[QUOTE=Angry Frenchman;32433308]Nah, that's not really the only reason. I don't want to see my neighbor's wiener on my way to the drug store. That's decency for you there and it's been here for a hell of a time now.[/QUOTE]
well don't look at your neighbors dick. that's just a stupid reasoning. i don't wanna see sarah palin on TV either so that's why i just don't watch TV.
[QUOTE=Angry Frenchman;32433308]US Democrats could be compared to a French right-wing group. Considering republicans and tea-party are even worse you should ban every political group in America.[/QUOTE]
why do the french people in this thread have to bring up the US. i wasn't even born here. i don't even vote!
[QUOTE=thisispain;32433119]eh i'm a pro-choice feminist.
telling other people their culture is wrong isn't going to stop homophobia. i think you're confusing the issue.
and yes i'm pro-multiculturalism because i'm not an asshole and hate things i don't know anything about.[/QUOTE]
Well the Islamic culture in general is homophobic, I've in person talked with tons of muslims who thinks homosexuality is wrong and something that shouldn't be tolerated. Kinda like Christian groups in the US. If the Swedish Christian groups were as homophobic as the Swedish Islamic groups then I would be just as critical of them, but they aren't since Christianity in Sweden in very secularised.
The Islamic culture in general also thinks that women are of less value, in the muslim enclaves in my city fathers of muslim women forces then to wear veils, won't let them be a part of sex ed. in school and so on.
Another thing worth mentioning is the Anti Semitism in the Islamic groups, In my city which has a very large muslim minority they are responsible for the majority of hate crimes against Jews here, Right-Wing extremists responsible for this are a minority.
And don't tell me I'm a hateful asshole who doesn't know what I'm talking about, One of my best friends is a muslim. Of course not every muslim believes in these values but trust me a lot do. In any case I don't feel hateful at all.
[QUOTE=Folstream;32433402]
And don't tell me I'm a hateful asshole who doesn't know what I'm talking about, One of my best friends is a muslim. Of course not every muslim believes in these values but trust me a lot do. In any case I don't feel hateful at all.[/QUOTE]
well exactly. if the respect for both cultures is mutual both cultures will learn. if you aggressively throw one culture at another you'll create tension. this is what happened in the US between the black culture and what was considered "mainstream" culture.
guys like miles davis were so utterly mistreated and disrespected simply because one culture viewed the other culture as vile and unworthy. all miles davis wanted to do is play jazz.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
the government shouldn't legislate cultures, that's not the reason we have a government. we have a government to provide for public safety on the behalf of those people which includes many different cultures.
It's really stupid how people justify this with "I don't enjoy seeing people wearing that". Why does it even matter if you enjoy looking at it, or if you think it doesn't fit with the rest. That's not a reason to ban it.
I can understand if certain buildings, stores etc don't want people to enter with their faces covered, I don't fully agree with it, but there is some sense in that. But in public it makes no fucking sense.
Religion should not even be pulled into this. A face veil is a face veil, whether you wear it because of your religion or because you feel like it.
[QUOTE=BrQ;32433461]
I can understand if certain buildings, stores etc don't want people to enter with their faces covered, I don't fully agree with it, but there is some sense in that.[/QUOTE]
yeah but if they do i don't understand why the government needs to get involved with it.
[QUOTE=BrQ;32433461]It's really stupid how people justify this with "I don't enjoy seeing people wearing that". Why does it even matter if you enjoy looking at it, or if you think it doesn't fit with the rest. That's not a reason to ban it.
I can understand if certain buildings, stores etc don't want people to enter with their faces covered, I don't fully agree with it, but there is some sense in that. But in public it makes no fucking sense.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think stores and other venues that offer a public service should be able to ban them either.
