[AP] Trump's New Travel Ban: Removes Iraq from List, Ban Only Applies to New Visas - Polidicks

[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51921731]The way you say it makes me feel like you've never been affected by such a protest.[/quote] I've never been involved in a protest of my own choice or directly affected by one, true. But I know their affects and why they are important. If protests didn't affect people there would be little to no point in doing them as they wouldn't get people to enquire WHY they're protesting. [quote]I can't reasonably argue that innocent local business owners who now view protests with a sour taste shouldn't be against them, because they were looted and/or destroyed and lost everything they had.[/quote] I'm not defending rioting - that's not protesting. They are not in any way similiar. A peaceful protest (which constitute the vast majority of protests, both in the States and here) can cost businesses money indirect through people not coming in to the place of protest, but they would not destroy a business outright or damage their goods. [quote]The same for people who missed important meetings or time with family across the country because they couldn't get on their flight, or people who were fired from their job or missed out on pay for being late because people were in the middle of the road screaming at them and holding them up.[/QUOTE] I can feel sorry for both groups (though I question how many workers have been fired due to events outside their control like that - but from what I remember American labour laws are not very protective of workers, compared to our laws) but again, protesting is important. Those people's needs might also be advanced by those protests.

[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51921731]The way you say it makes me feel like you've never been affected by such a protest. I can't reasonably argue that innocent local business owners who now view protests with a sour taste shouldn't be against them, because they were looted and/or destroyed and lost everything they had.[/QUOTE] And the way you talk about protests make me believe you've never really been properly fucked by government actions. Instead of shunning those being downtrodden by those in power, find your spine and criticise the root of the problem. People being blocked and inconvenienced (I'm ignoring looting as it's hardly peaceful protest) is unfortunate and it sucks sure, but feel free to float an alternative.

What's the chance this gets shut down

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51921442]OK now it's making less and less sense. What dangers does Yemen, Somalia, Yemen or Libya have towards the United States? Will there still not be issues over this considering the weird selection of countries and the obvious targetting of Muslim-majority countries or is this considered legal?[/QUOTE] 4 out of 6 of the countries have been bombed by US last year. Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't bomb them and then invite them.

Wait...Didn't Trump say the ban had to be immediate so that no bad dudes have a chance of getting in? This has a 10 day grace period. 45 is letting the baddest dudes in! Sad!!!

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51921598]Good luck, a Fox news Poll has basically revealed that 53% Percent of America want you to move on from protesting, [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/02/fox-news-poll-majority-says-move-on-from-protesting-trump.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/02/fox-news-poll-majority-says-move-on-from-protesting-trump.html[/URL][/QUOTE] Good luck, election counts basically revealed that a majority of voters of America want you Hillary to be President.

[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;51921495]This is much more sane than the original bill[/QUOTE] But still insane and ineffective

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51921598]Good luck, a Fox news Poll has basically revealed that 53% Percent of America want you to move on from protesting, [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/02/fox-news-poll-majority-says-move-on-from-protesting-trump.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/02/fox-news-poll-majority-says-move-on-from-protesting-trump.html[/URL][/QUOTE] I thought we didn't trust polls anymore? Or do you only like them when they suit your argument? I'm confused.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;51921738]I don't care about whether or not people protest, just don't be a violent idiot and please, talk to your Congressmen too, your input into the politic world should not begin and end at protesting. The reason they are elected is to represent their constituency, so you have to make your voice heard; ideally across several avenues.[/QUOTE] Talking to congressmen is not an option when most of them hide from their constituents. Protesting is the only thing that has a chance to get a message across, but it is also ignored since it is opposition to the agenda that these same congressmen are trying to push. It's not hard to see why a lot of people are using protests to cause mayhem. There is very little faith in the system anymore, so why not lash out and hurt the one thing that these people care about - money and business

