Hearing Protection Act: A Bill to Remove Suppresors from the National Firearms Act of 1934 - Polidicks

Seriously, the only reason this is even suggested is because gun companies want to sell you an overpriced piece of garbage, and with the recent gun fervor America is having, they can probably push it through.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48968466]That really doesn't make that much sense. Most of the reason for why handguns push up is because of the sliding action, as well as amount of gas exerted through the barrel. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZU5TGljAmw[/media][/QUOTE] some suppressors are very heavy Adam Savage explained it better than I can

[QUOTE=Kommodore;48968569]why the fuck would anyone need a suppressor [editline]23rd October 2015[/editline] cant you just wear ear muffs[/QUOTE] Namely sporting usage. Most hunters cannot afford to wear hearing protection since hearing is arguably your most important sense while hunting, but this practice leads to unnecessary hearing damage. Suppressors are harder to get in the United States than most nations with significant firearms ownership. In many European countries they are quite easy to acquire. In many of these countries it is pretty much assumed that if you're hunting with a rifle, you're using a suppressor. Suppressors have the legal standing that they do in the United States namely because of popular misconceptions and unfounded concerns about poachers. Suppressors are also a useful way of doubling up on hearing protection while target shooting.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48968709]Seriously, the only reason this is even suggested is because gun companies want to sell you an overpriced piece of garbage, and with the recent gun fervor America is having, they can probably push it through.[/QUOTE] [i][Citation Needed][/i]

[QUOTE=ossumsauce;48968302] Suppressors usually cost upwards of $1000. Not only that, but your weapon needs to be threaded to accept said suppressor as well. Typically only really high-end weapons are threaded for suppressors. Considering that the average criminal uses hi-points and S&W 38S model 10 handguns that costs sub $300, a suppressor is out of their reach significantly. Thus, your argument is kind of moot.[/QUOTE] True, but having them removed from the Act will probably have companies racing to make them cheaper and more commercially available since it will be an essential item for hunters and target shooters. You've already got things like oil filter suppressor adapters that are dirt cheap and probably only uncommon because of the fact that they're NFA regulated.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;48968650]Gun control needs several things. Mental health is only a small subset. There's also crime, suicides, and accidents, which are heavily overlooked. I've been thinking about gun laws quite a bit, because it's been in the news frequently and neither side seems to be arguing based on evidence. My principles are strongly divided on this issue, so all I can go on is actual science. I think it would be a good idea to model our gun laws on Switzerland. They have relatively high gun ownership rates (25-45% depending on the study), and very low gun crime rates (only 18 gun-related homicides in 2014, in the entire country), so they're obviously doing something right. Their methods seem to be gun licensing, a blanket ban on carrying loaded weapons (without a special needs-basis license), and restricting ammunition (you can only buy ammunition if you have a gun license, and only for the types of guns you own - this makes illegal guns relatively useless). To that, I would add a requirement to prove ownership of a gun safe before being issued a license, as is done in Norway (another high-ownership, low-crime country, although stricter). There's way too many negligent people keeping guns in the open, which is a hazard for children. I would also keep NFA laws for automatic weapons and destructive devices - in 90 years, only one crime has been committed with a legal privately-owned Title II weapon, and that was a police officer, so that law is obviously working and needs no further restriction.[/QUOTE] Cool, but rather than get a gun safe having a designated locked location should be sufficient.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;48968650]I would also keep NFA laws for automatic weapons and destructive devices - in 90 years, only one crime has been committed with a legal privately-owned Title II weapon, and that was a police officer, so that law is obviously working and needs no further restriction.[/QUOTE] imo they should reopen the registry so newly manufactured automatics can be sold but keep the rest of it

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48968948]imo they should reopen the registry so newly manufactured automatics can be sold but keep the rest of it[/QUOTE] Currently the Heller Foundation is aiding two ongoing lawsuits regarding exactly this. It's suspected that by the middle of next year we'll see some progress on the Hughes Amendment finally being removed from the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986, and because of this, people will be able to manufacture and sell automatics again. I don't know about you guys, but I plan on working on my own business plan if that is the case. I already have a plan to manufacture a reproduction of the Girandoni Air Rifle and Apache Revolver(w/ electric ignition system), but the idea of being able to manufacture automatics and maybe even build the Luty machine pistol legally or build and sell the American 180 rifle is pretty cool.

