[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44567822]Just an FYI, none of the shit civilians "carry around" is military grade. It's all semi-auto at best. It costs a ton of money to own something that's actually "military" grade, and the people that do have that kind of money, dont open carry.[/QUOTE]
not like "military grade" means fuck all to begin with. Just a term people like to throw around to vilify things.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44567840]I'm just clarifying, because everyone seems to think that we all own "assault rifles" which are FA/burst, when in reality we own semi-auto rifles [B]that just happen to look like military weapons, and[/B] [B]share a few other characteristics with them.[/B][/QUOTE]
Let's be real here, there is no difference between a high quality AR and a military AR other than select fire. Hell the high quality AR is probably better made than the military one.
It's not like full auto is something to be so scared about anyway.
this i find interesting
[url]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/23/police-find-homemade-submachine-gun/[/url]
[url]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/11/19/home-built-m11-submachine-guns-seized-australia/[/url]
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44567860]Actually the bolt is different completely, and so is the sear/trigger. [/QUOTE]
That's what comes with being select fire though, correct? I guess I shouldn't have said "no difference". Point I was trying to make was the 2 guns really aren't that far off from each other.
Yeah that didn't really make sense I said there is no difference other than select fire but select fire and what that entails [I]is [/I]the difference...
I'm making less sense I think it's time for bed.
sidenote: can a full auto capable bolt and trigger group be dropped directly into a "semi AR" and work? Or is there physical differences in the upper and lower that hinder that? I'm guessing there isn't a barrier but I dunno for sure.
[QUOTE=Aman;44567852]Let's be real here, there is no difference between a high quality AR and a military AR other than select fire. Hell the high quality AR is probably better made than the military one.
It's not like full auto is something to be so scared about anyway.[/QUOTE]
Except the term "assault rifle" only applies if it has burst or FA capabilities. As they are intended to assault positions. Hence [I]assault[/I] rifle. Select fire is literally one of the defining characteristic of an assault rifle.
Select fire is what makes a rifle into an assault rifle.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;44567769]It's true. And guess what? I don't go to school each day thinking we're going to be shot dead by some crazed fuckwit
I don't go into town worrying I might be shot dead point blank carrying on about my day
I don't fear that I'll wake up with a barrel to my temple with some guy in a ski mask about to shoot my entire family
I live in a nation that has been safe since 1996 and I'm proud of it
And no matter where this debate heads I will always say that I will always support gun control.
Also American politics are the biggest shit lords on the planet and I hope you guys grow out of this phase[/QUOTE]
As an American, I don't worry about being shot while going to school, or while on the street because statistically speaking those two occurrences are very rare events. Just like I don't fear getting hit by a car when I cross the street, or fear of getting killed by falling off of my bicycle in a really bad way, or any other fucking way to die.
[QUOTE=Aman;44562294]I actually find it pretty disgusting the willingness of people to just give up any means of defense. Whatever floats your boat though, stay on your island.[/QUOTE]
Funny you should say that, because supporters of firearm freedom in Australia are usually the same people who are scared of job-stealing evil rapist asia-minor/middle-eastern refugees arriving on rafts.
"We've got to convince them that 80 percent of gun owners, 90 percent of americans who are favor of simple background checks to make sure criminals, minors and people with psychiatric problems can't buy guns. Common sense. We've got to make them understand that that's what the public wants."
I do a "simple" background check every time I sell a gun, all FFL's already do this. States usually determine if private sales have to go through the same process as well. What part about that do people not get?
[QUOTE=ScottyWired;44568147]Funny you should say that, because supporters of firearm freedom in Australia are usually the same people who are scared of job-stealing evil rapist asia-minor/middle-eastern refugees arriving on rafts.[/QUOTE]
I am a job-stealing evil rapist asia-major far east semi refugee whose parents arrived here on a raft and I'm doing just fine
[QUOTE=BFG9000;44568185]I am a job-stealing evil rapist asia-major far east semi refugee whose parents arrived here on a raft and I'm doing just fine[/QUOTE]
Huh? Did you misunderstand and think I was criticizing immigrants? Because I'm not.
