[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52650319]I'm fine with the idea of the president ending something through presidential means that was instigated by the previous prez through presidential means.
However, if he wants to argue that there was no presidential authority to instigate DACA in the first place, then why were there zero legal challenges the entire time it was in place, going on years now?[/QUOTE]
Except there were. Some redneck states where planing to take DACA to court. The deadline for them to start the processes was today, that's why Trump needed to make a statement.
[URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/09/05/this-is-the-trump-administrations-most-stunningly-cynical-excuse-for-ending-daca/"]Sarah Huckabee Sanders held a press conference today and defended the decision to end DACA this way:[/URL]
[QUOTE]It’s not cold-hearted for the president to uphold the law. We are a nation of law and order. And the day that we start to ignore that we are that, then we throw away everything that gives these people a reason to want to come to our country. If we stop becoming the country that we were envisioned to be, then we throw away what makes us special, what makes America unique.
This president’s not willing to do that. The previous administration was. This one isn’t.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, what? The President is concerned about upholding the law regarding the children of illegal immigrants when the punk motherfucker pardoned a racist shitstain who [I]ignored a federal judge's orders to stop unconstitutionally detaining Latino-looking people[/I]?? And this shitstain's pursuit of making Latinos produce their papers caused hundreds of sexual assault reports, many with victims under the age of 15, to go unaddressed?
I needed to laugh myself until I shit my pants, thanks, America.
[QUOTE=dark soul;52651221]Except there were. Some redneck states where planing to take DACA to court. The deadline for them to start the processes was today, that's why Trump needed to make a statement.[/QUOTE]
He could've let the court case begin. It would've taken ages to actually finish. Instead, he ran from the threat of bad PR for being sued over DACA (implemented by Obama and something he vowed to overturn) like it was made of sentient AIDS needles. They hadn't even sued yet and he threw 800,000 promising young people off a cliff of uncertainty because he was too cowardly to even face the case.
[QUOTE=milktree;52651017]and by allowing no questions to be asked. when was the last time the guy even had a press conference anyway?[/QUOTE]
Trump probably wouldn't survive a Westminster-style question time; an hour-long session where they get grilled by the opposition, where they don't know what exact questions will be asked until they are actually asked, where they can't even spend a minute preparing to answer each question. And it's all broadcast for free.
Maybe that's what the United States needs. The President to appear before a joint session of Congress once per fortnight for an hour, and answering questions presented to them from both Democratic and Republican lawmakers.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;52650584]They're letting current DACA stay and renew. No ones getting deported[/QUOTE]
Wait so are they completely terminating the program, or are they just closing the registry so no new arrivals are allowed to apply for it?
[QUOTE=BF;52651268]Trump probably wouldn't survive a Westminster-style question time; an hour-long session where they get grilled by the opposition, where they don't know what exact questions will be asked until they are actually asked, where they can't even spend a minute preparing to answer each question. And it's all broadcast for free.
Maybe that's what the United States needs. The President to appear before a joint session of Congress once per fortnight for an hour, and answering questions presented to them from both Democratic and Republican lawmakers.[/QUOTE]
Motherfucker needs to be forced to hold a press conference more than once a term, to start with. He hasn't held one since AFAIK February. He's just been calling the press fake news because they won't softball everything for him and make his job cushy and trivial. What a pussy. He got this job and now he doesn't want it, but he refuses to quit.
Question Time would destroy him. He'd walk out after 10 minutes.
[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;52651273]Wait are they completely terminating the program, or are they just closing the registry so no new arrivals are allowed to apply for it?[/QUOTE]
Both. New applications are said to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis from today going forward, but assume applications are closed. Renewals may be processed for the next six months, and apparently they're going to be allowing people who [I]don't[/I] expire within the next six months to still renew before October 6th.
After the six-month period, DACA will end, firmly -- all applications and renewals will be handled on a case-by-case basis (so assume rejection). All existing DACA enrolees remain protected until the day their term ends, which will be at most March 5, 2019, unless Congress establishes some temporary or permanent solution before the March 2017 deadline.
[URL="https://www.facebook.com/barackobama/posts/10155227588436749"]Barack Obama weighs in [/URL]
I won't quote the whole thing but
[QUOTE]Let’s be clear: the action taken today isn’t required legally. It’s a political decision, and a moral question. Whatever concerns or complaints Americans may have about immigration in general, we shouldn’t threaten the future of this group of young people who are here through no fault of their own, who pose no threat, who are not taking away anything from the rest of us. They are that pitcher on our kid’s softball team, that first responder who helps out his community after a disaster, that cadet in ROTC who wants nothing more than to wear the uniform of the country that gave him a chance. Kicking them out won’t lower the unemployment rate, or lighten anyone’s taxes, or raise anybody’s wages.[/QUOTE]
pretty much hits the nail on the head. this move isn't done to "Make America Great Again!", it won't improve anybodies life, it's a purely political move meant to keep republican supporters happy (with a side helping of bold-faced xenophobia).
