[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424948]however i would like to point out that due to the way our society (most societies) has evolved, nudity [I]is[/I] seen as harmful to children despite the fact that the body is natural and the occurance of raping murdering pedophile clowns is probably quite low. society has felt that exposing their kids to nudity before a certain age is harmful for a long time. face veils, not so much. that's just religion.[/QUOTE]
In the same way, people view different religions, ethnicities and sexualities as harmful.
We're used to it being wrong, and that's why we think it is wrong. I don't think being naked is anymore wrong than wearing a niqab.
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32424978]maybe their husbands will beat them if they don't[/QUOTE]
If a woman get beaten up because she doesn't wear the Burqa or the Niqab, people won't even notice it, given she starts wearing it again. The goal of banning integral veils is also for people to notice she's getting beaten up and give advice to the woman about dumping her shitty-ass husband, suing him for mistreating and stopping being so damn submissive.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32424973]Showing your dick is indecency, it's illegal because it's just extremely vulgar[/QUOTE]
yes it's really apples and oranges because it plays on deeply-ingrained societal taboos. the children thing was just the example that most readily came to my mind.
the veil thing, however, don't play on the same taboos
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32424985]Also :
[img]http://lereacdecomplexe.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/burqa_hijab.jpg[/img]
Both are face veils.[/QUOTE]
All the names on these veils keep confusing me really, although this does clear it up a little bit.
[sp]I find Hijabs very sexy[/sp] :v:
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32425010]yes it's really apples and oranges because it plays on deeply-ingrained societal taboos. the children thing was just the example that most readily came to my mind.
the veil thing, however, don't play on the same taboos[/QUOTE]
The veil can be used to hide injuries caused by a heavy-handed husband, can hide identity (yay fraud), is disrespect towards other people (not showing your face might be a sign of nobleness where the Niqab comes from, here it just means you have to hide something and that you estimate people aren't worthy of seeing your face. It's pretty much as insulting as if you're ignoring completely someone that wants to talk with you) and is seen (probably wrongly for a few cases like these 91 women) as a way to imprison women, which is rather true given a lot of teens with arab origins were firstly given money in order to wear the niqab, then beaten up if they stopped wearing it.
[QUOTE=Keyblockor;32423359]It covers the entire fucking face, what's so hard to understand.
Try covering your entire face and just try to walk into a store, you'll no doubt get a hostile reaction telling you to leave even if you're browsing, there was even a video of it where in a mall soon as the person wearing the Balacava walked near the stores the employee's/owners would tell him to get the fuck away or they'd call the police.
Allowing someone to wear this will end up having criminals exploit this by pretending to be religious, and then once they're in a store they can easily go up and rob the employee and get away with the face veil on.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget about stockings
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37X4WAmwiJQ[/media]
[QUOTE=Simski;32424991]In the same way, people view different religions, ethnicities and sexualities as harmful.[/QUOTE]
absolutely
[QUOTE=Simski;32424991]We're used to it being wrong, and that's why we think it is wrong. I don't think being naked is anymore wrong than wearing a niqab.[/QUOTE]
neither do I because the human body is as natural as it gets however it is considered very indecent in public and it's silly to even pretend in any realm of reason that the burqa is anywhere close to that
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32425054]The veil can be used to hide injuries caused by a heavy-handed husband, can hide identity (yay fraud), is disrespect towards other people (not showing your face might be a sign of nobleness where the Niqab comes from, here it just means you have to hide something and that you estimate people aren't worthy of seeing your face. It's pretty much as insulting as if you're ignoring completely someone that wants to talk with you) and is seen (probably wrongly for a few cases like these 91 women) as a way to imprison women, which is rather true given a lot of teens with arab origins were firstly given money in order to wear the niqab, then beaten up if they stopped wearing it.[/QUOTE]
people wouldn't have a problem with someone walking around in a chewbacca costume all day long
Its good knowing Facepunch is utterly racist and intolerant of both the Muslim Race and Islamic Practices. Yes guys, we should compromise freedom and expression of both indivudality, speech, and religion, for some safety.
It's understandable, but fuck it. May as well remove all clothing and make everyone wear standard uniforms with no pockets or hoods or anything, for maximum safety.
Remember this quote from Benjamin Franklin
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Also pro-tip, Niqabs let you see their nose and eyes, and some wear it so you can see their upper face, Hijabs let you see their entire face. You're all problaby thinking of the Burka, which completely covers their face.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
Oh and guys, if somehow allowing a smaller sub-culture or religion to mingle and mix with your country completely destroys your culture, you probably have a really shitty culture.
[QUOTE=Kalibos;32425073]people wouldn't have a problem with someone walking around in a chewbacca costume all day long[/QUOTE]
You can't wear a full costume in the street if it's not Mardi Gras or if you're not clearly doing that for a special occasion (like at a movie or whatever).
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=doommarine23;32425090]Its good knowing Facepunch is utterly racist and intolerant of both the Muslim Race and Islamic Practices. Yes guys, we should compromise freedom and expression of both indivudality, speech, and religion, for some safety.
It's understandable, but fuck it. May as well remove all clothing and make everyone wear standard uniforms with no pockets or hoods or anything, for maximum safety.
Remember this quote from Benjamin Franklin
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Also pro-tip, Niqabs let you see their nose and eyes, and some wear it so you can see their upper face, Hijabs let you see their entire face. You're all problaby thinking of the Burka, which completely covers their face.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
Oh and guys, if somehow allowing a smaller sub-culture or religion to mingle and mix with your country completely destroys your culture, you probably have a really shitty culture.[/QUOTE]
How about you stop exaggerating so much, stop calling the Muslims a race and start realizing that we got enough issues with the damn thing to consider it a legal issue.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32425109]You can't wear a full costume in the street if it's not Mardi Gras or if you're not clearly doing that for a special occasion (like at a movie or whatever).[/QUOTE]
wow you guys are dicks
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32425109]You can't wear a full costume in the street if it's not Mardi Gras or if you're not clearly doing that for a special occasion (like at a movie or whatever).