It's obvious that simply getting rid of guns won't solve anything. There's too much of a gun culture in the US for that.
The best way of doing it is not fear mongering, draconian rules or bans.
Personally, I think the best way of doing it is changing the culture of the US itself. It would take a very long time, but it would be very effective. By convincing generations to be less dependent on guns you eventually discourage the populace from wanting one.
[QUOTE=ScottyWired;44568214]Huh? Did you misunderstand and think I was criticizing immigrants? Because I'm not.[/QUOTE]
No, the point is I'm still a "supporter of firearm freedom"
It's not like those who support firearms rights are all redneck/cockney/kangaroofuckers who are privileged white isolationists and you shouldn't equate them to that
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;44567769]It's true. And guess what? I don't go to school each day thinking we're going to be shot dead by some crazed fuckwit
I don't go into town worrying I might be shot dead point blank carrying on about my day
I don't fear that I'll wake up with a barrel to my temple with some guy in a ski mask about to shoot my entire family[/QUOTE]
And neither does anyone else! I'm as afraid of being randomly shot as I walk through town as you are of dropbears in the trees over your head.
In fact, the last two are only something you should worry about if you made enemies with drug dealers and gang members, which usually only happens to people who are also drug dealers and gang members.
[editline]17th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=dude709;44567859]this i find interesting
[url]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/01/23/police-find-homemade-submachine-gun/[/url]
[url]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/11/19/home-built-m11-submachine-guns-seized-australia/[/url][/QUOTE]
Making guns isn't that difficult, weapons like the STEN and Blyskawica SMG's were designed to be easily buildable in underground machine shops. If partisans can mass produce weapons without attracting attention from the Gestapo, then some other group can do the same today.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;44568331]And neither does anyone else! I'm as afraid of being randomly shot as I walk through town as you are of dropbears in the trees over your head.
In fact, the last two are only something you should worry about if you made enemies with drug dealers and gang members, which usually only happens to people who are also drug dealers and gang members.
[editline]17th April 2014[/editline]
Making guns isn't that difficult, weapons like the STEN and Blyskawica SMG's were designed to be easily buildable in underground machine shops. If partisans can mass produce weapons without attracting attention from the Gestapo, then some other group can do the same today.[/QUOTE]
In all honesty you can build a crude sub-machine gun from plumbing parts found at a local hardware store. Thats with just basic rudimentary knowledge, someone with access to machining tools can make some pretty impressive things without too much work.
I'm pro-gun because I don't think the U.S. Government is capable enough at preventing the average criminal from getting their hands on illegal firearms, leaving ordinary people defenseless in their own homes. I don't want to have to be at the mercy of an armed intruder until the police arrive, if they're even aware of the situation.
Just look at the Operation Fast and Furious fiasco to see how incompetent we are.
I do see how some weapons are just unnecessary, however. I think pistols are where the line should be drawn.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;44567827]Even with that I just don't like the idea of open carry, I've stated it before in tons of threads no use with me arguing on that[/QUOTE]Open carry is kind of a silly thing, unless you're in the woods or in a remote town in Montana where everyone is practicing open-carry. There really isn't any point to advertise that you're packing heat, and what type of heat, in a place where you'd actually [i]need[/i] that heat. While open carry is [i]technically[/i] legal in Minnesota, since there's no provision specifically stating that carried firearms need to be concealed, I'd never open-carry anywhere. There's only one time where I'd show my firearm, and that's when I'm about to use it, other than that you'd never know I was carrying.
