[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;32422717]The law is the law. If I were to disagree with the law that forbids me to shoot people in the face, would it be a commendable act or a criminal offense?[/QUOTE]
there is this thing called civil disobedience you know
inb4 the pastafarians institute a male head/face covering to parody this law
I doubt most people here realize it's a law that covers all kinds of face-covering things. It's not just about Muslim women covering their face, not even about the Niqab (at the time this law was voted it was called the "burqa ban law".
I just think it's somewhat fashionable to accuse people of being anti-Muslim because it makes one sound tolerant or something.
Fucking France. Why can't you guys just learn to accept people?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;32429587]Fucking France. Why can't you guys just learn to accept people?[/QUOTE]
[quote]
Motorcycle helmets
Face-masks for health reasons
Face-covering for sporting or professional activities
Sunglasses, hats etc which do not completely hide the face
Masks used in "traditional activities", such as carnivals or religious processions
[/quote]
Here's the list of banned objects.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32429612]Here's the list of banned objects.[/QUOTE]
So what? What is that supposed to say to me?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32429612]Here's the list of banned objects.[/QUOTE]
That seems more like the list of legal objects, those all have legitimate uses.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32429704]That seems more like the list of legal objects, those all have legitimate uses.[/QUOTE]
It's the actual list of banned objects.
[QUOTE=BrQ;32423496]That makes no fucking sense, that's like saying we should ban sweaters and caps because sometimes people enter a store and pretend to be a normal guy with a sweater and cap and then rob an employee.[/QUOTE]
Excuse me but how does a Sweater or a cap actually cover the entire face? It does obscure the face slightly, and is removeable since no one can fall back upon religion to say they aren't taking it off.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;32429650]So what? What is that supposed to say to me?[/QUOTE]
Why telling them to "learn to accept people" while there's no specific "people" (define what you mean by that) to accept in the first place ?
There is no xenophobia, racism, or any sort of discrimination against any religion in that law. It's just a law prohibiting any sort of clothes or such that hide your face totally, making you unrecognizable, because a lot of people are using these to rob stores and such.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32429612]Here's the list of banned objects.[/QUOTE]
Hats and sunglasses?
Seriously?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32429721]It's the actual list of banned objects.[/QUOTE]
Why would any of those things be banned? I cannot think of a legitimate reason for any of them.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=-Mud-;32429768]Hats and sunglasses?
Seriously?[/QUOTE]
Health masks? Motorcycle helmets? It makes no sense.
[QUOTE=-Mud-;32429768]Hats and sunglasses?
Seriously?[/QUOTE]
You can still wear a cap and aviator sunglasses if that's what's shocking you.
Balaclavas are in the hat category of the law.
As an Italian (not even a far away culture) who's trying to get by in France..I can tell you guys they're pretty harsh about multicultiralism. :(
I get mocked at for everything. My accent. My own culture. I get thrown stereotypes at all day. The past of my country. (Yes, French people bring fascism to Italians as some kind of taunt.)
I don't want to make devil out of them because I met some incredible people over here but your average French person is extremly rude and lives in their own little world, and it's really saddening and hard to live along them.
France isn't about multicultarilism, they try to make you fond of who they are and what they do, they talk you into doing what they do everyday, they want to make everyone as French as they are, I'm not even kidding. Their opinions must be yours. It's really rude sometime. I wish I could be somewhere else sometime.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32429826]Why would any of those things be banned? I cannot think of a legitimate reason for any of them.
[/QUOTE]
They are hiding your face, you cannot be recognized, people can use them to commit crimes.
You can still wear a motorcycle helmet while on a motorcycle, you usually don't leave your home or the hospital if your wound is grave enough to have an integral health mask.
a Niqab is a veil designed to reduce women to item status because islamic law claims that they are too provocative unless they are completely covered. By banning them France is taking a stand against the twisted morals of islam. These women just have been living with Niqabs all their life and don't know what freedom is.
[QUOTE=Onirik;32429857]As an Italian (not even a far away culture) who's trying to get by in France..I can tell you guys they're pretty harsh about multicultiralism. :(
I get mocked at for everything. My accent. My own culture. I get thrown stereotypes at all day. The past of my country. (Yes, French people bring fascism to Italians as some kind of taunt.)
I don't want to make devil out of them because I met some incredible people over here but your average French person is extremly rude and lives in their own little world, and it's really saddening and hard to live along them.
France isn't about multicultarilism, they try to make you fond of who they are and what they do, they talk you into doing what they do everyday, they want to make everyone as French as they are, I'm not even kidding. Their opinions must be yours. It's really rude sometime. I wish I could be somewhere else sometime.[/QUOTE]
THE LAW IS NOT ABOUT MULTICULTURALISM IT'S ABOUT ANY OBJECTS HIDING YOUR FACE
I'm tired of repeating that. Hijab and Burqa aren't even quoted in the law, there isn't even a "any objects hiding your face in the purpose of Islam" line.
[QUOTE=Maxx;32424080]Yep. We're already doing them a huge favor by letting them live here. And yes, that veil is a big deal, among other things, like causing traffic jams when they need to pray to their imaginary friend.
Funny how everyone in this thread who is against this law is from countries that don't have that many Muslims.[/QUOTE]
America has plenty of Muslims.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32429901]THE LAW IS NOT ABOUT MULTICULTURALISM IT'S ABOUT ANY OBJECTS HIDING YOUR FACE
I'm tired of repeating that. Hijab and Burqa aren't even quoted in the law, there isn't even a "any objects hiding your face in the purpose of Islam" line.[/QUOTE]
Why have they passed such a law when the immigrations problems are causing real trouble?
