[QUOTE=V12US;29438966][URL]http://www.monstersandcritics.com/gaming/pc/news/article_1309466.php/Valve_won_t_charge_for_downloadable_content[/URL]
[quote]The crowbar-centric company announced it has no intention of charging for downloadables in games such as Counter-Strike and Team Fortress 2. Designer Robin Walker explains their logic saying: "You buy the product, you get the content ... We make more money because more people buy it, not because we try and nickel-and-dime the same customers."[/quote]
We all know the only reason they don't want to make singleplayer games anymore is because they can't add a store to those.
[/QUOTE]
You can wave it about as much as you want, but you're still twisting his intended meaning behind the wording. You've never had to pay for a map in either of those games and you're not forced to buy a weapon since most of them drop sooner or later. You're being selective whiners. You chose to forget what you get and what you COULD pay for. Shit son. You should be grateful that they even do bussiness like this. How would you like paying 15.00€ for the engineer update, now with 1 map, 2 weapons and 3 achievements?
I still think i'm getting the good end of the stick from valve when i buy there. I'll keep doing that. I WON'T EVER use their ingame store though. I've just not got an interest in that. Your free DLC comes in the shape of huge patches and the cosmetics cost a bit and that's bad? What's wrong with you?
TL;DR: GET REAL.
[QUOTE=Itszutak;29424715]Well, considering both half-life and half-life 2 have multiplayer components, this has probably been their plan all along for HL3[/QUOTE]
7 Hour War Multiplayer component
:allears:
[QUOTE=Swilly;29439085]So you think it doesn't deal with skill any more?[/QUOTE]
not to comapre tf2 to quake
but imagine if quake's weapons changed based on a personal load out
skill would still be largely important, but it would diminish that tight competition formed by a more limited and balanced gameplay paradigm.
[QUOTE=Lizard Of Guilt;29439057]Simplistic design, not art style.[/QUOTE]
not sure what you're trying to say here.
if you think that TF2's art style is a "cartoonish design" don't be silly, a lot more goes into art style than that. minimalism was a critical aspect of tf2's artstyle, as was simple color schemes and modelling. so the simplistic design is a pretty fundamental aspect of the art style.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;29438641]1) tf2 is no longer the same game it was if you attempt to even argue against this, you're wrong; each class originally had one or two playstyles at maximum and utilized different techniques, but on the whole the game played like a fighting game more than anything else. every server now has devolved into a chaotic mix of dozens of different combinations of playstyles. it's fine if that's what you're into but it's [I]not [/I]what tf2 started as. the hats removed the minimalistic art style completely (again if you argue against this you are wrong so don't even try) - if that matters to you then it's fine if you stopped playing the game because of that, and if it doesn't bother you all the power to you. but to argue it didn't change anything is fucking incomprehensibly stupid, so don't try.
2.) i sorely hope that valve doesn't turn all single player campaigns into things like L4D - based around co-op with a singleplayer option. i have confidence that they won't, but that is a certain doomsday scenario that is possible. i haven't played the portal 2 coop yet, but the presence of anyone human in a video game is an immediate immersion killer; and again, if you argue against this, you're wrong.[/QUOTE]
i just wanted to say somethign about this post
its a good post and all, but why compare it to a fighting game? in a fighting game (if you don't play it casually) you are most likely going to know what the characters are capabale, same with vanilla tf2
i'd compare it to, heck, call of duty nearly, with the customisable loadouts
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29439108]not to comapre tf2 to quake
but imagine if quake's weapons changed based on a personal load out
skill would still be largely important, but it would diminish that tight competition formed by a more limited and balanced gameplay paradigm.[/QUOTE]
Nothing my stock sentry and dispenser can't handle. Honestly, you can kick about everyone with stock gear, no problem. It's no where near out of balance. It's actually rather motivating to have a little edge to look forward to as you play, but i've never experienced another player handing my ass to me purely based on his gear.
[QUOTE=Swilly;29439085]So you think it doesn't deal with skill any more?[/QUOTE]
no I certainly think it deals with skill but there are numerous things that now are added on top of skill that are necessary. the game still involves skill but now instead of being versed very well with one loadout per class and [I]knowing [/I]how to deal with the constant classes and how to counter them and deal with them, you've got to deal with effectively 60 different "classes" in each character as the weapons have changed, which kills the whole idea of simplicity. this in addition to certain things like "jump in the air and you'll now die if you're hit by a rocket" (direct hit on any light class) just mottle it all up into a sort of chaotic mess. this is evident how you said that the game is based on insanity - unless of course i completely misread that post in every way
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;29439111]not sure what you're trying to say here.
if you think that TF2's art style is a "cartoonish design" don't be silly, a lot more goes into art style than that. minimalism was a critical aspect of tf2's artstyle, as was simple color schemes and modelling. so the simplistic design is a pretty fundamental aspect of the art style.[/QUOTE]
The design of the game is simplistic because everything you see has some sort of use, there is no fat, no excess. The art style itself is more complex. 9 characters with 9 distinct silhouettes along with dozens of maps which are pretty different despite the unifying them of desert and concrete.
