Hearing Protection Act: A Bill to Remove Suppresors from the National Firearms Act of 1934 - Polidicks

[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;48969969]I thought that it was a hollywood myth. Those guns are still loud.[/QUOTE] The quietest suppressed weapon known to the public is the Welrod pistol, which is about 75 dB. I suspect modern special forces have other ultra-quiet guns that we don't know about. This kind of reduction in noise is only possible with a gun designed from the start for suppression. Any kind of detachable suppressor will be far louder. IIRC a suppressed M1911 will be around 100dB and any suppressed rifle is in the 120dB+ range (which is, in fact, an enormous reduction - an M1 Garand was like 170dB).

[QUOTE=gman003-main;48970192]The quietest suppressed weapon known to the public is the Welrod pistol, which is about 75 dB. I suspect modern special forces have other ultra-quiet guns that we don't know about. This kind of reduction in noise is only possible with a gun designed from the start for suppression. Any kind of detachable suppressor will be far louder. IIRC a suppressed M1911 will be around 100dB and any suppressed rifle is in the 120dB+ range (which is, in fact, an enormous reduction - an M1 Garand was like 170dB).[/QUOTE]lol the Welrod is not the quietest, look up the PSS pistol. It actually has a cartridge that has a tiny piston on the inside that forces the bullet out but contains the pressure inside the case, the only sound is the action itself. Just so everyone is clear, if going to the range was a job it would be grossly unsafe by OSHA standards because of the noise. Even with excellent earpro a full-sized big dick rifle like a M1 Garand is still going to be rocking your ears.

[QUOTE=Aman;48968155]A silencer doesn't reduce recoil. What would imply that it even would?[/QUOTE] What the fucking is a silencer. I assume you mean suppressor. Shows how educated you are on guns.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;48970192]The quietest suppressed weapon known to the public is the Welrod pistol, which is about 75 dB. I suspect modern special forces have other ultra-quiet guns that we don't know about. This kind of reduction in noise is only possible with a gun designed from the start for suppression. Any kind of detachable suppressor will be far louder. IIRC a suppressed M1911 will be around 100dB and any suppressed rifle is in the 120dB+ range (which is, in fact, an enormous reduction - an M1 Garand was like 170dB).[/QUOTE] The PSS has it beat, and the reason why the welrod was so quite was because it was a bolt action pistol with an integrally suppressed barrel which used a system of rubber wipes and baffles that while made the firearm very quiet also wore away very quickly.

[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;48969418]you're wrong and your opinion is uninformed. suppressor use is recommended and appreciated in most northern european countries, with both norway, finland, and england having loads of them in circulation. the benefits are reduced sound signature, reducing both hearing damage on the shooter and surrounding people/animals (hunting dogs for instance), lessened recoil for those with physical damages or disabilities, reduced flash for dusk/dawn/night hunting (which is legal and done in many european countries), and much less stress around shooting ranges. your "suppressors shouldn't be in the hands of civilians" stunt just shows how biased and badly informed you are.[/QUOTE] I have no problem with the right to carry, but unless you've ever lived in south central or Lennox, or the worst part of any American city, you don't have the leg to stand on. Norway for the most part is a equal country, unlike the US, less crime in general. In America, however, we see home invasions, muggings, robbery and other violent crime. Suppressors being legal for purchase without the tax would make them more widespread, simple economics. People in the inner city or places that are used to gun violence can tell, for the most part a firework from a gunshot, however if you heard a suppressed weapon, especially in the inner city, you'd think it's a firecracker or firework. The paperwork itself prevents crime. Tdlr suppressors work for your low crime country, but make the worst parts of America worse because the paperwork is preventing criminals from having access to them.

[QUOTE=Aide;48970272]What the fucking is a silencer. I assume you mean suppressor. Shows how educated you are on guns.[/QUOTE] Considering that Hiram Maxim called the first suppressor a silencer that wouldn't be far off. A lot of major manufacturers such as SilencerCo and Sig Sauer also promotes its use as a correct term, even if it's a misnomer. [editline]23rd October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;48970277]I have no problem with the right to carry, but unless you've ever lived in south central or Lennox, or the worst part of any American city, you don't have the leg to stand on. Norway for the most part is a equal country, unlike the US, less crime in general. In America, however, we see home invasions, muggings, robbery and other violent crime. Suppressors being legal for purchase without the tax would make them more widespread, simple economics. People in the inner city or places that are used to gun violence can tell, for the most part a firework from a gunshot, however if you heard a suppressed weapon, especially in the inner city, you'd think it's a firecracker or firework. The paperwork itself prevents crime. Tdlr suppressors work for your low crime country, but make the worst parts of America worse because the paperwork is preventing criminals from having access to them.[/QUOTE] Why don't criminals just use pop bottles full of news paper? They achieve the same thing at a much lower expense and are significantly easier to dispose of.

