[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44562640]Because the paradox is that when you have less legal guns on the streets, you'll have more homemade or illegally imported guns on the streets. :v:[/QUOTE]
Except you don't see that anywhere. No place that has banned guns somehow has more guns than the united states.
See: The rest of the developed world.
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Aman;44562645]The idea that banning guns will counter some super minute specific scenario that may or may not happen anyway.
"It's worth banning guns if it saves just 1 life!"[/QUOTE]
Except it's not just 1 life, it's tens of thousands of lives. The united states has the highest gun death rate per capita of the developed world.
"I want to have fun, I don't care about the thousands of people that die each year from guns" are you a psychopath?
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44562654]Except you don't see that anywhere. No place that has banned guns somehow has more guns than the united states.
See: The rest of the developed world.[/QUOTE]
What do you consider developed world.
Also, [I]anywhere?[/I]
How about Brazil where they outright had a nationwide vote to totally and utterly ban all private ownership of firearms, but yet crime and murder is rampant and people sell .38 revolvers strung up on street stalls like they are pretzels.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44562654]Except you don't see that anywhere. No place that has banned guns somehow has more guns than the united states.
See: The rest of the developed world.[/QUOTE]
That's not the point I'm making. The point is that when you limit legal firearms, such as semi-autos or single shots, you increase the amount of already illegal firearms, such as automatics. The era we are stepping into is an era where people have vast amounts of knowledge at their disposal, and such knowledge is used to make money for ones self.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;44561802]I'll never understand America's or this forum obsession with guns tbh and I just thank my luck that I was born in a country where this shit is not tolerated
[/QUOTE]
I'll explain it in as few words as I can:
Firing ranges are assloads of fun!
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44562654]Except you don't see that anywhere. No place that has banned guns somehow has more guns than the united states.
See: The rest of the developed world.
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
Except it's not just 1 life, it's tens of thousands of lives. The united states has the highest gun death rate per capita of the developed world.
"I want to have fun, I don't care about the thousands of people that die each year from guns" are you a psychopath?[/QUOTE]
Cute putting words in my mouth that's a great way to argue.
You also imply that these thousands of people die each year from guns wouldn't have died if some magic gun ban happened. How is this is anyway grounded in reality? Just throwing a dart in the dark but I can bet even half of those deaths are gang crime related.
I put the right to self defense above all (not above other rights, you get what I'm saying). I don't think some up in the air "maybe a few people might not die" reasoning is worth sacrificing a right that should be sacred.
[QUOTE=Aman;44562669]What do you consider developed world.
Also, [I]anywhere?[/I]
How about Brazil where they outright had a nationwide vote to totally and utterly ban all private ownership of firearms, but yet crime and murder is rampant and people sell .38 revolvers strung up on street stalls like they are pretzels.[/QUOTE]
Developed world has a pretty clearcut definition.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country[/url]
Brazil isn't a developed country, and Brazil didn't ban all guns. Plus Brazil is a shithole, North Korea could ban all guns but that wouldn't make it a nice place.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Brazil[/url]
[QUOTE=OvB;44562104]I would say they're designed to kill "things." What that thing is, is up to the user.[/QUOTE]
Which, in my case, has been armies upon armies of paper :v:
Evil bastards, a tree killed my grandpappy!
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44562689]Developed world has a pretty clearcut definition.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country[/URL]
Brazil isn't a developed country, and Brazil didn't ban all guns. Plus Brazil is a shithole, North Korea could ban all guns but that wouldn't make it a nice place.
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Brazil[/URL][/QUOTE]
I didn't say the vote was successful did I? Humorously like 1/3 of the population still voted yes to outright ban all firearms. Not like it really mattered anyway guns may as well be prohibited there considering how difficult it is to follow legal means to obtain one.
And I'm gonna have to pull out the old beaten dead horse of Switzerland. How can Switzerland not have US like crime statistics? Wait are you trying to tell me that a physical object isn't the underlying social issue?
[QUOTE=Aman;44562686]Cute putting words in my mouth that's a great way to argue.
You also imply that these thousands of people die each year from guns wouldn't have died if some magic gun ban happened. How is this is anyway grounded in reality? Just throwing a dart in the dark but I can bet even half of those deaths are gang crime related.
I put the right to self defense above all (not above other rights, you get what I'm saying). I don't think some up in the air "maybe a few people might not die" reasoning is worth sacrificing a right that should be sacred.[/QUOTE]
If the United states had the same population and gun crime rate as Canada, you would have 20 thousand less gun deaths, each year. Just some numbers, you know.
