways. I somewhat doubt that. In the USA record labels have deals with various stations that allow artists to get more air time. Outright buying time on the radio is illegal IIRC, but there are various ways around those laws.[/QUOTE] promoters don't cost money they take money from your live shows. and i see those prices on a regular basis because i know several audio engineers, i've had mastering done for free in the price in the past as well for promotional purposes, because it's a rather easy thing to do (if you know how) and doesn't take long at all. (unless you're mastering for vinyl) shows such as the BBC don't handle their music directly through the organization itself by the way, they do it through their hosts and DJs, who generally hand pick the music for each show themselves. i've [I]NEVER[/I] heard of any of the djs getting paid to put a show on the radio because most of the time you'd be able to hear the differences in taste and style, not to mention the fact they'd get a load of shit for it if it ever did happen. living in the US must be some horrible musical dystopia from your description. a day is generally 12 hours by the way.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36188977]Yea I did, bad reader. Anyways, I'm talking about making profit as a whole whereas you were only looking at record sales, which is pretty short-sighted.[/QUOTE] This entire arguement is about record sales and companies. And now it's about your disregard for people who make music independantly.

Soon people are going to start copyrighting the oxygen coming from the trees on one's property.

[QUOTE=Bobie;36189027]promoters don't cost money they take money from your live shows. and i see those prices on a regular basis because i know several audio engineers, i've had mastering done for free in the price in the past as well for promotional purposes, because it's a rather easy thing to do (if you know how) and doesn't take long at all. (unless you're mastering for vinyl) shows such as the BBC don't handle their music directly through the organization itself by the way, they do it through their hosts and DJs, who generally hand pick the music for each show themselves. i've [I]NEVER[/I] heard of any of the djs getting paid to put a show on the radio because most of the time you'd be able to hear the differences in taste and style, not to mention the fact they'd get a load of shit for it if it ever did happen. living in the US must be some horrible musical dystopia from your description. a day is generally 12 hours by the way.[/QUOTE] All of these things are similar in the US. The problem is that these things are not overtly done. It's like voter fraud or corruption, it's all done without it being very noticeable. Anyways, a promoter DOES cost money if you are not an established artist. [QUOTE=AK'z;36189030]This entire arguement is about record sales and companies. And now it's about your disregard for people who make music independantly.[/QUOTE] Most artists aren't independent for a reason. It's hard to make music independently and it involves too much work that isn't involved in the artistic process itself. If you can make money independently, go for it. However, it's easier if you sign yourself to a minor record label that isn't affiliated with one of the big guys. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] And by the way I know audio engineers in all stages of music production as well. I also know people who have worked in record labels, as well as being educated in how record labels and the music industry runs as a whole.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36189067]All of these things are similar in the US. The problem is that these things are not overtly done. It's like voter fraud or corruption, it's all done without it being very noticeable. Anyways, a promoter DOES cost money if you are not an established artist. Most artists aren't independent for a reason. It's hard to make music independently and it involves too much work that isn't involved in the artistic process itself. If you can make money independently, go for it. However, it's easier if you sign yourself to a minor record label that isn't affiliated with one of the big guys. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] And by the way I know audio engineers in all stages of music production as well. I also know people who have worked in record labels, as well as being educated in how record labels and the music industry runs as a whole.[/QUOTE] i'll be bloody dissapointed if there is that kindof corruption going on in radio. best radio to listen to is pirate radio anyway, i generally stay away from the major radio players like the BBC unless its late night bbc for dance music and stuff the best thing to do today is to just hop between helpful, small labels and try not to tie yourself up in a long term deal that can cause you harm.