If you think your typical banger is going to get a suppressor for his $100 beater HiPoint (also, keep in mind most firearms within said bangers reach would need special attention to be able to mount a suppressor anyway) he bought from his buddy I don't really know what to tell you They have much easier ways to go about ventilating their rivals quietly than dropping big bux on a suppressor

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48970254]lol the Welrod is not the quietest, look up the PSS pistol. It actually has a cartridge that has a tiny piston on the inside that forces the bullet out but contains the pressure inside the case, the only sound is the action itself.[/QUOTE] I was unaware of the PSS. Very interesting design, and I thank you for bringing it to my awareness. I did notice that, according to [url=http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=307&page=2]this test[/url], it was 124.6dB at a distance of one meter. [url=http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2335]This modern test of the Welrod[/url] was 122.8dB at one meter, using the same standard methodology (that 85dB figure I previously cited is obviously not at a 1m range - I expect such things were not standardized until after NATO was formed). So the Welrod does appear to be the quieter of the two, if only by a small amount. The PSS definitely has a size advantage, though, and it's a vastly different design that has a lot of potential.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;48970310]I was unaware of the PSS. Very interesting design, and I thank you for bringing it to my awareness. I did notice that, according to [url=http://www.sadefensejournal.com/wp/?p=307&page=2]this test[/url], it was 124.6dB at a distance of one meter. [url=http://www.smallarmsreview.com/display.article.cfm?idarticles=2335]This modern test of the Welrod[/url] was 122.8dB at one meter, using the same standard methodology (that 85dB figure I previously cited is obviously not at a 1m range - I expect such things were not standardized until after NATO was formed). So the Welrod does appear to be the quieter of the two, if only by a small amount. The PSS definitely has a size advantage, though, and it's a vastly different design that has a lot of potential.[/QUOTE] Bare in mind too that the welrod was designed to be fired point blank, muzzle on target. That might be where that number came from.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;48970340]Bare in mind too that the welrod was designed to be fired point blank, muzzle on target. That might be where that number came from.[/QUOTE] The Welrod also used rubber smaller than the bullet baffles. The whole thing needed to be disassembled and the baffles replaced after a dozen rounds.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48970162] - semi-automatic or full-automatic machine pistol - single shot disposable shotgun - remote-detonated and/or proximity-detonated antipersonnel mine - chemical agents - dispersal charge for binary chemical agents and the appropriate delivery vehicle - anti-tank rocket and launcher - grenade, anti-personnel fragmentation and/or incendiary - limpet mine, specifically for attaching underneath a car - plastic explosives - single-shot derringer-type pistol, disposable - anti-vehicle mine, pressure-sensitive and chemically detonated [/QUOTE] and all the info on how to build this kind of shit is very easy to get access to if you know where to look, even n clearnet, just spend like a day on /k/ and you'll accidentally collect enough info to start your own insurrection

[QUOTE=TheDestroyerOfall;48970277]I have no problem with the right to carry, but unless you've ever lived in south central or Lennox, or the worst part of any American city, you don't have the leg to stand on. Norway for the most part is a equal country, unlike the US, less crime in general. In America, however, we see home invasions, muggings, robbery and other violent crime. Suppressors being legal for purchase without the tax would make them more widespread, simple economics. People in the inner city or places that are used to gun violence can tell, for the most part a firework from a gunshot, however if you heard a suppressed weapon, especially in the inner city, you'd think it's a firecracker or firework. The paperwork itself prevents crime. Tdlr suppressors work for your low crime country, but make the worst parts of America worse because the paperwork is preventing criminals from having access to them.[/QUOTE] Any retard can make a suppressor with an hour's work on a lathe. Even less if you want to go to the trouble of making a stamping form for stamped baffles.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48970375]and all the info on how to build this kind of shit is very easy to get access to if you know where to look, even n clearnet, just spend like a day on /k/ and you'll accidentally collect enough info to start your own insurrection[/QUOTE] eh some of those take with a grain of salt, you're not making an effective anti-tank RPG from whats under your kitchen sink, certainly not one thats going to work against any recent armor either, as for anything to do with chemical weapons, you're more than likely to kill yourself if you tried making that stuff outside of even a rudimentary lab, and any explosives, forget it, you're going to blow yourself up or melt yourself in the synthesis if you're blindly following a guide without any knowledge of the actual chemistry

[QUOTE=download;48970376]Any retard can make a suppressor with an hour's work on a lathe. Even less if you want to go to the trouble of making a stamping form for stamped baffles.[/QUOTE] I've heard of people making .22LR suppressors out of tennis balls and PVC pipe. It's not hard at all to do.