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Aman;44562712]I didn't say the vote was successful did I? Humorously like 1/3 of the population still voted yes to outright ban all firearms. Not like it really mattered anyway guns may as well be prohibited there considering how difficult it is to follow legal means to obtain one.[/QUOTE]
Okay so why bring it up? It got voted down, Brazil wants gun crime and so it gets gun crime.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44562722]
It got voted down, Brazil wants gun crime and so it gets gun crime.[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously saying not banning all guns is them inviting gun crime? Or are you just joking around here cause that is a really stupid statement.
[QUOTE=Aman;44562669]How about Brazil where they outright had a nationwide vote to totally and utterly ban all private ownership of firearms, but yet crime and murder is rampant and people sell .38 revolvers strung up on street stalls like they are pretzels.[/QUOTE]
i don't think you have any idea what you're talking about
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44562757]i don't think you have any idea what you're talking about[/QUOTE]
So what do you have to bring to the table? I can't really address a counter argument of "No you're wrong".
And yes I know Brazil has a massive wealth gap and a lot of crime is situated in impoverished areas. And I got that revolver story from a Brazilian who I play games with who saw it first hand.
[QUOTE=Aman;44562783]So what do you have to bring to the table? I can't really address a counter argument of "No you're wrong".
And yes I know Brazil has a massive wealth gap and a lot of crime is situated in impoverished areas. And I got that revolver story from a Brazilian who I play games with who saw it first hand.[/QUOTE]
"some kid on the internet told me a story"
always with the solid argument aman lmao
[QUOTE=Aman;44562783]So what do you have to bring to the table? I can't really address a counter argument of "No you're wrong".
And yes I know Brazil has a massive wealth gap and a lot of crime is situated in impoverished areas. And I got that revolver story from a Brazilian who I play games with who saw it first hand.[/QUOTE]
and this one guy told me he punched a shark once, must be true
[QUOTE=NoDachi;44562798]"some kid on the internet told me a story"
always with the solid argument aman lmao[/QUOTE]
Okay so let's say he's 100% lying then, I personally don't see why he would lie to me but okay. Does that mean guns aren't ridiculously abundant in Brazil and they are easy to obtain?
I live in fucking cheery polite Canada and I can contact 2 different (independent of each other) people right now who could get me an illegal handgun for cash, I can just imagine how easy it is in Brazil.
and this is why anecdotal evidence is the weakest kids
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;44562800]and this one guy told me he punched a shark once, must be true[/QUOTE]
Okay I concede my anecdotal story shouldn't be used as an argument. I was using it more as an example of rampant guns in Brazil, a fact that is impossible to argue against.
I still ask you to bring something to the table though...
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;44562722]If the United states had the same population and gun crime rate as Canada, you would have 20 thousand less gun deaths, each year.
[/QUOTE]
So....I agree with your argument overall but that statement just makes no sense.
If this country had the same population and same crime rate, there would be less crimes?
Surely, same population and same crime per capita = the same overall?
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;44562604]Guns weren't designed to kill people? It's a weapon, what do you think people design and build weapons for?[/QUOTE]
If I use a baseball bat to kill someone, it's also a weapon. Does that mean that baseball bats were designed and built to kill people?
You're trying to blame an inanimate object for the illegal acts that are done with it. It's like saying computers were designed for piracy.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44563006]If I use a baseball bat to kill someone, it's also a weapon. Does that mean that baseball bats were designed and built to kill people?
You're trying to blame an inanimate object for the illegal acts that are done with it. It's like saying computers were designed for piracy.[/QUOTE]
Objects have specific designs to do something, that doesn't mean that they can't be used to kill but that doesn't mean that they were made to kill. A car can kill people but it wasn't created with that purpose. A gun's purpose IS to kill. You're finding the most bullshit excuses.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;44563006]If I use a baseball bat to kill someone, it's also a weapon. Does that mean that baseball bats were designed and built to kill people?
You're trying to blame an inanimate object for the illegal acts that are done with it. It's like saying computers were designed for piracy.[/QUOTE]
No, it really doesn't. Holy shit this is not hard to work the fuck out.
Guns are weapons, a tool designed with destruction as its [B]only[/B] purpose (using a gun as a hammer seems like a great way to ruin both the gun and yourself). Baseballs are built as a tool to play a sport. Their design has no destructive intent, however it can be re-purposed as a destructive tool if the user wishes (much like a gun can be re-purposed as a sports tool if the user wishes).