I love the argument "why do you need a suppressor? just wear ear plugs" its the same as saying "why do you need a corvette? just put a loud exhaust on it" or similar. Suppressors have their place and if fellow gun enthusiasts want to have one without having to go through miles of red tape and headaches then that is their business. Legally owned NFA weapons dont get used in crimes. Not saying they cant be but as far as i know (and i can be wrong, correct me if i am, i wont be upset) there has only been 1 recorded instance of a legally owned NFA weapon used in a crime. it was the only time a full auto weapon was used in a crime. sure ill get flak for all this though.

if i were a criminal looking for a suppressor, i'd go to my local gas station and pick up everything i need there for $5 or less. hell i'd probably do that even if i owned a normal suppressor as there's no way cops could track everybody buying soda, tape, and steel wool

A typical handgun firing is something between 100 and 120dB, and a rifle 110 to 140dB. Guns are pretty loud. A suppressor will reduce the sound by quite a bit, but it's not going to make the sound go away. A pistol suppressor typically takes it down to 85 to 90dB, and rifle ones will depend on the rifle. In general, a suppressor makes a weapon about 15% quieter, and even the very best suppressor might only take away 30% of the sound. So yeah, a suppressor doesn't make a gun silent, not even close. The biggest effect they have is making a number of guns easier to handle, as many have mentioned.

[QUOTE=TornadoAP;48968709]Seriously, the only reason this is even suggested is because gun companies want to sell you an overpriced piece of garbage, and with the recent gun fervor America is having, they can probably push it through.[/QUOTE] Uh, "piece of garbage"? Are you kidding me? Suppressors would be a godsend. [editline]23rd October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48969104]if i were a criminal looking for a suppressor, i'd go to my local gas station and pick up everything i need there for $5 or less. hell i'd probably do that even if i owned a normal suppressor as there's no way cops could track everybody buying soda, tape, and steel wool[/QUOTE] Do these homemade suppressors even work?

Making suppressors easier to get (i.e., not paying for $200 tax stamp) isn't going to change any dynamics on crime. Suppressors are generally not integral, so they sit at the end of the barrel. And that creates added length to the gun that reduces its concealability. Gangsters and others like the concealability of weapons. So I seriously doubt gangbangers are really going to go after getting suppressors. And a suppressed weapon still is very recognizable when shot. Movies and video games make up a lot of fictitious crap about weapons. This law will help the legal, law-abiding, citizen not have to pay an extra $200 tax stamp to get a suppressor.

[QUOTE=DropDeadTed;48969147] Do these homemade suppressors even work?[/QUOTE] why wouldnt they? they're incredibly simple.

[QUOTE=DropDeadTed;48969147]Do these homemade suppressors even work?[/QUOTE] For one or two shots, yes. Steel wool will burn out before you've emptied the magazine, though, and they won't be particularly effective to begin with.

I love the rabid anti-gun people who get their knowledge on firearms from Battlefield and Payday coming in here and making fools of themselves, because it's so obvious they just want to grab on to [I]something[/I], anything at all, that would suggest this is bad, without even thinking it through first.

A "hearing protection" act that's for silencers on guns? If enough people are going deaf from gunshots I don't think silencers are the real solution I'm not necessarily against making silencers more available, but calling it the "hearing protection act" is kind of ridiculous

[QUOTE=Alan Ninja!;48968501]A primitive suppressor is piss-easy to manufacture anyway, so there's nothing stopping an ambitious criminal from getting one if they really want. Outlawing them just makes it harder to get them for law-abiding citizens.[/QUOTE] You can also make a primitive gun or a bomb with ease, accessibility matters.