Private [i]residence?[/i] Absolutely.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32433431]well exactly. if the respect for both cultures is mutual both cultures will learn. if you aggressively throw one culture at another you'll create tension. this is what happened in the US between the black culture and what was considered "mainstream" culture.
guys like miles davis were so utterly mistreated and disrespected simply because one culture viewed the other culture as vile and unworthy. all miles davis wanted to do is play jazz.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
the government shouldn't legislate cultures, that's not the reason we have a government. we have a government to provide for public safety on the behalf of those people which includes many different cultures.[/QUOTE]
Legislature might not be needed, seeing as Sweden never have done that yet assimilated immigrant groups successfully before. I still think the burka/niqab should be banned in public just like any other kind of face covering clothing. I mean Sweden already forbade the masking your face during demonstrations in order to cope with people starting and participating in violent riots yet there was no uproar over that. At least not on the scale as the burka/niqab debate has.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32433535]I don't think stores and other venues that offer a public service should be able to ban them either.
Private [i]residence?[/i] Absolutely.[/QUOTE]
I don't either, but banning them certain stores makes at least a little sense compared to banning them in public
[QUOTE=Folstream;32433593] I still think the burka/niqab should be banned in public just like any other kind of face covering clothing.[/QUOTE]
if there's significant evidence that a burqa/niqab ban would reduce robberies only then could you make it a "public safety" issue, otherwise it's just government sponsored disapproval of a religious practice that doesn't hurt anyone.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32433644]if there's significant evidence that a burqa/niqab ban would reduce robberies only then could you make it a "public safety" issue, otherwise it's just government sponsored disapproval of a religious practice that doesn't hurt anyone.[/QUOTE]
It's about more than a public safety issue though. It's about which way we want our society to go. I don't think having people covering themselves from top to toe is the right way to bring our society forward, no matter if it's religious or any other reason, men or women. I wouldn't feel comfortable at all in such a society and I think a lot of people agree.
[QUOTE=Folstream;32433845]I don't think having people covering themselves from top to toe is the right way to bring our society forward, no matter if it's religious or any other reason, men or women. I wouldn't feel comfortable at all in such a society and I think a lot of people agree.[/QUOTE]
then that's your own view but what happens when you start putting this view into an institution like the government is that you stifle any view not to your own.
part of a democracy is respecting the rights of the minority. you have no right to do something simply because by numbers you outnumber someone else.
if sweden had such a mob-rule mentality earlier on, gay-rights, feminism, and anti-racism would have been crushed because ultimately the people in that time did not agree with it and felt uncomfortable with it too.
You now by "public place" they don't mean the street right ?
They mean public buildings. Stores, hospitals, banks, post offices, town halls, whatever.
[editline]23rd September 2011[/editline]
The street has its own status regarding the law
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424571]I'm religophobic, unless it's a religion where it's not a major issue if other people don't believe it.
Most religions have this conception that they are the [b]ONE TRUE RELIGION[/b], that [b]EVERYTHING ELSE IS WRONG[/b] and that [b]EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD BE PUNISHED[/b].[/QUOTE]
It's OK to be everything but religious, anything but that
[quote="SCopE5000"]
I'm religophobic, unless it's a religion where it's not a major issue if other people don't believe it.
Most religions have this conception that they are the ONE TRUE RELIGION, that EVERYTHING ELSE IS WRONG and that EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD BE PUNISHED.
[/quote]
Religion is about helping and accepting people whoever they are. Dumb fucks in the middle age who could barely read their holy book skipped that part and started claiming non-believers should be burnt and shit.
The problem isn't religion, it's people.
[quote]She claims she once wore mini-skirts and liked to party before she rediscovered her faith.[/quote]
This is the type of stuff that makes religion sound even more like a load of bullshit.
"Oh, I used to believe in this one god...then I found out that I really like this other god, so I'm going to change my ways."
Also maybe lets not forget that wearing that thing is a hypocrite action anyway? Especially when men insist on it?
I still don't get how people can believe in " Hey only I have the right to see your face/hair"
Also if anyone forces a woman to wear a niqab/hijab she/he gets a fine of 30 000€ and some prison time.
[QUOTE=Folstream;32433593]Legislature might not be needed, seeing as Sweden never have done that yet assimilated immigrant groups successfully before. I still think the burka/niqab should be banned in public just like any other kind of face covering clothing.[/QUOTE]
Quick question, are skimasks banned here in Sweden?
I want to get a skimask. Not because I plan on doing any robberies and stuff, but because winter last year was fucking unbearable and I don't want to keep freezing my face off like that.
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