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52651248]It’s not cold-hearted for the president to uphold the law. We are a nation of law and order. And the day that we start to ignore that we are that, then we throw away everything that gives these people a reason to want to come to our country.[/QUOTE]
Not even two weeks ago, Trump pardoned someone for blatantly ignoring a fucking federal judge and called him a great human being. But [I]now[/I] upholding the law becomes important? [I]Now[/I] you're concerned about giving immigrants a reason to come to the country?
You absolute [I][B]cunt[/B][/I] of a human being. This administration really, really cannot fall fast enough.
[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52651343]Not even two weeks ago, Trump pardoned someone for blatantly ignoring a fucking federal judge and called him a great human being. But [I]now[/I] upholding the law becomes important? [I]Now[/I] you're concerned about giving immigrants a reason to come to the country?
You absolute [I][B]cunt[/B][/I] of a human being. This administration really, really cannot fall fast enough.[/QUOTE]
Never underestimate the power of Republicans to pour on the hypocrisy and smooth it down with cognitive dissonance. When the federal government does something conservatives like, it's Trump gettin' things DONE and DRAINING the SWAMP -- but when [i]the exact same federal government[/i] does something they don't like, it's OBAMA'S SHADOW GOVERNMENT. They say gay marriage should be struck down federally because "the states should have the right to legalize it or not" -- but we [i]absolutely have to keep the federal ban on marijuana[/i], even as more and more states vote to legalize it.
The same way GETTIN' TOUGH ON CRIME means putting poor people in jail (never mind that mandatory minimums do nothing for recidivism rates -- gotta make that private prison $$$), while a rich man's tax evasion is "smart."
They're a bunch of idiot children. As long as they like something, they really don't care if it's unconstitutional, illegal, unethical or immoral.
My girlfriend is a DREAMer and it's upsetting to see our worries become a reality. This won't do anything but throw almost a million immigrant's futures in jeopardy.
I think it'd be fucking rich if Canada offered citizenship to all DREAMers. :v:
That'd cause a lot of controversy on both sides of the border, though. Plus, they'd need to be able to find jobs.
The Trump administration will be defined by its petty insistence on undoing every Obama did for no good reason, while being too inept to pass any new legislation of its own outside of executive order.
Then presumably it will fall to the next president to clean up all this shit.
So basically he's ending one of the most American things ever, kicking out people who came to America and are allowed to stay under such harsh controls that basically everyone who has DACA is a textbook example immigrant.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52651513]The Trump administration will be defined by its petty insistence on undoing every Obama did for no good reason, while being too inept to pass any new legislation of its own outside of executive order.
Then presumably it will fall to the next president to clean up all this shit.[/QUOTE]
I hope history won't repeat in people voting for another republican after a democrat had to work on cleaning their diarrhea.
[QUOTE=AnnieOakley;52651580]I hope history won't repeat in people voting for another republican after a democrat had to work on cleaning their diarrhea.[/QUOTE]
they'll forget every shitty thing trump did within a week of his predecessor's inauguration
[quote=Kris Kobach Interview]HUNTSMAN: You point out the important part, the legal side of this. But there’s also the emotional side. What do you do about the people that are already here? The 800,000 DREAMers? What do you do about separating families? Not everyone here is a criminal, a lot of them are just innocents, they’ve been living here most of their — all of their life, really. They’ve gone to school here. How do you balance the emotional side of this?
KOBACH: Well, let’s remember, one of the things that the open borders side always says is, ‘Oh, they’re just children.’ No, the average age — the median age is 25 of a DACA illegal alien, and they can be 36 years old and still be getting the amnesty, and they claim to have come in before the age of 16. So, first of all, they’re not children.
Secondly, if we’re worried about keeping families together, then the illegal alien parents who brought them here should also be removed to the home country along with the DACA recipient alien. There’s nothing wrong with asking people to go home, and if they’ve been able to violate our laws for 10 years or more, well, congratulations, you got a huge benefit from the American taxpayer. You got best education in the Western Hemisphere, but now it’s time to go home, and if you want, get in line and try to come in legally with those hundreds of thousands of your fellow countrymen who are waiting to do it the the right way.[/quote]
Seems that Kobach is quite keen on the DACA recipients who've been here their whole lives going "Back to their own country!" :thinking:
And also, aren't DACA recipients not eligible for any government aid programs whatsoever? I believe they still pay taxes all the same, as part of the agreement... So what benefit from the "American taxpayer" would they have gotten? Or is Kobach just lying through his teeth here? Because that seems like the case to me...
