French women face fine over niqab - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32423817]In some countries the Hijab is enforced. The difference is, if you turned up there without one, they wouldn't ask you to remove it nicely or give you a petty fine:- Take that to the court of human rights, if anything.[/QUOTE] yep. it's ok for us to attack peoples right so long as somebody, somewhere in the world is attacking people's rights harder. [editline]22nd September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Simski;32423861]It may be xenophobic, but it is the truth. At least from what I've heard by the other statements in news threads regarding this ban. French people are proud of their culture and they don't want to be a multicultural country, they want to be Frenchmen. This ban is their way of saying "You are welcome to stay here, but please act like one of us".[/QUOTE] that's really not an acceptable justification for an attack on the rights of a group of people

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;32423932]that's really not an acceptable justification for an attack on the rights of a group of people[/QUOTE] Mjeh, as long as nudists are forced to wear clothes in public then I'm fine with this kind of ban.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;32423932]yep. it's ok for us to attack peoples right so long as somebody, somewhere in the world is attacking people's rights harder.[/QUOTE] I never said it was in any case. My point is, if you're gonna cry 'court of human rights' you should be facing the worst injustices first, rather than just bring it up because it's closer to home.

I mean if it is to be considered indecent to walk around naked even though it is part of your desired lifestyle, then I think it is justified that it is to be considered indecent to walk around with a niqab concealing your face even though it is part of your desired lifestyle. This ban is no more oppressing to Islamic women than laws against public indecency is oppressing to nudists.

[QUOTE=Kalibos;32423897]how empathetic of you. "you're lucky I even recognize your right to pray and walk on this street!" so in your opinion it's not enough that they integrate into the society in every [other] way that counts? they learn the language, get jobs, pay taxes, send their children to school, pollute the environment, but wearing that veil is [B]crossing the fucking line.[/B][/QUOTE] Yep. We're already doing them a huge favor by letting them live here. And yes, that veil is a big deal, among other things, like causing traffic jams when they need to pray to their imaginary friend. Funny how everyone in this thread who is against this law is from countries that don't have that many Muslims.

[QUOTE=Simski;32424040]Mjeh, as long as nudists are forced to wear clothes in public then I'm fine with this kind of ban.[/QUOTE] on one hand, nudists have to wear clothes to prevent your five year old daughter from seeing my grandfather's 80 year old schlong. on the other, muslims cannot wear full face veils because it doesn't fit the french culture yes, i see your point. the two are very alike

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424071]I never said it was in any case. My point is, if you're gonna cry 'court of human rights' you should be facing the worst injustices first, rather than just bring it up because it's closer to home.[/QUOTE] i don't see why we can't complain about all human rights abuses? because there certainly isn't any lack of criticism of saudi arabian or pakistani human rights abuses on here. you're not really saying anything.

[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424092]on one hand, nudists have to wear clothes to prevent your five year old daughter from seeing my grandfather's 80 year old schlong. on the other, muslims cannot wear full face veils because it doesn't fit the french culture yes, i see your point. the two are very alike[/QUOTE] In the same way people find it unpleasant to look at 80 year old mans schlong even though it isn't doing you any harm, a lot of people might find it unsettling to stand face to face with what looks like a female ninja.

[QUOTE=Maxx;32424080]Yep. We're already doing them a huge favor by letting them live here. [/QUOTE] thbbbt [QUOTE=Maxx;32424080]Funny how everyone in this thread who is against this law is from countries that don't have that many Muslims.[/QUOTE] you're saying that if i actually lived in a country with a lot of muslims my view on human rights would change, to which I respond with thbbbt

[QUOTE=Maxx;32424080]Funny how everyone in this thread who is against this law is from countries that don't have that many Muslims.[/QUOTE] canada has an enormous amount of multiculturalism in BC and ontario. also what does that even have to do with anything?

[QUOTE=Maxx;32424080]Yep. We're already doing them a huge favor by letting them live here. And yes, that veil is a big deal, among other things, like causing traffic jams when they need to pray to their imaginary friend. Funny how everyone in this thread who is against this law is from countries that don't have that many Muslims.[/QUOTE] [img]http://flagdog.facepunchstudios.com/?ipe=5973e96dd218b47ed369453ee52b82a9[/img] Go away, Romania. Nobody likes you, you gypsy-spawning bastards- what with your poverty and your caravans.