TNT is easy to make on paper, just hammer 3 nitro groups onto a toluene, but in practice the solvents you need are going to melt you if they don't blow up as for silencers though, there are already attachments that use oil filters with a hole cut out, they're regulated as silencers, but they're essentially just a pair of threadings, you don't even really need a lathe

[QUOTE=Sableye;48970563]TNT is easy to make on paper, just hammer 3 nitro groups onto a toluene, but in practice the solvents you need are going to melt you if they don't blow up as for silencers though, there are already attachments that use oil filters with a hole cut out, they're regulated as silencers, but they're essentially just a pair of threadings, you don't even really need a lathe[/QUOTE] It's not hard to handle toluene and nitric acid safely.

[QUOTE=Sableye;48970555]eh some of those take with a grain of salt, you're not making an effective anti-tank RPG from whats under your kitchen sink, certainly not one thats going to work against any recent armor either, as for anything to do with chemical weapons, you're more than likely to kill yourself if you tried making that stuff outside of even a rudimentary lab, and any explosives, forget it, you're going to blow yourself up or melt yourself in the synthesis if you're blindly following a guide without any knowledge of the actual chemistry[/QUOTE] I don't know, I'm no chemist, but I think the tree stumps on my buddies property may say otherwise. It hardly takes any knowledge to make ANFO.

I have a friend manufacturing a suppressor as soon as his paperwork gets back from the ATF. It's an aluminum tube with holes drilled in either end, and it's filled with car motor freeze plugs like you can buy at any auto parts store, and some springs to keep pressure on them. It's not some magical device. Anybody can make one, and people make illegal ones all the time. This is what they look like on the inside: [IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/2d934zl.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Sableye;48970555]eh some of those take with a grain of salt, you're not making an effective anti-tank RPG from whats under your kitchen sink, certainly not one thats going to work against any recent armor either, as for anything to do with chemical weapons, you're more than likely to kill yourself if you tried making that stuff outside of even a rudimentary lab, and any explosives, forget it, you're going to blow yourself up or melt yourself in the synthesis if you're blindly following a guide without any knowledge of the actual chemistry[/QUOTE] oh yeah you can't take everything there as truth, i wouldn't be surprised if there were guides deliberately made to blow up in your face, by both assholes trolling and by some 3 letter agency doing what they supposedly did with the anarchist's cookbook (fake guides that either don't work or spectacularly fail). enough of what you can find there, though, could be verified by some extra research that anyone who isn't an idiot could do. really, i don't know how i feel about the info being so easy to get to. on the obvious hand, it is a potential danger to society. on the other, though, it goes hand-in-hand with the first and second amendments and I think that having the information could be useful in worst case scenarios. what i think doesn't matter though since it is impossible to retract it.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48970162]Like all things, not all steel wools are created equal. Just off the top of my head: Pipe, (two different diameters) drill bit set, nail, China-made cheap tap and die, tape, bolts, nuts, washers, wire, cheap stick welder, wood, bar stock, steel square tube, heavy duty steel brake line, cheap drill press, screwdriver set, allen wrench set, screws, glass tubing, glass container, cotter pins, solder, copper tubing, (any will do, has to be proper diameter though) garage door opener, fertilizer, pool cleaner, dietary supplements, drain cleaner, propane torch set, paint thinner, kitchen soap, (with degreasing agent) pesticide, gasoline additive, antifreeze, home silk screening kit, model airplane servos, replacement automatic yard light sensor, styrofoam, superglue, pvc glue, and plenty of other stuff I haven't thought about or have deliberately left out will yield... - semi-automatic or full-automatic machine pistol - single shot disposable shotgun - remote-detonated and/or proximity-detonated antipersonnel mine - chemical agents - dispersal charge for binary chemical agents and the appropriate delivery vehicle - anti-tank rocket and launcher - grenade, anti-personnel fragmentation and/or incendiary - limpet mine, specifically for attaching underneath a car - plastic explosives - single-shot derringer-type pistol, disposable - anti-vehicle mine, pressure-sensitive and chemically detonated All done on a minimum budget too, well within the financial capabilities of just about anyone. Accessibility doesn't mean jack shit, I quickly learned that a long, long time ago. At the very, very basic level nitrates can be extracted from any fertile soil or manure and with a bit of chemistry a patient and industrious person could have a very usable oxidizer; mix with fuel and viola, you have an explosive compound. Seriously. Dirt. Water. Buckets. Piss. Heat. Diesel fuel. These are all the necessary components to recreate any number of terrorist attacks or countless insurgent bombs, so when you talk about accessibility it makes me just scowl and shake my goddamn head. No, you live in a world where public safety is an illusion, a bullshit lie people tell themselves so they can sleep at night. What's the unfortunate truth is that we live in a very, very dangerous and confusing world where people do terrible, terrible things. They're not even bad people really, nobody gets into the "I'm gonna blow up a building full of innocent people today!" game because they're pure evil at their core, no, instead something happened that made such an action seem justifiable. They can rationalize it and apply whatever silly goddamn moral loophole they've come up with so they feel like they're doing the right thing. That's the truly alarming part, just about every single "bad guy" is just a regular guy who started thinking about the unthinkable and life just gave them enough circumstances to really start considering it. Sorry to burst your bubble but that's just how it is, that's life.[/QUOTE] Thats all very impressive for when you're going on a well planned suicide rampage, but with 15k homocides a year, most of them not being premeditated (let alone very well planned), it doesn't really statistically matter what you can cook up in your garage. If you're dedicated wanting to trade your life for somebody else, you can do that, probably in every country, under all laws. You're just hoping that by making the processes as long as possible to have the highest chance people divert from that path or get caught. The most common homicide reason is an escalation of an argument with a relative, but a homicide like that is unlikely to happen outside the rage at that moment. So that accessibility of weapons at that moment can matter a lot.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;48968055]Being able to have a suppressor for my .22LR would increase my ability to clear out pest animals ten fold.[/QUOTE] I don't understand this. how would it increase your ability to kill animals by any significant margin compared to just firing subsonic .22? it's obviously going to be quieter with the suppresser but a subsonic .22 out in the open is barely louder than a sizeable branch being snapped.