[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;48969311]A "hearing protection" act that's for silencers on guns? If enough people are going deaf from gunshots I don't think silencers are the real solution I'm not necessarily against making silencers more available, but calling it the "hearing protection act" is kind of ridiculous[/QUOTE] That is exactly what it boils down to though for the many law abiding citizens who purchase and participate in the hobby. I have particularly bad hearing in my right ear due to playing live shows and shooting guns in my previous years. Is it a solution to hearing loss? No, and even if I did use a firearm with a suppressor, I would still probably wear some form of hearing protection for my own sake. But in terms of how things are now, my ears still ring even with my MSA Sordin ear pro after a long day at the range with a rifle. When I am hunting for 4+ hours, even my MSA's with gel cups get tiring to wear. I would have happily paid for the stamp to get a suppressor in my state of Massachusetts but unfortunately my current state of residence doesn't feel that anybody should own a device or even own firearms for that matter. I can't wait to choose a new base and get out of this state.

[QUOTE=Cold;48969424]You can also make a primitive gun or a bomb with ease, accessibility matters.[/QUOTE] Last time I checked tin cans, steel wool and duct tape are just as easy to get ahold of as fertilizer, PVC pipes and diesel fuel. Accessibility doesn't make much difference when you could buy the materials for a small arsenal at any decent hardware store. Functionally the only difference between a factory made suppressor and one made out of household materials is longevity, and the kind of criminals that would benefit from either one probably don't want to get into a shootout anyway

[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48969534]you should really wear earplugs under your sordins.. I shoot .308, 6,5x55, 9x19, .38/.357 and 12ga with my msa sordin surpreme pro-x and i never do it without earplugs as a backup. just turn up the volume on the sordins and you hear well still[/QUOTE] Even then there are may reasons to forgo hearing protection at all while say hunting or in combat. You need to be able to hear clearly in those situations, something that electronic hearing protection only does so well. They also don't offer a sense of direction when it comes to sound. This is why a lot of hunters like to use suppressors since they don't have to give up their directional hearing while maintaining a OSHA hearing safe level of noise.

[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;48968109]IMO, it's the gun lobby trying to get a new item to peddle. suppressors shouldn't be in the hands of civilians.[/QUOTE] Lol, dude you can make a silencer super fucking easy. Hell, i've taken a load of the noise off my AR by firing it with a shoe over it as a joke. Also understand that there is no such thing as a "silencer" suppressors reduce the amount of noise but the weapon is still loud.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;48969555]Even then there are may reasons to forgo hearing protection at all while say hunting or in combat. You need to be able to hear clearly in those situations, something that electronic hearing protection only does so well. They also don't offer a sense of direction when it comes to sound. This is why a lot of hunters like to use suppressors since they don't have to give up their directional hearing while maintaining a OSHA hearing safe level of noise.[/QUOTE] Exactly, people don't understand that when you go hunting you need to hear anything that walks through, especially where I hunt like in the Pacific North West where there are a lot of forests. Usually you hear the animal before you even see them. I simply don't use ear plugs but that's probably why my hearing is bad :/

[QUOTE=Cold;48969424]You can also make a primitive gun or a bomb with ease, accessibility matters.[/QUOTE] Any oil filter is potentially a suppressor, all you need is an adapter

[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;48968085]It can allow criminals to get suppressors that could mask the sound of a gunshot, making home invasions/robbery killings harder to discover.[/QUOTE] I thought that it was a hollywood myth. Those guns are still loud.