[QUOTE=Bobie;36189127]i'll be bloody dissapointed if there is that kindof corruption going on in radio. best radio to listen to is pirate radio anyway, i generally stay away from the major radio players like the BBC unless its late night bbc for dance music and stuff the best thing to do today is to just hop between helpful, small labels and try not to tie yourself up in a long term deal that can cause you harm.[/QUOTE] I want you to note as well that I'm not defending companies like Interscope, or the RIAA. I would prefer if the music industry had more room for smaller record labels. There are plenty of legitimate record labels out there, but they tend to get bought up by the conglomerates.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36188977]Yea I did, bad reader. Anyways, I'm talking about making profit as a whole whereas you were only looking at record sales, which is pretty short-sighted.[/QUOTE] Up until now no. It was about studio rates and money made from record sales. You can tell yourself whatever you like.

How the fuck do you enforce this shit?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;36189168]Up until now no. It was about studio rates and money made from record sales. You can tell yourself whatever you like.[/QUOTE] [quote=me]Depends on the contract, not all contracts are equal. Generally, however, a record label takes most music sales and leaves concert sales relatively untouched. Therefore, a CD can be seen as a promotion for concerts and shows, where the artist truly profits. This "promotion" is taken care of by the record label who makes money off of this deal as well. This is a symbiotic relationship at best. [/quote] Look at the top of the page, bad reader. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] Actually shortly before halfway through the page, but long before you started commenting. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] Not this page, though. Page 2.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36189161]I want you to note as well that I'm not defending companies like Interscope, or the RIAA. I would prefer if the music industry had more room for smaller record labels. There are plenty of legitimate record labels out there, but they tend to get bought up by the conglomerates.[/QUOTE] well my original point, (albeit poorly articulated) was that the middleman is slowly getting cut out of the creative process of music, manufactured bands die out faster than ever these days and now you have a much greater chance of reaching the top if you don't want to associate yourself with a major label

[QUOTE=OhHello;36189175]How the fuck do you enforce this shit?[/QUOTE] They won't except in a few cases. Similar to piracy where they basically pick one out of a million to actually enforce the rules on in order to intimidate everyone else. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Bobie;36189190]well my original point, (albeit poorly articulated) was that the middleman is slowly getting cut out of the creative process of music, manufactured bands die out faster than ever these days and now you have a much greater chance of reaching the top if you don't want to associate yourself with a major label[/QUOTE] This is true, and definitely good. In fact, the record label model may have to significantly change in the coming years or decades because the way music is distributed and promoted is rapidly changing. I'm just saying that record labels still serve an important function, even though there are a few companies(that control most of the market) who completely fuck over their clients. [editline]4th June 2012[/editline] The idea of the record label isn't bad, it's the implementation by the people who are most powerful that is.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36189067] And by the way I know audio engineers in all stages of music production as well. I also know people who have worked in record labels, as well as being educated in how record labels and the music industry runs as a whole.[/QUOTE] You know people in the business. Big deal. What about the people who have been signed? How do they feel? No "education" will teach you how these people endure money only driven people.

[QUOTE=AK'z;36189450]You know people in the business. Big deal. What about the people who have been signed? How do they feel? No "education" will teach you how these people endure money only driven people.[/QUOTE] Are you one of these people? If not, then I don't see how you have any more authority on this than I do.

who gives a fuck what these asswipes say, ill play whatever the fuck I want at my gatherings, and I'll dance till the lawyers kill themselves.

We still have 3 more years of this retarded conservative government. God damnit.

I misread the title and I tought it was about people who played Boards of Canada at weddings

I'm really glad the the record business is dying out, since it means that bands will earn a ton more money than they do under that outdated system. The only problem is bullshit like this that comes out of the labels trying to claw everybody down with them.

Looks like someone can't get enough bites into his mouth. If this go out of hand those guys will never ever see a penny in the future; Simply because no one wants to buy their crap anymore. But that's just utopic.

[QUOTE=AK'z;36188781]you're right. Artists get a fair share and music companies are very friendly with how they make money. Also, my red pen is actually blue.[/QUOTE] Yes. Royal blue.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36189642]Are you one of these people? If not, then I don't see how you have any more authority on this than I do.[/QUOTE] Why do you now think this is about authority? Are you purposefully being a douche? Wake up and look at the real world. People fuck other people over because they care more about money than making people feel good.