Don't even try arguing "but, but...THEY'RE TOOLS!" as it's a meaningless argument, the intent of their design and the entire history of the tool is important as it gives context to the tool.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;44563053]Objects have specific designs to do something, that doesn't mean that they can't be used to kill but that doesn't mean that they were made to kill. A car can kill people but it wasn't created with that purpose. A gun's purpose IS to kill. You're finding the most bullshit excuses.[/QUOTE]
You keep saying that the gun's purpose is to kill, but you're not providing any evidence to support this.
The specific design of a gun is to contain a force which in turn pushes a projectile out of the gun. It's lethality is dependent on to many variables including target.
I'm not even going to argue with the "guns aren't designed for killing" thing since yeah it doesn't make sense. They are a tool in the sense of an extension of our own strength, purpose built to replace physical human fighting. Just like how once swords came out they were the thing to have. Instead of punching like cavemen we now have firearms. So yeah it is designed for harm.
The point is though that they don't[I] need[/I] to be used for killing and sometimes killing is a necessity.
If you think the general populous isn't responsible enough to wield this power I think that kind of says something about yourself.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;44563239]No, it really doesn't. Holy shit this is not hard to work the fuck out.
Guns are weapons, a tool designed with destruction as its [B]only[/B] purpose (using a gun as a hammer seems like a great way to ruin both the gun and yourself). Baseballs are built as a tool to play a sport. Their design has no destructive intent, however it can be re-purposed as a destructive tool if the user wishes (much like a gun can be re-purposed as a sports tool if the user wishes).
Don't even try arguing "but, but...THEY'RE TOOLS!" as it's a meaningless argument, the intent of their design and the entire history of the tool is important as it gives context to the tool.[/QUOTE]
shotguns and target rifles were not originally designed for killing people, they were designed for killing birds and paper, respectively
ok guys im a big gun advocate myself
but stop being fucking ridiculous, guns were invented to kill, have been historically used in wars to kill, and come with all sorts of features and attachments to make killing easier
if you want to fight for gun rights, go ahead. but dont do us all a disservice by making retarded arguments that literally make no sense
the best pro gun argument I had on facepunch was when a few posters tried to convince me that what a guy did in a school shooting could have been done with a bow and arrows
laughed for fucking hours thinking about it
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;44563327]shotguns and target rifles were not originally designed for killing people, they were designed for killing birds and paper, respectively[/QUOTE]
the three firearms that basically transitioned into the shotgun were all created with the express purpose of killing people
I honestly do not understand this distortion some people have. Nobody is disputing firearms can be used for purposes other than violence, but their primary usage and design purpose was killing people
the very first firearms created were designed with killing people as their purpose.
if you do not understand this you are simply delusional and that is it
[QUOTE=Timebomb575;44563327]shotguns and target rifles were not originally designed for killing people, they were designed for killing birds and paper, respectively[/QUOTE]
Derived from a tool designed as a weapon (they themselves are still weapons anyway). Besides, how many people try and defend their home with birdshot and target rifles?
You guys can be as verbose as you damn well want, skirt around the issue all you please. You aren't going to changing the definition of a firearm, and that is a lethal weapon intended for destruction (primarily of other humans, but animals and paper too).
-snep-
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
You know, he can try as hard as he can, but red states will knock it down without question. Regardless of your stance on them, you just can't sway it that easy.
I used to be pretty "yeah guns might be awesome to have, I could totally stop people fucking with me and shit if they really wanted to hurt me". Then I left high school, and started actually doing research into the area myself, looking into the various statistics gathered and shit.
Guns really aren't worth it. Unless you have some method of ensuring that people can own things like handguns and rifles, but enforce that they stay at a (certified) range or whatever so they cannot be stolen, or used in crime with ease at all. Otherwise it's a hobby that would have to be sacrificed.
But as someone pointed out, the US is still a really young country, that still thinks that the gun is a necessary "tool" to their freedom in this day and age. You've not had the centuries to mature as a society and shit, it's going to take a lot to change things like this so early on in the country's' life.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;44561805]Americans take the second amendment way too seriously. And I think pretty much everyone outside of the US will say that US gun culture is just absurd. Because it is.[/QUOTE]
Except it isn't absurd. People are entitled to defend themselves and guns are a legitimate sport/hobby.
If someone goes out on a killing with a gun, they don't count as a gun owner. They count as an asshole that needs to locked up in prison forever. Go after those people and not responsible guns owners.
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