Oh, and this is the guy in charge of the supposed 'voter fraud investigation' backed by the administration apparently. Seems like a person that I'd trust to decide which votes are "valid" or not! Totally trustworthy and unbiased, yup. Noooo way is there a chance of him scouring out legal votes... Noooone at all.
Well Sarah Sanders just joinned my list of people with worthless opinions that I shouldnt listen to.
A country of law and order? What kind of bullshit defense is that? You can apply that to slavery and genocide if the law says its okay and guess what? That's exactly what they done to the past to justified it in the past.
Let me tell you folks something. This past year alone people, hardworking good law abidding people that never harm anybody or anything, that I personally know were effected by deportation. Familes torn apart and for what? People couldnt afford or have the opportunity to become legal citizens? Because they were born behind imaginary lines on maps? Imagine being born into the same lives as these people who just want to lives their lives and take care of their family. They had pretty much no choice unless they want to die in extreme proverty in countries runned by corrupt sociopaths and brutal drug cartels. Countries that most likely wouldnt be as bad if it wasnt for our pointless and pathetic war on drugs. Imagine going through so much hardship and then have it all taken away because some dogshit excuse of a human politician want to use you as scrapegoats to win votes from braindead sheep.
You can tell me whatever bullshit excuse about law and order you want. If you support this you are garbage. I dont care how much of an asshole I sound like.
This isn't about law or order. This is just racism against latinos and immigrants in general. This is a completely pointless effort to ruin their lives for no real reason. I don't care what worthless legal bill says, this is [B]wrong[/B]. Laws are meant to benefit society and humanity not make it worse.
Think back when you was a young kid, learning about past astrocities like the holocaust and slavery. Remember about when you thought "wow how can people do this? How can people [B]let[/B] people do this".
This is one of those times.
[QUOTE=Sky King;52652032]Well Sarah Sanders just joinned my list of people with worthless opinions that I shouldnt listen to.[/QUOTE]
I feel like you shouldn't trust anyone that works at the white house publicly right now unless they prove exception to the rule.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52652388]I feel like you shouldn't trust anyone that works at the white house publicly right now unless they prove exception to the rule.[/QUOTE]
so pretty much only mattis
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52652628]so pretty much only mattis[/QUOTE]
and kelly and mcmaster
[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;52651321][URL="https://www.facebook.com/barackobama/posts/10155227588436749"]Barack Obama weighs in [/URL]
I won't quote the whole thing but
pretty much hits the nail on the head. this move isn't done to "Make America Great Again!", it won't improve anybodies life, it's a purely political move meant to keep republican supporters happy (with a side helping of bold-faced xenophobia).[/QUOTE]
I don't know if it's just a pr team or Obama himself behind these posts but he always knows exactly what to say as a response to anything Trump does in such a heartwarming and collected manner.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;52652646]and kelly and mcmaster[/QUOTE]
I don't know about McMaster, Kelly seems fine so far.
[QUOTE=Fapplejack;52652866]I don't know if it's just a pr team or Obama himself behind these posts but he always knows exactly what to say as a response to anything Trump does in such a heartwarming and collected manner.[/QUOTE]
No matter whether you were in favor of or against Obama, you cannot deny the guy was a fantastic orator and had superb people writing his speeches.
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/905228667336499200[/media]
So look who's feeling the heat for being the one who decided to doom DACA and make it Congress' problem.
The Great Dealmaker will reconsider extending an unconstitutional overreach of executive power that was going to get his administration sued by states if Congress can't solve it in six months... just like his predecessor did when Congress was a deadlocked clusterfuck intent on preventing any legislative achievements.
So now dreamers don't even know if they're going to be able to stay or not. Their entire futures are in jeopardy based on the feeble ability of Congress to actually get anything done between now and March (never mind that this anti-immigrant Republican-dominated Congress is expected to give illegal immigrants protection which is lmao) and [I]then[/I] maybe the President's [del]generosity[/del]fear of bad PR will save them after Congress doesn't do anything. Fucking amazing.
I didn't know this and it's pretty interesting. Not all Senate Democrats supported the DREAM Act in 2010 and it would have passed if they did, but now 7 years later the party is united
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/09/06/daily-202-daca-reaction-shows-how-immigration-has-become-a-litmus-test-for-democrats/59af142730fb04264c2a1ced/[/url]
[media]https://twitter.com/markberman/status/905085310949785600[/media]
:godzing:
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52653787]I didn't know this and it's pretty interesting. Not all Senate Democrats supported the DREAM Act in 2010 and it would have passed if they did, but now 7 years later the party is united
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/09/06/daily-202-daca-reaction-shows-how-immigration-has-become-a-litmus-test-for-democrats/59af142730fb04264c2a1ced/[/url][/QUOTE]
As Republicans have shifted to the right, the Democratic Party has shifted left on social issues.
