Pope Francis says church cannot focus only on abortion and gay marriage
44 replies, posted
unitarians are better
[QUOTE=Ryu-Gi;42756997][IMG]http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/025/0/8/the_human_bean_by_cpowza.jpg[/IMG]
I'm sorry.[/QUOTE]
And a real hero?
If there is one subject MOST people don't know shit about, is about the Catholic Church.
People thinks that what Francis says is "radical" and "new", but fuck, it has been on paper for the last 100 years, when it comes to political and economical stuff. Go look it up on the compendium. There's also a whole doctrine about economic and social/state from which many, MANY, movements of the 20th century took its ideas. Peronism here in Argentina is just a carbon copy of the Church's social doctrine.
If you people think that they will allow or accept abortion, just, please fucking read something about their dogmas and theology, for fucks sake. If anything at all, it will be another split ala 1500.
And "this" guy is a Jesuit. Who joined the columns of the right wing peronism in his youth.
Unfortunately or fortunately depending on what you believe, Vattimo is right and Hegel was wrong. Yes, catholicism is "hard" thought and no, it won't be "softened/rationalized" with time.
EDIT: And more annoying is seeing people say "lol no scientific proof lol your so stupid"
[QUOTE=Anyx;42754955]It's even more amusing because what the Pope says is basically the word of God.
They went back on God's word[/QUOTE]
except in reality it's the bible which is the word of god, and that's pretty clear when it comes to these issues
[editline]5th November 2013[/editline]
although i think francis seems to be a pretty alright dude, it doesn't change that the catholic church is fundamentally flawed and i don't think any amount of alright dudes will be able to change it. organized religion just doesn't work
He's dancing around issues of doctrine in a way that almost seems disingenuous, not to say that he's outright lying or stating falsehoods, but he's being very vague when backing up his statements(at least so the article makes it seem).
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;42760050]He's dancing around issues of doctrine in a way that almost seems disingenuous, not to say that he's outright lying or stating falsehoods, but he's being very vague when backing up his statements(at least so the article makes it seem).[/QUOTE]
yeah, he's not saying if gay marriage or abortion or whatever are right or wrong, he's just saying the church can't focus on those because if they keep going against gay marriage and abortion they're going to lose in the end. but it seems wrong to not just say what he supports.
well homosexuality is a difficult subject espeacially with the places with the largest growing catholic populations being africa and south america, which are very much against same-sex rights (south america is comming along but africa has very deep homophobia) the chuch could not just come out one day and say its fine because itd be looking at a revolt from the largest branches of it. like it or not, most of the world is still very much anti-gay anti-abortion
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;42754041]Or this one cleaned the shit from his ears and was like "Oh, [I]thats[/I] what you said, sorry bout that, Boss"[/QUOTE]
that would take a jackhammer with the last one
Wow. I liked this guy since his election and damn, he just keeps getting better. It's nice to see that one of the most influential religious figures is not an archaic bigot.
[QUOTE=bIgFaTwOrM12;42760050]He's dancing around issues of doctrine in a way that almost seems disingenuous, not to say that he's outright lying or stating falsehoods, but he's being very vague when backing up his statements(at least so the article makes it seem).[/QUOTE]
He also still hasn't cleared up his shit about his relationship with the Argentine Junta - been entirely too evasive for my tastes on that subject. I'm not warming up even in the slightest until he actually talks about that or opens up church archives on this. I am referring to disappeared children, not that affair with the Jesuits.
Read the lower bits of this article.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22064929[/url]
[QUOTE=Sableye;42760227]well homosexuality is a difficult subject espeacially with the places with the largest growing catholic populations being africa and south america, which are very much against same-sex rights (south america is comming along but africa has very deep homophobia) the chuch could not just come out one day and say its fine because itd be looking at a revolt from the largest branches of it. like it or not, most of the world is still very much anti-gay anti-abortion[/QUOTE]
that's the point though, is he actually trying to make changes in the church, or just keep the status quo to ensure the church keeps as many followers as possible?
[QUOTE]that's the point though, is he actually trying to make changes in the church, or just keep the status quo to ensure the church keeps as many followers as possible?
[/QUOTE]
Changes as in: Kick out everyone who takes advantage of his position as a priest/bishop and get it (the Church) back on the preaching way.
Not changes as in: Set abortion, homosexuality, and all else to "OK/ACCEPTED".
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42761010]that's the point though, is he actually trying to make changes in the church, or just keep the status quo to ensure the church keeps as many followers as possible?[/QUOTE]
Ideally his goal would be to do what is in accordance with Christian doctrine, regardless of the consequences of church attendance or mainstream society's view of it, he seems to just be trying to hide all the stuff that's more controversial about the religion(or at least down-play it).
well abortion is probably not going to ever change there's a lot in the scriptures against it, but the doctrine on homosexuality is so much made up of dogma and so little made up of actual scripture that he could very well get the Vatican to re-evaluate its stance on that, you have to remember, most of what is yey/ney in the church is dogma, i mean the bible can't possibly cover contraceptives or medical procedures or if the earth is the center of the universe, its been interpreted by someone, and everyone else accepted it at the time when evidence didn't exist to contradict it or the question hadn't been raised yet, which has lead to dogma being built up around these issues, when there really isnt a scripture based footing and to prove a point, just look how many variations of the church are out there just from the bible that the catholic church was founded on. most of those churches were spawned in protest to the dogma or someone had a different interpretation and the main church didn't accept it.
[QUOTE=Sableye;42761639]well abortion is probably not going to ever change there's a lot in the scriptures against it, but the doctrine on homosexuality is so much made up of dogma and so little made up of actual scripture that he could very well get the Vatican to re-evaluate its stance on that, you have to remember, most of what is yey/ney in the church is dogma, i mean the bible can't possibly cover contraceptives or medical procedures or if the earth is the center of the universe, its been interpreted by someone, and everyone else accepted it at the time when evidence didn't exist to contradict it or the question hadn't been raised yet, which has lead to dogma being built up around these issues, when there really isnt a scripture based footing and to prove a point, just look how many variations of the church are out there just from the bible that the catholic church was founded on. most of those churches were spawned in protest to the dogma or someone had a different interpretation and the main church didn't accept it.[/QUOTE]
Well, doctrine on homosexual intercourse has a pretty clear scriptural base, be it through direct statements about it, the laws of marriage or the laws sexual immorality. The pope would have a pretty up-hill battle ahead of him if he did try to get rid of those doctrines. In any case a lot of the Catholic church's traditions are nothing but dogma, such as celibacy or its stance against contraception, it would be nice to see him speak up about changing that stuff. Though I suppose it's a difficult case when it comes to Catholicism as it places tradition on a pedestal in some cases even over scripture, regardless of whether the two are contradictory.
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