[QUOTE=Simski;32424118]In the same way people find it unpleasant to look at 80 year old mans schlong even though it isn't doing you any harm, a lot of people might find it unsettling to stand face to face with what looks like a female ninja.[/QUOTE] you're [I]really[/I] pushing it

If a fundamentalist Christian went around shooting people who mow their lawns on a Sunday, for working on the Lords day, would that be acceptable? My point is, the law and religion are separate. Religions base a lot of their 'moral laws and civility' on age-old prophecy which can simply [b]not[/b] exist in today's society for obvious reasons. The law is the law, you shouldn't be able to bypass that because you feel like being an edgy rebel. [editline]22nd September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Kalibos;32424092]on one hand, nudists have to wear clothes to prevent your five year old daughter from seeing my grandfather's 80 year old schlong. on the other, muslims cannot wear full face veils because it doesn't fit the french culture yes, i see your point. the two are very alike[/QUOTE] They are identical, you're just looking at it from a viewpoint where it matters what's being worn, rather than how it stands, physically. Nudist - Wears clothing (or lack of) that is frowned upon/enforced by law Muslim - Wears clothing (or lack of) that is frowned upon/enforced by law

[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;32424140][img]http://flagdog.facepunchstudios.com/?ipe=5973e96dd218b47ed369453ee52b82a9[/img] Go away, Romania. Nobody likes you, you gypsy-spawning bastards- what with your poverty and your caravans.[/QUOTE] I'm actually from Moldova but FP sees it as Romania. Edit: And we don't have as many gypsies and caravans.

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424164]If a fundamentalist Christian went around shooting people who mow their lawns on a Sunday, for working on the Lords day, would that be acceptable?[/QUOTE] i'm sorry i know you made your point on the next line but it makes no sense so could you clear this up for me? what does this mean? [QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424164]My point is, the law and religion are separate. Religions base a lot of their 'moral laws and civility' on age-old prophecy which can simply [b]not[/b] exist in today's society for obvious reasons. The law is the law, you shouldn't be able to bypass that because you feel like being an edgy rebel.[/QUOTE] they aren't doing it to be 'edgy rebels' they're doing it because they believe in their faith. it's a bullshit religious rights violation and wearing veils isn't hurting anybody also to be clear they aren't bypassing it. they're going to trial and they're going to drag it up to the highest court they can and hopefully get this stupid shit repealed

[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424211]they aren't doing it to be 'edgy rebels' they're doing it because they believe in their faith. it's a bullshit religious rights violation and wearing veils isn't hurting anybody[/QUOTE] Well, nudists are doing it because it's part of their lifestyle and they feel that clothes are uncomfortable and unnatural. Likewise, them being naked also does not hurt anybody at all. Unless by "hurting" you imply "making people uncomfortable", which then still apply to people covering up their faces.

Hey maam, you were driving erratically, can I see your drivers licence please? Well, I can't check your face to see if this is actually your licence, but nevermind, you can go. Hey maam, can I see your passport so you can board this plane? Well, I can't check your face to see if this is actually your passport, but nevermind, you can go. Hey maam, you want to buy alcohol? Can I see some ID? Well, I can't check your face to see if this is actually your ID, but nevermind, you can have it anyway. Also, this just looks fucking intimidating. [img]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__EL2EvKO2so/SYuCBHi_loI/AAAAAAAAKQM/lxBNzBzZsFI/s400/Full+Niqab-Hijab.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424164] They are identical, you're just looking at it from a viewpoint where it matters what's being worn, rather than how it stands, physically. Nudist - Wears clothing (or lack of) that is frowned upon/enforced by law Muslim - Wears clothing (or lack of) that is frowned upon/enforced by law[/QUOTE] hehe but you have to take into account the reason that they're frowned upon (yes it matters) 80 year old tits and vaginas and dicks violates public indecency laws (exposing oneself to children for example). nobody wants their five year old exposed to that kind of thing. it's potentially harmful muslim women covering their face with a veil isn't hurting anyone. it's only a law because the people and the state are discriminatory towards muslims. "it's uncomfortable to talk to them" or "it could be dangerous" are bullshit rationalizations after the fact to make people feel better about being prejudiced.

[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424283]hehe but you have to take into account the reason that they're frowned upon (yes it matters) 80 year old tits and vaginas and dicks violates public indecency laws (exposing oneself to children for example). nobody wants their five year old exposed to that kind of thing. it's potentially harmful muslim women covering their face with a veil isn't hurting anyone. it's only a law because the people and the state are discriminatory towards muslims. "it's uncomfortable to talk to them" or "it could be dangerous" are bullshit rationalizations after the fact to make people feel better about being prejudiced.[/QUOTE] I know some kids that would have nightmares for weeks after seeing a grim-reaper figure cloaked entirely in black staggering around a supermarket. Much more so than seeing someone calm and relaxed on a beach with tits out for example. Hell, I doubt the kid would even notice any difference between that and, say, someone clad in a bikini, because there's very little difference.