People make the mistake of assuming the wrong things about people who carry. There's a culture around it, and you'll usually find the same types of people who carry are also the most responsible people and usually the most practical. When you're carrying a weapon all of the rules for social interaction change, and since we all know this it's one of the ways we identify each other on the street. Say you have a shouting match over a traffic accident, normally you can yell and bitch all you want, but if you're carrying you [i]shut the fuck up and be nice.[/i] Why? Well, if the other guy has a screw loose and suddenly snaps into a fit of violent douche rage, and you put him down, you could be held liable for provoking him and escalating the situation if you don't. You're not really allowed to be a regular asshole when you're carrying, it's almost like you're pregnant with this little wood/polymer and metal infant. Want to get drunk and have a good time? Sorry, you're [i]carrying[/i] so you have to be the designated driver. You also can't just jump to the "I HAVE A GUN HAHAHA" option in arguments, in fact, you shouldn't even mention you have a gun ever. Carrying basically means you have a three pound reminder to not be a shithead, because any incident that happens will be looked upon with the highest level of scrutiny.
Just throwing my opinion in, gun laws won't do anything to clean up the streets. Criminals don't stand in line for a gun permit or conceal and carry license when they're planning a crime... they get a gun from anywhere they can. Conceal and carry is great, I think.
With this freedom, if somebody comes at you with intentions of causing harm, wouldn't you be happy to have the ultimate form of protection? I know I would. Sure, some crazies get guns lawfully, but that's going to happen with literally everything you can get your hands on.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;44568456]open carry is [i]technically[/i] legal in Minnesota[/QUOTE]
I know this isn't [i]exactly[/i] relevant, but you bringing up Minnesota reminded me of when I lived in St. Cloud for awhile. I heard that hunting within the city is legal as long as you're using a bow. :v:
[QUOTE=Robman8908;44568509]I know this isn't [i]exactly[/i] relevant, but you bringing up Minnesota reminded me of when I lived in St. Cloud for awhile. I heard that hunting within the city is legal as long as you're using a bow. :v:[/QUOTE]Yeah, I heard that too but since I don't hunt with a bow nor do I actually live in St. Cloud or the surrounding area, I didn't pay too much attention to it.
Be glad you don't live in St. Cloud anymore, crime has gotten [i]really[/i] bad down there. Apparently there was an abduction in fucking Sartell during broad daylight recently, and there's people getting beaten down with baseball bats in the parks again. :/
Not sure why some of the anti-gun regulars on FP always assume only crazy assbackwards tea party worshippers think people should be allowed to own guns in a reasonable fashion. I am a Canadian and I do not own a single firearm, nor do I own an airgun, paintball gun, or any other device that could reasonably fall into the category of "ranged weapon". This does not change my opinion that based on the facts, gun ownership is not the source of the problems America faces with its crime and violence, and placing any serious restrictions on it is not likely to help or change anything.
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;44568548]Be glad you don't live in St. Cloud anymore, crime has gotten [i]really[/i] bad down there. Apparently there was an abduction in fucking Sartell during broad daylight recently, and there's people getting beaten down with baseball bats in the parks again. :/[/QUOTE]
Jesus... yeah the only thing I remember being real bad was the amount of Somalians and how they would literally wreck their cars into other peoples' cars to take them to court and get money, lol.
The college house I lived in was right in the middle of "Little Somalia" and a few days I'd be late to work because Somalian kids would be playing in the street, see me coming, and just stand in the street and stare at me while I honked my horn like a madman.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;44568331]And neither does anyone else! I'm as afraid of being randomly shot as I walk through town as you are of dropbears in the trees over your head.
[/QUOTE]
Dropbears are no laughing matter. How can you joke about something like that?