[QUOTE=piddlezmcfuz;51922250]Talking to congressmen is not an option when most of them hide from their constituents. Protesting is the only thing that has a chance to get a message across, but it is also ignored since it is opposition to the agenda that these same congressmen are trying to push. It's not hard to see why a lot of people are using protests to cause mayhem. There is very little faith in the system anymore, so why not lash out and hurt the one thing that these people care about - money and business[/QUOTE] This is sort of the impression I've been getting. Lots of congressmen, Republicans especially, are flat out avoiding their constituents. That's not how a democracy works. If things get so bad that a riot is the only way for people to get their government to take notice, it's time to riot.

so yeah I guess this happened [media]https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/838790824204906497[/media]

[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;51921495]This is much more sane than the original bill[/QUOTE] considering none of those countries have ever committed terror attacks against the U.S. then no, it's still pretty insane and is just done for the purpose of 'muslims'.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51922447]so yeah I guess this happened [/QUOTE] This is like Dark Souls 3 patch notes. >Adjusted executive order. >Adjusted nation's safety.

[QUOTE=The Rifleman;51921765]What's the chance this gets shut down[/QUOTE] pretty good considering he still has put forth no evidence to justify this. when obama did his travel ban (which trumpettes sniped about) he provided the courts with justification, a solid timetable, and did so in a non-discriminatory way. yes trump struck out the christian preference but he still has yet to give any evidence as to why these countries and why refugees are banned

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51921634]Each Time Your protest turns into a riot, it damages people's view of the people protesting.[/QUOTE] Hopefully [I]you're[/I] a bit more sensible than that, right? Because it would be incredibly foolish to use the few opportunists among a much, much bigger group to inform your opinion about [I]everybody[/I] within that group. If you subscribe to that belief personally, then you're setting an impossible standard that is doomed to fail and confirm your biases. I can control my own behavior at a protest, but I can't control what the dude next to me does, and I can't stop some asshole from using the chaos as an excuse to act thuggish. If or when that happens, it sure as hell ain't my fault, and it doesn't make my argument illegitimate.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51922742]Hopefully [I]you're[/I] a bit more sensible than that, right? Because it would be incredibly foolish to use the few opportunists among a much, much bigger group to inform your opinion about [I]everybody[/I] within that group.[/QUOTE] I don't think that's exactly what he's saying, and it sort of goes in line with what I was saying too. It makes people dread the possibility of the next protest becoming troublesome. That definitely doesn't go to say that the vast majority of protests are bad or unproductive.

[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51922753]I don't think that's exactly what he's saying, and it sort of goes in line with what I was saying too. It makes people dread the possibility of the next protest becoming troublesome. That definitely doesn't go to say that the vast majority of protests are bad or unproductive.[/QUOTE] I can understand some anxiety surrounding protests, because in any sufficiently large enough group there is some chance for stupidity to break out. As long as you're not using the few people perpetrating that stupidity to argue that the protest (and protestors) as a whole are illegitimate, all's well. Protest is critical to democracy and the American condition. Without it, we would still be living in an era of explicit statutory racism.

Bernie Sanders has responded [Quote] Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) released the following statement Monday after President Donald Trump signed a new executive order blocking immigration from six majority-Muslim countries and suspending admittance of all refugees: "Let’s call it what it is. This ban is a racist and anti-Islamic attempt to divide us up. A president who respected our traditions of religious freedom would not have resorted to hateful, anti-Islamic rhetoric to justify a ban on travel from six mostly Muslim countries. Even the Department of Homeland Security has said that citizenship is not a factor in terrorist threats. This isn’t about keeping America safe. A president responsible for keeping our citizens safe would not hand over ideological ammunition to terrorists seeking new recruits to kill Americans." [/Quote]

[QUOTE=KingofBeast;51922753]I don't think that's exactly what he's saying, and it sort of goes in line with what I was saying too. It makes people dread the possibility of the next protest becoming troublesome. That definitely doesn't go to say that the vast majority of protests are bad or unproductive.[/QUOTE] Well what are you asking for then? People to just stop protesting?