It's just an excuse. Now don't yell at me, am I allowed to have my own goddamn opinion? I've been living in this country for 10 years and I can see what's going on since the immigration waves. France has never accepted multiculturalism, the best way to prove that is that they got "integration programs" to form immigrants to be like them. And while it's not ALWAYS a bad thing, it is one when you forbid someone from having their own beliefs.
When France goes on about religion, they just remind me of crusades and history books.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32429901]THE LAW IS NOT ABOUT MULTICULTURALISM IT'S ABOUT ANY OBJECTS HIDING YOUR FACE
I'm tired of repeating that. Hijab and Burqa aren't even quoted in the law, there isn't even a "any objects hiding your face in the purpose of Islam" line.[/QUOTE]
And so you legislate in the name of safety against facemasks for health reasons? That is just shit.
what the fuck is the point of this?
it doesn't stop crime, it just annoys people.
[QUOTE=Onirik;32429945]Why have they passed such a law when the immigrations problems are causing real trouble?
It's just an excuse. Now don't yell at me, am I allowed to have my own goddamn opinion? I've been living in this country for 10 years and I can see what's going on since the immigration waves. France has never accepted multiculturalism, the best way to prove that is that they got "integration programs" to form immigrants to be like them. And while it's not ALWAYS a bad thing, it is one when you forbid someone from having their own beliefs.
When France goes on about religion, they just remind me of crusades and history books.[/QUOTE]
Don't say it's "your opinion" if you're telling it like an obvious fact. "It's just an excuse" is a general truth fact, which isn't the case here.
The law has been called a xenophobic issue since the very beginning, while it originates from shopkeepers complaining about people entering their shops with balaclavas on and robbing shit and people organizing peaceful meetings that ended up in riots because people with motorcycles and hoods + aviator glasses + piece of cloth on their mouth triggered them, then looted stores.
If anything it's only outsiders and the medias that are making shit up on the law because it's not selling enough to say "French assembly votes a law to ban face-covering clothes in order to secure stores and streets".
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32429901]THE LAW IS NOT ABOUT MULTICULTURALISM IT'S ABOUT ANY OBJECTS HIDING YOUR FACE
[/QUOTE]
oh my god you already blurted this out in the last thread and you were proven wrong at every single turn.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32429952]And so you legislate in the name of safety against facemasks for health reasons? That is just shit.[/QUOTE]
Here's a face mask :
[img]http://www.cardinal.com/us/en/distributedproducts/images/M/MHC4236.jpg[/img]
Seriously if you have to wear that, it means you're either in a hospital or in a cafeteria serving food.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32430028]
The law has been called a xenophobic issue since the very beginning, while it originates from shopkeepers complaining about people entering their shops with balaclavas on and robbing shit and people organizing peaceful meetings that ended up in riots because people with motorcycles and hoods + aviator glasses + piece of cloth on their mouth triggered them, then looted stores.
[/QUOTE]
prove that niqab's are used for these purposes or else stop talking about it
[QUOTE=thisispain;32430050]oh my god you already blurted this out in the last thread and you were proven wrong at every single turn.[/QUOTE]
People just make shit up and problems where there aren't any.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32430075]People just make shit up and problems where there aren't any.[/QUOTE]
it obviously is a problem when women with no criminal intent were stopped and fined for religious expression.
that means the law doesn't fucking work. if a law punishes people who are innocent it's shit.
[QUOTE=thisispain;32430063]prove that niqab's are used for these purposes or else stop talking about it[/QUOTE]
WHAT IS UP WITH THE GOD DAMN NIQAB
Why do you keep bringing that shitty ass argument ? There is no point, the law is not about it, the niqab or the burqa aren't even quoted in it, neither are the words Islam and Muslims.
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=thisispain;32430092]it obviously is a problem when women with no criminal intent were stopped and fined for religious expression.
that means the law doesn't fucking work. if a law punishes people who are innocent it's shit.[/QUOTE]
And if the law makes exception for religion it's called discrimination and it would violate the law separating religion and state.
Your point ?
[editline]22nd September 2011[/editline]
If they want to express their religion, they can wear this :
[img]http://www.ethnicdenim.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/khimar.jpg[/img]
Or this :
[img]http://www.ethnicdenim.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/amira.jpg[/img]
Or this :
[img]http://www.ethnicdenim.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/hijab.gif[/img]
But not this :
[img]http://www.ethnicdenim.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/05/niqab.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32430101]WHAT IS UP WITH THE GOD DAMN NIQAB
Why do you keep bringing that shitty ass argument ? There is no point, the law is not about it, the niqab or the burqa aren't even quoted in it, neither are the words Islam and Muslims.[/QUOTE]
then why is it included if it's not about the niqab and burqa? why are they wrong to wear?
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;32430101]
And if the law makes exception for religion it's called discrimination and it would violate the law separating religion and state.[/QUOTE]
what the fuck are you talking about, do you know what separation of church and state means? it means the state may no encourage a certain religion over another.
so the state bans one form of religious expression and not the other. that's encouraging one religious expression over another.
so it's discrimination unless the state bans all religious expression and at that point it's just authoritarianism.
If they make a law about now wearing face-covering objects but still allow Islam members to wear these, then it's encouraging this religion over the others.
And no, Christianity or Judaism don't include integral veils.
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