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;44568569]Not sure why some of the anti-gun regulars on FP always assume only crazy assbackwards tea party worshippers think people should be allowed to own guns in a reasonable fashion. I am a Canadian and I do not own a single firearm, nor do I own an airgun, paintball gun, or any other device that could reasonably fall into the category of "ranged weapon". This does not change my opinion that based on the facts, gun ownership is not the source of the problems America faces with its crime and violence, and placing any serious restrictions on it is not likely to help or change anything.[/QUOTE]Yeah, and it's prooobably going to get worse because our society really isn't capable of accepting blame. That's why our politics are so fucked up, it's why we're not well-liked, and it's why our major issues never get solved. We tend to push the problem on to some hot button issue, make a bunch of stupid as fuck laws, and then wonder why everything gets broken because the laws cause more problems. Of course, we'll blame that on other shit too, rather than going "there's this problem we have, and we should really deal with it." Our education system, with it's zero-tolerance shit? That's going to cause so many issues down the line, mark my words, it's going to fuck up a lot of kids and warp their view of the world. Our prison system has been broken for decades, we're also experiencing social changes that certain parts of our society aren't okay with. These people elect politicians based on their silly, ignorant fears and coupled with the other side's politicians who were elected on the same grounds, you have what we have now: politicians more interested in bitching and blaming the "enemy" rather than doing their fucking jobs. Gun control is just another thing that's brought up because the real issues require real effort, guns are targeted because of ignorance and hesitation to deal with the hard problem.
Sometimes it's really frustrating to be an American and see all this shit, and then know how to fix the problem but be entirely incapable of doing so.[QUOTE=Robman8908;44568570]Jesus... yeah the only thing I remember being real bad was the amount of Somalians and how they would literally wreck their cars into other peoples' cars to take them to court and get money, lol.
The college house I lived in was right in the middle of "Little Somalia" and a few days I'd be late to work because Somalian kids would be playing in the street, see me coming, and just stand in the street and stare at me while I honked my horn like a madman.[/QUOTE]I don't understand why it's literally just Somalians who cause all sorts of problems, there's other African immigrants here who aren't complete shitheads. I tried hard to understand what the deal was, but I gave up when I saw a Somali dude take a shit behind a gas station [i]next to the door to the bathroom.[/i]
[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;44568682]I don't understand why it's literally just Somalians who cause all sorts of problems, there's other African immigrants here who aren't complete shitheads. I tried hard to understand what the deal was, but I gave up when I saw a Somali dude take a shit behind a gas station [i]next to the door to the bathroom.[/i][/QUOTE]
I worked at Newflyer for awhile. A bunch of Somalians worked there, and they were trying to sue the [private] company for not letting them pray (majority of them are Muslim) outside of their scheduled breaks on company time.
The company came back at them because they kept hiding their prayer rugs and bottles of water in the bathrooms so they could just say they were going to the bathroom, and pray in there. Literally all the Somalians would disappear at once.
Thankfully I never walked into the bathroom to find twenty Somalian guys crammed into the tiny bathroom and have to tiptoe around to take a piss. :v:
It sounds like he is going for the background check and mental healthcare route, so this is good.
If it was another anti gun lobby for limiting magazine sizes and shortening barrel length or whatever then this would be dumb, but it isn't. This group, from what I've read in the article is taking cause and effect into consideration, rather than "less bullets for a shooter means less deaths".
[QUOTE=Ricool06;44568713]It sounds like he is going for the background check and mental healthcare route, so this is good.[/QUOTE]
Okay so who gets to determine who is mentally fit? Do you have to see a doctor first?
Why would you voluntarily seek mental health assistance if it means you lose your rights?
Once you lose your rights, federally, there are no functional provisions to get it back. Before anyone goes "BUT YES THERE ARE, HERE IT IS IN THE LAWS", that doesn't actually work. Call your local ATF office and ask. The laws exist, but congress intentionally leashes the ATF by stipulating that zero funds will be used to restore gun ownership rights. It has been this way since the late 90's.
Note that drug convictions do this, as will any [I]misdemeanor[/I] domestic violence charge.
[QUOTE=GunFox;44568749]Okay so who gets to determine who is mentally fit? Do you have to see a doctor first?
Why would you voluntarily seek mental health assistance if it means you lose your rights?