A side by side comparison between a suppressed rifle and a non suppressed rifle. They don't make guns sound silent, like Hollywood and video games would have you think. It just reduces the report, not totally eliminates it. [video=youtube;JlPOQlYZ0hI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlPOQlYZ0hI[/video]

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;48969969]I thought that it was a hollywood myth. Those guns are still loud.[/QUOTE] A suppressed pistol has a similar decibel rating as a jack hammer

[QUOTE=Gunner th;48969111]A typical handgun firing is something between 100 and 120dB, and a rifle 110 to 140dB. Guns are pretty loud. A suppressor will reduce the sound by quite a bit, but it's not going to make the sound go away. A pistol suppressor typically takes it down to 85 to 90dB, and rifle ones will depend on the rifle. In general, a suppressor makes a weapon about 15% quieter, and even the very best suppressor might only take away 30% of the sound. So yeah, a suppressor doesn't make a gun silent, not even close. The biggest effect they have is making a number of guns easier to handle, as many have mentioned.[/QUOTE] Handguns are typically louder than rifles by far. Also the general low end for common cartridges in terms of loudness is the .22, and that's 134dB. Most rifle rounds are around 150dB, and big bore handgun rounds are 155-165dB. Seems like not much of a volume difference but the difference between a 5.56x45 and a .357 magnum is enough to literally rupture your eardrums. A 5.56 rifle comes in at around 155dB, while a .357 is 164dB, which is nearly an order of magnitude louder. 10dB is a 10x difference, so a .357 Magnum is 9 times louder than a 5.56 rifle.

[QUOTE=Aman;48968155]A silencer doesn't reduce recoil. What would imply that it even would?[/QUOTE] it will help for like, a handgun perhaps, but honestly you're better off just putting weights on the front it won't do much but

[QUOTE=gman003-main;48969269]For one or two shots, yes. Steel wool will burn out before you've emptied the magazine, though, and they won't be particularly effective to begin with.[/QUOTE]Like all things, not all steel wools are created equal. [QUOTE=Cold;48969424]You can also make a primitive gun or a bomb with ease, accessibility matters.[/QUOTE]Just off the top of my head: Pipe, (two different diameters) drill bit set, nail, China-made cheap tap and die, tape, bolts, nuts, washers, wire, cheap stick welder, wood, bar stock, steel square tube, heavy duty steel brake line, cheap drill press, screwdriver set, allen wrench set, screws, glass tubing, glass container, cotter pins, solder, copper tubing, (any will do, has to be proper diameter though) garage door opener, fertilizer, pool cleaner, dietary supplements, drain cleaner, propane torch set, paint thinner, kitchen soap, (with degreasing agent) pesticide, gasoline additive, antifreeze, home silk screening kit, model airplane servos, replacement automatic yard light sensor, styrofoam, superglue, pvc glue, and plenty of other stuff I haven't thought about or have deliberately left out will yield... - semi-automatic or full-automatic machine pistol - single shot disposable shotgun - remote-detonated and/or proximity-detonated antipersonnel mine - chemical agents - dispersal charge for binary chemical agents and the appropriate delivery vehicle - anti-tank rocket and launcher - grenade, anti-personnel fragmentation and/or incendiary - limpet mine, specifically for attaching underneath a car - plastic explosives - single-shot derringer-type pistol, disposable - anti-vehicle mine, pressure-sensitive and chemically detonated All done on a minimum budget too, well within the financial capabilities of just about anyone. Accessibility doesn't mean jack shit, I quickly learned that a long, long time ago. At the very, very basic level nitrates can be extracted from any fertile soil or manure and with a bit of chemistry a patient and industrious person could have a very usable oxidizer; mix with fuel and viola, you have an explosive compound. Seriously. Dirt. Water. Buckets. Piss. Heat. Diesel fuel. These are all the necessary components to recreate any number of terrorist attacks or countless insurgent bombs, so when you talk about accessibility it makes me just scowl and shake my goddamn head. No, you live in a world where public safety is an illusion, a bullshit lie people tell themselves so they can sleep at night. What's the unfortunate truth is that we live in a very, very dangerous and confusing world where people do terrible, terrible things. They're not even bad people really, nobody gets into the "I'm gonna blow up a building full of innocent people today!" game because they're pure evil at their core, no, instead something happened that made such an action seem justifiable. They can rationalize it and apply whatever silly goddamn moral loophole they've come up with so they feel like they're doing the right thing. That's the truly alarming part, just about every single "bad guy" is just a regular guy who started thinking about the unthinkable and life just gave them enough circumstances to really start considering it. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's just how it is, that's life.