Does it even say anywhere in the Quran that a women must hide her face or is it another made up thing by someone who then convinces everyone thats what a Muslim women must do?
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424454]so we come back to "it's not nice to look at" or "it could be dangerous". as sigma said that's not a legitimate reason to attack a minority group's rights. that's a bullshit attempt at a justification to make you feel like something other than a 'scriminator[/QUOTE]
Says the one that thinks laws against public nudity are justified by old peoples vaginas and penises being disgusting to look at.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424456]And what I mean by this is, stop being controlled by religion and live their own lives.[/QUOTE] lol they ARE living their own lives and religion is a big part of it and there's nothing wrong with that
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Simski;32424467]Says the one that thinks laws against public nudity are justified by old peoples vaginas and penises being disgusting to look at.[/QUOTE]
nope i never said that
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424479]lol they ARE living their own lives and religion is a big part of it and there's nothing wrong with that[/QUOTE]
Then there is nothing wrong with being a nudist since they are just living their own lives and being naked is a big part of their lifestyle.
As long as not being allowed to be naked in public is not oppression against the nudists desired lifestyle, then not being allowed to wear a niqab in public is not an oppression against Islamic women's faith.
If you were forced into religion dogma from a young age, I'd hardly call that living your own life.
[QUOTE=Simski;32424496]Then there is nothing wrong with being a nudist since they are just living their own lives and being naked is a big part of their lifestyle.
As long as not being allowed to be naked in public is not oppression against the nudists desired lifestyle, then not being allowed to wear a niqab in public is not an oppression against Islamic women's faith.[/QUOTE]
go read through my posts about nudists again because I don't think you understand my comparison
YOUR* comparison
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;32424499]If you were forced into religion dogma from a young age, I'd hardly call that living your own life.[/QUOTE]
not understanding religion myself I can't comment, but it's central to billions of peoples' lives so I guess I'll ask why not?
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424527]go read through my posts about nudists again because I don't think you understand my comparison[/QUOTE]
You made a bullshit comparison about laws against public nudity is justified by you and other people finding old peoples genitalia disgusting. I think that if that justifies public nudity not being legal, then the large amount of French people finding niqabs to be unsettling, uncultural and weird to be just as good of a justification to have laws against it.
[QUOTE=Simski;32424544]You made a bullshit comparison about laws against public nudity is justified by you and other people finding old peoples genitalia disgusting.[/QUOTE]
no i didn't.
This is so closet islamophobic it hurts
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424527]not understanding religion myself I can't comment, but it's central to billions of peoples' lives so I guess I'll ask why not?[/QUOTE]
Because the people of France finds it to be unsettling, rude, and anti-cultural. Because if it weren't for this ban, they would take more drastic measures to keep their culture intact, such as by making stricter laws against French citizenship and immigration.
[QUOTE=Red scout?;32424554]This is so closet islamophobic it hurts[/QUOTE]
I'm religophobic, unless it's a religion where it's not a major issue if other people don't believe it.
Most religions have this conception that they are the [b]ONE TRUE RELIGION[/b], that [b]EVERYTHING ELSE IS WRONG[/b] and that [b]EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD BE PUNISHED[/b].
[QUOTE=Simski;32424557]Because the people of France finds it to be unsettling, rude, and anti-cultural.[/QUOTE]
once again that's very xenophobic but your answer doesn't make any sense in the context of my question
[QUOTE=Red scout?;32424554]This is so closet islamophobic it hurts[/QUOTE]
I'm fine with Muslims, or any religions. As long as they keep their shit to themselves and don't impose their bullshit beliefs on others. If they want to live in France, then they should be prepared to act like the people around them. If their religion requires them to do something that goes against the social standards of the country they live in, then they should not have fucking moved there.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424573]once again that's very xenophobic but your answer doesn't make any sense in the context of my question[/QUOTE]
Improve your grammar then so I won't be confused. I thought your question was "why should they not be allowed to wear it?".
[QUOTE=Simski;32424594]
Improve your grammar then so I won't be confused. I thought your question was "why should they not be allowed to wear it?".[/QUOTE]
ad hominem
[quote=scope5000]If you were forced into religion dogma from a young age, I'd hardly call that living your own life.[/quote]
[quote=kalibos]why not?[/quote]
there was nothing confusing about this question
[QUOTE=Simski;32424594][B]As long as they keep their shit to themselves and don't impose their bullshit beliefs on others[/B].[/QUOTE]
That is straight fucking irony right there.
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424626]ad hominem[/QUOTE]
No, an ad hominem requires that you have an argument that I can reply to. If your sentence is fucking intelligible, then me calling it bad grammar is not an ad hominem, it is you being fucking bad at grammar.
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424626]there was nothing confusing about this question [/QUOTE]
It's not confusing when you remove every part of your sentence but that, why didn't you do that in the first place?
[quote]not understanding religion myself I can't comment, but it's central to billions of peoples' lives [/quote]
This shit is what made me think you were actually discussing the topic at hand
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=RichardCQ;32424658]That is straight fucking irony right there.[/QUOTE]
If you own an apartment, and your girlfriend moves in, is it so fucking wrong to ask her not to keep her pet alligator indoors?
[QUOTE=Simski;32424660]
If you own an apartment, and your girlfriend moved in, is it so fucking wrong to ask her not to keep her pet crocodile indoors?[/QUOTE]
How is a face-covering any way like A PET CROCODILE?
Furthermore, them wearing their Niqabs or whatever they're called is not [B]imposing their beliefs on others[/B] unless they're actually forcing you to wear one. The french government is the one with belief imposition.
Its just really uncomfortable not being able to see someones face.
[QUOTE=RichardCQ;32424682]How is a face-covering any way like A PET CROCODILE?