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
How about you stop exaggerating so much, stop calling the Muslims a race and start realizing that we got enough issues with the damn thing to consider it a legal issue.[/QUOTE]
Muslims are to an extent a race, bit of a big generalization, but I hope you realize people from those countries are you know, a different race. Also, I really don't care what issues you have, safety is understandable, but freedom is more important.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
Oh and pro-tip, you're racist and discriminatory (maybe not you, but in general). Because I've seen a lot of people here say "fuck you muslims go back to your islamic shit holes".
Really, Facepunch? Great Liberalism.
That's like saying Christians are a race because they're predominately white...
[QUOTE=angelangel;32425205]That's like saying Christians are a race because they're predominately white...[/QUOTE]
I'm using muslim as a general term, yes. But that doesn't stop that a whole lot of you are all discriminatory. I don't care either way.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;32425171]Muslims are to an extent a race, bit of a big generalization, but I hope you realize people from those countries are you know, a different race. Also, I really don't care what issues you have, safety is understandable, but freedom is more important.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
Oh and pro-tip, you're racist and discriminatory (maybe not you, but in general). Because I've seen a lot of people here say "fuck you muslims go back to your islamic shit holes".
Really, Facepunch? Great Liberalism.[/QUOTE]
They aren't a race, stop being dense
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;32425230]They aren't a race, stop being dense[/QUOTE]
Race or not, Perhaps it was a bad choice of words to call them one, this doesn't stop you from being discriminatory. Don't try and dodge it. (I mean this in general, I never saw your posts)
Not all Muslim women wear face-covering veils, I still stand by my view that the French government are entitled to ban people from hiding their face in public.
Whether or not it's 'state-promoted discrimination' isn't for me to say.
If supporting this law because I think its uncomfortable not to be able to see someones face, then I have no problem with being called discriminatory.
[QUOTE=angelangel;32425257]Not all Muslim women wear face-covering veils, I still stand by my view that the French government are entitled to ban people from hiding their face in public.
Whether or not it's 'state-promoted discrimination' isn't for me to say.[/QUOTE]
I can understand the safety of it, but banning a religious clothing and a form of expression is discriminatory and removing freedoms in my opinion.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Stormcharger;32425263]If supporting this law because I think its uncomfortable not to be able to see someones face, then I have no problem with being called discriminatory.[/QUOTE]
This is an utterly immature and dense reason. I also don't understand why not seeing their face is such a big deal, I wonder if any of you realize nigabs (sp) allow at least the upper face and eyes. I dunno about you but I've only ever considered eye contact to be very important.
I'm really surprised that so much of FP actually buys the horrendously bad excuse they make to keep this blatantly xenophobic law around.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;32425311]I'm really surprised that so much of FP actually buys the horrendously bad excuse they make to keep this blatantly xenophobic law around.[/QUOTE]
Its funny how a "Liberal" and Open-Minded Community can turn out, eh?
[QUOTE=doommarine23;32425317]Its funny how a "Liberal" and Open-Minded Community can turn out, eh?[/QUOTE]
Its mostly the people who have an over blown hatred for religion.
Love how they want christian countries to adapt to their beliefs,
If I went to saudi arabia wearing a cross round my neck I'd be mugged on the street, spat on then handed to police
I don't see why it's such a big fucking deal that people don't like when someone hides their face.
It's unsettling, makes people unrecognizable, and it attracts unnecessary attention.
[QUOTE=skeligandrew;32425646]Love how they want christian countries to adapt to their beliefs,
If I went to saudi arabia wearing a cross round my neck I'd be mugged on the street, spat on then handed to police[/QUOTE]
It's called freedom and being multicultural while respecting the beliefs of others.
[QUOTE=skeligandrew;32425646]Love how they want christian countries to adapt to their beliefs,
If I went to saudi arabia wearing a cross round my neck I'd be mugged on the street, spat on then handed to police[/QUOTE]
Yeah because every Muslim obviously supports that stuff.
[QUOTE=skeligandrew;32425646]Love how they want christian countries to adapt to their beliefs,
If I went to saudi arabia wearing a cross round my neck I'd be mugged on the street, spat on then handed to police[/QUOTE]
Clearly they wouldn't...
Alright then another example,
theres those crowds of muslims that are obsessed with burning something of importance, like on armistice day they burnt a big poppy while shouting "british soldiers burn in hell"
And you know what? the police defended them.
You think police in muslim countries would defend somebody from another religion shouting "all muslims are terrorists" ?
point is, Just know they are a guest in another country.
[QUOTE=skeligandrew;32425759]Alright then another example,
theres those crowds of muslims that are obsessed with burning something of importance, like on armistice day they burnt a big poppy while shouting "british soldiers burn in hell"
And you know what? the police defended them.
You think police in muslim countries would defend somebody from another religion shouting "all muslims are terrorists" ?
point is, I welcome muslims, Just know they are a guest in another country.[/QUOTE]
It's called freedom of speech.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32425778]It's called freedom of speech.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, police here let them say what they want.
[quote]You think police in muslim countries would defend somebody from another religion shouting "all muslims are terrorists"[/quote] I'd like to know your answer to that, I am not arguing, just conversation.
[QUOTE=skeligandrew;32425804]Yeah, police here let them say what they want.
I'd like to know your answer to that, I am not arguing, just conversation.[/QUOTE]
Freedom of speech isn't based on "oh well if your countries wouldn't let us have freedom of speech then you can't"
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