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424273]Hey maam, you were driving erratically, can I see your drivers licence please? Well, I can't check your face to see if this is actually your licence, but nevermind, you can go. Hey maam, can I see your passport so you can board this plane? Well, I can't check your face to see if this is actually your passport, but nevermind, you can go. Hey maam, you want to buy alcohol? Can I see some ID? Well, I can't check your face to see if this is actually your ID, but nevermind, you can have it anyway.[/QUOTE] being parts of daily life all of those situations have common solutions that a quick google search will fill you in on so you're literally saying nothing at all

[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424283]hehe but you have to take into account the reason that they're frowned upon (yes it matters) 80 year old tits and vaginas and dicks violates public indecency laws (exposing oneself to children for example). nobody wants their five year old exposed to that kind of thing. it's potentially harmful muslim women covering their face with a veil isn't hurting anyone. it's only a law because the people and the state are discriminatory towards muslims. "it's uncomfortable to talk to them" or "it could be dangerous" are bullshit rationalizations after the fact to make people feel better about being prejudiced.[/QUOTE] It's all a matter of what we are used to. Children aren't used to seeing people naked since people usually aren't allowed to be naked. Children can also find people in niqabs scary because they're large dark faceless figures.

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424331]I know some kids that would have nightmares for weeks after seeing a grim-reaper figure cloaked entirely in black staggering around a supermarket.[/QUOTE] kids have nightmares about everything. first of all, wrinkled old vaginas are scarier than the grim reaper in the ice cream aisle. second, he's gonna have nightmares about the grim reaper and voldemort and scooby doo anyway so so what [QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424331]Much more so than seeing someone calm and relaxed on a beach with tits out for example. Hell, I doubt the kid would even notice any difference between that and, say, someone clad in a bikini, because there's very little difference.[/QUOTE] why is your child at a nude beach

[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424375]kids have nightmares about everything. first of all, wrinkled old vaginas are scarier than the grim reaper in the ice cream aisle. [/QUOTE] No, that's your opinion since you are not used to seeing people naked. Nudist people don't find other nudist people revolting because usually they have grown up without being taught to think of the human body as something to be disgusted by.

[QUOTE=Simski;32424374]It's all a matter of what we are used to. Children aren't used to seeing people naked since people usually aren't allowed to be naked. Children can also find people in niqabs scary because they're large dark faceless figures.[/QUOTE] i guarantee you a child is going to be more uncomfortable around a naked old man than a woman with a burka

I think honestly, until the majority of people sort themselves out on a metaphysical level, there is no real solution to these ongoing problems.

[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424375]why is your child at a nude beach[/QUOTE] Probably because the parents are nudists, it is not at all uncommon for whole families to be nudists

[QUOTE=Simski;32424389]No, that's your opinion since you are not used to seeing people naked. Nudist people don't find other nudist people naked because usually they have grown up without being taught to think of the human body as something to be disgusted by.[/QUOTE] okay so you're just splitting hairs now we're not talking specifically about that tiny tiny section of society that are nudists and their children, we're talking about society at large and muslims which are a pretty hefty minority normal kids in normal society will find wrinkled old vaginas scarier than the grim reaper in the ice cream aisle

[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424413]okay so you're just splitting hairs now we're not talking specifically about that tiny tiny section of society that are nudists and their children, we're talking about society at large and muslims which are a pretty hefty minority normal kids in normal society will find wrinkled old vaginas scarier than the grim reaper in the ice cream aisle[/QUOTE] But a large amount of people will still find people in burkas and shit to be unsettling none the less, not to mention provoking. Also, people would NOT think of naked people as scary if people were allowed to be naked in public long enough that a generation could grow up without being taught that the human body is something disgusting that needs to be hidden away.

[QUOTE=Simski;32424427]But a large amount of people will still find people in burkas and shit to be unsettling none the less, not to mention provoking. [/QUOTE] so we come back to "it's not nice to look at" or "it could be dangerous". as sigma said that's not a legitimate reason to attack a minority group's rights. that's a bullshit attempt at a justification to make you feel like something other than a 'scriminator

[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424394]I think honestly, until the majority of people sort themselves out on a metaphysical level, there is no real solution to these ongoing problems.[/QUOTE] And what I mean by this is, stop being controlled by religion and live their own lives.