Furthermore, them wearing their Niqabs or whatever they're called is not [B]imposing their beliefs on others[/B] unless they're actually forcing you to wear one. The french government is the one with belief imposition.[/QUOTE]
The Islamic people are bringing something into France which the France people don't want there. The people of France finds it abnormal to cover your face in public and they find it unsettling to talk to people who you can't see the face of. That to me sounds like a good excuse to why people should not wear things that cover their face in public unless they have a very good reason to (such as things having to do with your health or your profession). France is not an Islamic country, if Islamic people want to freely express their faith in public then they can do that in an Islamic country.
If there is nothing wrong with nudists not being allowed to enjoy their lifestyle in public, then the same laws should apply to Islamic people.
[QUOTE=Simski;32424660]No, an ad hominem requires that you have an argument that I can reply to. If your sentence is fucking intelligible, then me calling it bad grammar is not an ad hominem, it is you being fucking bad at grammar.[/QUOTE]
alright take it easy
my grammar has nothing to do with it. there was nothing in this line
[quote]not understanding religion myself I can't comment, but it's central to billions of peoples' lives so I guess I'll ask why not?[/quote]
to suggest I was asking the question "why should they not be allowed to wear it?" especially since the line directly above it I quoted the statement
[quote]If you were forced into religion dogma from a young age, I'd hardly call that living your own life.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Simski;32424660]It's not confusing when you remove every part of your sentence but that, why didn't you do that in the first place?[/QUOTE]
it was unnecessary
[QUOTE=Simski;32424660]This shit is what made me think you were actually discussing the topic at hand[/QUOTE]
again, i don't know why since i quoted what i was responding to
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Simski;32424710]France is not an Islamic country[/QUOTE]
france has freedom of religion lol
[QUOTE=Simski;32424710]If there is nothing wrong with nudists not being allowed to enjoy their lifestyle in public, then the same laws should apply to Islamic people.[/QUOTE]
you keep coming back to this but you still haven't re-read my posts regarding the subject or you have and have chosen to ignore them
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424721]you keep coming back to this but you still haven't re-read my posts regarding my subject or you have and have chosen to ignore them[/QUOTE]
I didn't ignore them, I just never saw an argument that countered any of my statements and therefor I have no reason not to believe it is a viable argument.
you said
[quote]You made a bullshit comparison about laws against public nudity is justified by you and other people finding old peoples genitalia disgusting.[/quote]
which i didn't
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424794]you said
which i didn't[/QUOTE]
Oh really?
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424092]on one hand, nudists have to wear clothes to prevent your five year old daughter from seeing my grandfather's 80 year old schlong. on the other, muslims cannot wear full face veils because it doesn't fit the french culture
yes, i see your point. the two are very alike[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424283]hehe but you have to take into account the reason that they're frowned upon (yes it matters)
80 year old tits and vaginas and dicks violates public indecency laws (exposing oneself to children for example). nobody wants their five year old exposed to that kind of thing. it's potentially harmful[/quote]
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424375]kids have nightmares about everything. first of all, wrinkled old vaginas are scarier than the grim reaper in the ice cream aisle. second, he's gonna have nightmares about the grim reaper and voldemort and scooby doo anyway so so what[/QUOTE]
where in any of those posts do i justify laws against public nudity with the rationale that I find old weiners gross? my concern is the well-being of children (raping murdering [B]naked[/B] pedophile clowns)
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424850]where in any of those posts do i justify laws against public nudity with the rationale that I find old weiners gross? my concern is the well-being of children (raping murdering pedophile clowns)[/QUOTE]
People being naked does not mean they are more likely to rape people.
If we're going to ban nudity because it could potentially be misused to cause harm, then the same should apply to niqabs.
If they wear the niqab by choice they should have even less problems with taking it away than someone who can get beaten up to death by her husband because she's not wearing it.
Plus, the law only applies to the very precise Niqab - a cloth that covers the entire body, except the eyes. As long as everyone can see your face and recognize you, you're fine.
A lot of Muslim women have simply accepted it and changed to a Hijab or another veil that covers the body and most of the head except the face (can't remember its name), and they don't see any problem with that.
It's not because 91 women refuse to respect the law and show their face (which in the Quran isn't described as a grave act) that the law is suddenly too harsh or whatever. Tbh I only see these 91 women as butthurt attention whores only wearing the thing because it's illegal and it's supposedly making them feminists because the law is applying to niqabs, which is a type of clothing that women are wearing or some shit like that.
[QUOTE=Simski;32424870]People being naked does not mean they are more likely to rape people.
If we're going to ban nudity because it could potentially be misused to cause harm, then the same should apply to niqabs.[/QUOTE]
i did not claim it does - although you have to admit, being naked sure takes out the middleman (undressing). it was what we call in the business an exaggeration, much like the exaggerated harms of face veils
however i would like to point out that due to the way our society (most societies) has evolved, nudity [I]is[/I] seen as harmful to children despite the fact that the body is natural and the occurance of raping murdering pedophile clowns is probably quite low. society has felt that exposing their kids to nudity before a certain age is harmful for a long time. face veils, not so much. that's just religion.
Showing your dick is indecency, it's illegal because it's just extremely vulgar, in the same way you can't be obviously drunk in the street.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32424873]It's not because 91 women refuse to respect the law and show their face (which in the Quran isn't described as a grave act) that the law is suddenly too harsh or whatever. Tbh I only see these 91 women as butthurt attention whores only wearing the thing because it's illegal and it's supposedly making them feminists because the law is applying to niqabs, which is a type of clothing that women are wearing or some shit like that.[/QUOTE]
maybe their husbands will beat them if they don't
Also :
[img]http://lereacdecomplexe.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/burqa_hijab.jpg[/img]
Both are face veils.
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