If the DREAM Act had been supported by just a handful more democrats, DACA never even would have happened and this huge fucking national drama with President Babyhands at the helm wouldn't be possible.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52653842][media]https://twitter.com/markberman/status/905085310949785600[/media][/QUOTE]
I don't understand what Trump's position on the Dreamers is. During the campaign he made out like all of them need to be deported ASAP, now he's scrapped DACA but justified it on constitutional grounds and seemingly challenged Congress to pass a pathway to citizenship???
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52653856]I don't understand what Trump's position on the Dreamers is. During the campaign he made out like all of them need to be deported ASAP, now he's scrapped DACA but justified it on constitutional grounds and seemingly challenged Congress to pass a pathway to citizenship???[/QUOTE]
On the campaign trail, he said shit to appeal to his base without caring about actually having to follow through. There were even polls before and continuing long after inauguration that showed that many of his cult-of-personality supporters never even expected him to deliver on all of his promises but don't care because he's still "the best" candidate.
Now that Trump is President, and Republicans control Congress, it's time to start cashing those checks that he/they wrote with those big boastful words, and now the consequences are real. And those consequences include alienating a majority of Americans and ruining the lives of 800,000 people. Just like how Republicans were quite happy to vote to repeal Obamacare dozens of times, knowing Obama would veto it and they'd never have to face the consequences of their actions, and once they actually got a majority and had all the tools to do it, the outcry from Republican states that supported the Medicaid/ACA expansion ran up against the Freedom Caucus that wanted to fuck everyone over as hard as possible and Republicans failed to find 51 votes in a filibuster-proof bill. When the consequences suddenly impact Republican voters' lives, Republicans suddenly get cold feet over their legislative war plans.
It turns out an overwhelming majority of Americans, including over 50% of Republicans, and even a non-trivial percentage of Trump voters, support allowing the dreamers to stay -- [B]but Donald said he'd do it[/B] and if he lets his voting base down, the only group he cares about, it'll hurt him, so he's fucked. His fat mouth has created a huge dilemma for him and he's spent over 200 days of his administration trying to figure out how to get out of the problem.
So he made it Congress' problem and says if they can't fuck it out in six months he's open to reconsidering his decision -- in other words, he's doing this to try and boost his shitty popularity (34%) but he's well aware that if dreamers actually get deported he's going to get skullfucked so hard by everyone [I]but[/I] his minority voter base that he can't let that happen.
Trump wants Schrodinger's DACA - it is simultaneously dead (so his voters are happy) and not dead (so the rest of America doesn't start trashing him even harder). Ending DACA, and ending it now when Congress has too many important things to solve to prevent major catastrophe, is a disaster of Donnie's own making, and he's trying to set Congress up to take the blame.
[QUOTE=Bob The Knob;52653787]I didn't know this and it's pretty interesting. Not all Senate Democrats supported the DREAM Act in 2010 and it would have passed if they did, but now 7 years later the party is united
[url]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2017/09/06/daily-202-daca-reaction-shows-how-immigration-has-become-a-litmus-test-for-democrats/59af142730fb04264c2a1ced/[/url][/QUOTE]
A big part of this is that many blue dog Democrats (more conservative members of Congress) got voted out at the end of 2010. The result is a more homogeneous but further left Democratic party.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52653913]Ending DACA, and ending it now when Congress has too many important things to solve to prevent major catastrophe, is a disaster of Donnie's own making, and he's trying to set Congress up to take the blame.[/QUOTE]
Watch the fool state that he'll veto any attempt to pass DACA that doesn't include provisions for budgeting the wall and the appointment of folks necessary for its construction. Because he's got to 'win'.
"Either I get my wall or I'll hold DACA over your heads, GOP"
[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52654528]Watch the fool state that he'll veto any attempt to pass DACA that doesn't include provisions for budgeting the wall and the appointment of folks necessary for its construction. Because he's got to 'win'.
"Either I get my wall or I'll hold DACA over your heads, GOP"[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna cry if this happens but I have the sinking feeling you're right.
Or he'll just go full on Moustache-Twirling Factory Owner and suggest Congress make DACA repurpose its workforce to contributing to THE WAAAAAALLLLLLLL.
Don't forget that rescinding DACA doesn't just make dreamers vulnerable to deportation: it revokes their work permits and takes away other basic privileges.
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