I strongly believe this is SecDef Mattis' doing, I know he was butting heads with Trump (and possibly Bannon) over the travel ban, specifically because it fucked over people who we made a promise to. The deal is simple: You work for us for a couple years, and if you survive, you can grab what's left of your family and come to America. Trump's ban blocked these people, and that did not sit well with Mattis who knows breaking a promise like that will severely hurt military operations on the ground. Nobody will work with the US Military if they know they'll get fucked over. Mattis made it his mission to ensure that regardless of any travel bans, the only thing that mattered was that these people that risked everything to help us will be allowed into the US. In my opinion, those people are bigger patriots than most Americans, they gave everything to help a country they've never even been to, and their sacrifices must be rewarded.

[QUOTE=Sam Za Nemesis;51921495]This is much more sane than the original bill[/QUOTE] The original bill didn't set the bar very high, to be fair.

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51921598]Good luck, a Fox news Poll has basically revealed that 53% Percent of America want you to move on from protesting, [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/02/fox-news-poll-majority-says-move-on-from-protesting-trump.html"]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/02/fox-news-poll-majority-says-move-on-from-protesting-trump.html[/URL][/QUOTE] 53% of America didn't even fucking vote.

[QUOTE=cheetahben;51921679]*53% of America that took a FOX NEWS poll is dumb. I highly doubt that the sample pool is unbiased[/QUOTE] In 4/8 years when a democrat is elected they should conduct the same poll

[QUOTE=cheetahben;51921679]*53% of America that took a FOX NEWS poll is dumb. I highly doubt that the sample pool is unbiased[/QUOTE] I was surprised too, but the polls conducted by Fox News (or rather its polling partner) are actually [URL="https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-state-of-the-polls-2016/"]regarded[/URL] the third most accurate among major firms. [t]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/silver-pollsterratings16-4.png?quality=90&strip=all&w=575&ssl=1[/t]

Alright, I'm willing to step up and be set on fire here for asking. How do you guys suggest we filter out people who could be coming into this country, that is isis or other terrorist group related, without having any sort of racial/religious profiling? Don't get me wrong, I am in no way saying this is right nor am i saying it is wrong. I'm simply curious as to how it's supposed to be done.

[QUOTE=Kecske;51926826]I was surprised too, but the polls conducted by Fox News (or rather its polling partner) are actually [URL="https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-state-of-the-polls-2016/"]regarded[/URL] the third most accurate among major firms. [/QUOTE] Not surprising at all to me when you put outfits like SurveyUSA and American Research Group in the running. Mainstream sources have a bigger incentive to run accurate polling than anyone else as well.

Property damage in protests is imo no big deal, it shows the underlying need

Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Tunisia, and Pakistan isn't on there, all of which are hotbeds for Hezbollah, ISIS, and the Taliban, where money is frequently funneled into said groups by those in power; this will not change anything. [QUOTE=SIRIUS;51927197]Property damage in protests is imo no big deal, it shows the underlying need [/quote] [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot"]The Vancouver riots would like to have a word with you. [/url]

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;51927197]Property damage in protests is imo no big deal, it shows the underlying need[/QUOTE] Property damage only shows hooliganism and violent opportunists getting their way. A good protest minimizes property damage while maximizing protest effectiveness. Destroying other's stuff is a great freakin' way to lose legitimacy. The only people that are hurt by property damage are small business owners who can't really bear the cost of losing a storefront. Big corporations and franchises have such a huge bottom line that it's hardly a scratch.

The property damage itself doesn't directly accomplish a goal in its own. It's a way of expressing violent outrage. All successful protests whether it was the civil rights protests/riots, or the women's rights riots, all had explicit violence. This was important, and it gave weight to those who offered non violence as an alternative [editline]7th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Yadda;51927241]Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Tunisia, and Pakistan isn't on there, all of which are hotbeds for Hezbollah, ISIS, and the Taliban, where money is frequently funneled into said groups by those in power; this will not change anything. [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot"]The Vancouver riots would like to have a word with you. [/url][/QUOTE] Obviously the cause and context are important