Once you lose your rights, federally, there are no functional provisions to get it back. Before anyone goes "BUT YES THERE ARE, HERE IT IS IN THE LAWS", that doesn't actually work. Call your local ATF office and ask. The laws exist, but congress intentionally leashes the ATF by stipulating that zero funds will be used to restore gun ownership rights. It has been this way since the late 90's.
Note that drug convictions do this, as will any [I]misdemeanor[/I] domestic violence charge.[/QUOTE]
As far as I know, there are two other routes here, neither of which work particularly well.
A) Limiting everyone's rights with ineffective restrictions on the type/size of the firearm one is allowed to own.
B) Not changing anything, and continuing to have astoundingly high gun violence incidents.
Where I live, you must have a criminal record check to drive, to get a job in places of care and many other things to ensure you are able to carry out these tasks safely and responsibly.
I see it common sense that the measures should be mirrored with the ownership of firearms. They can be very dangerous but they are a constitutional right for the American people and can be used for protection and leisure and convenience.
I think the best way to protect the rights of everyone is to have background checks, and if it means having to have a mental health screening before you buy a potentially dangerous weapon so everyone else can exercise their other rights, then I'm all for it.
It probably won't be perfect, no, but it will stop stupid and ineffective laws about what kind of parts you're allowed to have on your rifle and stop people with a history of mental instability or violent criminal activity from owning a weapon.
As far as I see it, this is good for gun owning and non-gun owning American citizens.
[QUOTE=fishyfish777;44561964]It would probably be better for the sake of everyone if guns didn't exist, but they do, they can't really be removed without endangering the populace, and few deaths have been prevented because legal gun-owning citizens were forbidden to have a shoulder thing that goes up.[/QUOTE]
Guns provide an efficient way of fighting.
People will using swords, pikes and crossbows would be brutal. Imagine being pressed into an army using those weapons. You orders are to stand next to you other guy with a pike and face down the opposing blocks with a pike, hoping neither side will be ordered to actually engage. All the whole you are being pelted with rocks, quills and arrows, some of which might not be sanitary and could lead to infection.
Guns have provided a nice equalizer, people are trained to use them efficiently. Responsible armies are trained with courageous restraint and the effect of supressive fire means most shots are never fired with specific intent to kill. I would much rather be in a gun war (IEDs and chemical weapons not counted) than a pike/bow war.
That said giving civilians guns seems fishy, though with good intention to fight tyrannical government, the government has put measures in place to stop this from happening. If anyone did try to use those weapons to defend their rights from their government (in the US) they would be shot by much better equipped government forces. So maybe it is for the best Americans no longer had the right to bear arms.
[QUOTE=OberKommando;44562232]Except it's not, I wish we had the same freedom in Canada that the Americans have[/QUOTE]
We DO. Except the automatics, but that's not too necessary. However, here too the libarals already started having their slow way with guns. Much like in America, they're just taking the guns away from the smart people and leaving the illegal guns be. Fuck, I should start voting. 3rd year overdue :/
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;44561802]I'll never understand America's or this forum obsession with guns tbh and I just thank my luck that I was born in a country where this shit is not tolerated
Not trying to start a shit riot but honestly I don't get it, I don't understand the need or desire to have or own a deadly weapon that does more harm than good
[editline]16th April 2014[/editline]
Props to this guy and his group, it's a good step[/QUOTE]
Sorry bout the late. Meant to hit the "That is the stupidest post ever" button, but I couldn't find it, so I decided to shoot the late button with my baby-killing-death-machine-assault-weapon-nuclear-missile-gun-of-death. If you "don't want to start a shit riot" then keep your fucking opinion to yourself.
[QUOTE=BFG9000;44568289]No, the point is I'm still a "supporter of firearm freedom"
It's not like those who support firearms rights are all redneck/cockney/kangaroofuckers who are privileged white isolationists and you shouldn't equate them to that[/QUOTE]
What is your reasoning for supporting firearm freedom?
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