You can buy a suppressor that can accommodate several calibers, and have it for a few weapons. Or you can actually make almost anything a suppressor with a cool little gismo you can buy that attaches to just about anything, like an oil filter, which is legal as long as you pay the tax stamp on the thing since it's what's technically counted as the suppressor They're nice to have mainly for noise reasons (Obviously). You can get by without throwing plugs in or protection on which is worth the price by itself if you shoot a lot. If you shoot 5.56 or 7.62 or something like that, you're probably still going to want to, though. If you have pests like gofers and shit they're also great for your .22 since the shots won't scare them when you pop one, as well as won't annoy your neighbors Anyway, they're just like any other accessory you'd buy for a gun. It fits a niche purpose. Be it grip tape, a sight, a grip extender, or whatever else

[QUOTE=zombini;48970560]I've heard of people making .22LR suppressors out of tennis balls and PVC pipe. It's not hard at all to do.[/QUOTE] I don't think many criminals are dumb enough to risk their life with taped together one-shot zipguns (I've not seen many reports of such weapons being used) since guns are common and easy enough to obtain, and the same would likely apply for improvised suppressors, most being one-shot use before being blown apart by gases. There are obvious major advantages to store bought suppressors.

[QUOTE=xamllew;48970731]I don't think many criminals are dumb enough to risk their life with taped together one-shot zipguns (I've not seen many reports of such weapons being used) since guns are common and easy enough to obtain, and I think the same would apply for improvised suppressors, most being one-shot use before being blown apart by gases, there are obvious major advantages to store bought suppressors.[/QUOTE] If you don't think criminals are dumb enough you've got a serious issue with your thought process. You've got to be pretty dumb to do a lot of shit criminals do in the first place.

I'll never really get the American obsession with firearms.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;48970806]If you don't think criminals are dumb enough you've got a serious issue with your thought process. You've got to be pretty dumb to do a lot of shit criminals do in the first place.[/QUOTE] The ones who are in prison are dumb, but the ones who don't get caught and know what they're doing aren't.

[QUOTE=xamllew;48970842]The ones who are in prison are dumb, but the ones who don't get caught and know what they're doing aren't.[/QUOTE] Implying that just because they haven't been caught makes them all the wiser. It's not like the law is a see all catch all system, plenty of people fall through the cracks simply because if circumstance. Not intelligence.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;48970928]Implying that just because they haven't been caught makes them all the wiser. It's not like the law is a see all catch all system, plenty of people fall through the cracks simply because if circumstance. Not intelligence.[/QUOTE] The FBI probably felt the same way about John Dillinger.

[QUOTE=zombini;48970076]Handguns are typically louder than rifles by far. Also the general low end for common cartridges in terms of loudness is the .22, and that's 134dB. Most rifle rounds are around 150dB, and big bore handgun rounds are 155-165dB. Seems like not much of a volume difference but the difference between a 5.56x45 and a .357 magnum is enough to literally rupture your eardrums. A 5.56 rifle comes in at around 155dB, while a .357 is 164dB, which is nearly an order of magnitude louder. 10dB is a 10x difference, so a .357 Magnum is 9 times louder than a 5.56 rifle.[/QUOTE] I accidentally shot my desert eagle once with the hearing protection on my right ear slightly lopsided, was deaf for half an hour in that ear. Fucking sucked.

[QUOTE=Aide;48970272]What the fucking is a silencer. I assume you mean suppressor. Shows how educated you are on guns.[/QUOTE] Way to try and look smart but still look like an idiot. Dude who invented it called it a silencer. It's semantics, I don't care.