[editline]26th April 2011[/editline]
Portal's art style is much more minimalistic than TF2.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;29439139]no I certainly think it deals with skill but there are numerous things that now are added on top of skill that are necessary. the game still involves skill but now instead of being versed very well with one loadout per class and [I]knowing [/I]how to deal with the constant classes and how to counter them and deal with them, you've got to deal with effectively 60 different "classes" in each character as the weapons have changed, which kills the whole idea of simplicity. this in addition to certain things like "jump in the air and you'll now die if you're hit by a rocket" (direct hit on any light class) just mottle it all up into a sort of chaotic mess. this is evident how you said that the game is based on insanity - unless of course i completely misread that post in every way[/QUOTE]
Both actually :v:
I meant insanity as the characters themselves are insane, the clothes they wear are crazy, their weapons overly-modified and pretty much everyone explodes into giblets if not torn apart by bullets. The clothing they now have only modify that initial insanity that I loved about the game. I've always viewed games as art so the first thing I see is the art style, the background stories, the characters and how the interact. Which led me to the conclusion that it was insanity within minimalism. So you were right and wrong.
[QUOTE=Lizard Of Guilt;29439170]The design of the game is simplistic because everything you see has some sort of use, there is no fat, no excess. The art style itself is more complex. 9 characters with 9 distinct silhouettes along with dozens of maps which are pretty different despite the unifying them of desert and concrete.[/QUOTE]
you know i've written like 4 different responses to this now trying to work out how exactly that's different in any way from what i've been saying all along
It upsets me when people think that the TF2 artstyle was supposed to be "wacky" or "insane".
It was supposed to be comical but not over the top, influenced a 1950's commercial illustrations
[img_thumb]http://www.trulyace.com/images/1950sBeachBall.jpg[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ca4CXU4LlAo/TO1B7MNw8XI/AAAAAAAAAqg/E2gnuhCEa-w/s1600/6%2B-%2B1950s_advert_Jantzen_swimsuits.jpg[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://blog.voyou.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/jantzen54pur02.jpg[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]http://www.fuelyourillustration.com/files/fifties_illo_01.jpg[/img_thumb]
This style made the game colorful but with distinguishable elements, and alongside the illustration theme the game also took place in the 1950-1960's.
The main difference between these illustrations and the TF2 characters and elements in the world is that TF2 was a comical take on these illustrations, exaggerating things like proportions and comical elements.
Aside from being based on 1950's illustrations, it was also based on 1950-1960's action movies, particularly the secret agent ones. A lot of the characters are based on 1950-1960's action-movie/spy-movie stereotypes like the Russian dumb-muscle henchman, the overly sophisticated secret agent, the mad sadistic German scientist with retro-futuristic advanced technology, the mad inventor with advanced engineering technology, he outback hunter Australian, the mentally unstable commando-mode war veteran... and so forth.
To hold all the classes and the general artstyle together, the whole story of the game was that they were hired mercenaries for two top-secret organizations that secretly controlled all of the worlds resources. This is why all the original maps take place between 2 concealed spy-bases, this is why you have a strict announcer yelling at you to do your work. On top of all this, the comical artstyle helps explain how the devil two rival companies could end up building secret-spy-bases right next to eachother.
i'm going to go get hammered on stolichnaya, heavy out
We know all this.
If valve just makes their games co-op/multilayer online from now on, they would of lost my love. Valve do out standing multilayer and singleplayer games, and can still do so no need to change!
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;29439210]you know i've written like 4 different responses to this now trying to work out how exactly that's different in any way from what i've been saying all along[/QUOTE]
We just use our words differently I guess.
Additionally, the characters and teams were all supposed to be both harmonic with the environment while still being easily distinguishable.
This is why the game put heavy emphasis on Red vs Blue.
The Red team uses only warm colors and uses mostly wooden structures, while Blu team uses cold colors and industrial structures.
The characters exaggerated proportions weren't only implemented to make the game look more comical, rather its main purpose was making the character silhouettes more distinguishable from eachother. Likely the comical art-style is a result of this feature, how Valve best explained the exaggerated features and how two rival companies could be dumb enough to build concealed spy-bases right next to each other without noticing anything.
Yeah exactly
[QUOTE=Simski;29439257]Additionally, the characters and teams were all supposed to be both harmonic with the environment while still being easily distinguishable.
This is why the game put heavy emphasis on Red vs Blue.
The Red team uses only warm colors and uses mostly wooden structures, while Blu team uses cold colors and industrial structures.
The characters exaggerated proportions weren't only implemented to make the game look more comical, rather its main purpose was making the character silhouettes more distinguishable from eachother. Likely the comical art-style is a result of this feature, how Valve best explained the exaggerated features and how two rival companies could be dumb enough to build concealed spy-bases right next to each other without noticing anything.[/QUOTE]
I'm glad to see someones analyzed their art style
or at least I hope you did and didn't just verbatim that from someone
they talked in the commentaries about being inspired by a particular artist, forget who it was though.
[editline]26th April 2011[/editline]
simski said basically what I meant with better words
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;29439279]I'm glad to see someones analyzed their art style
or at least I hope you did and didn't just verbatim that from someone[/QUOTE]
I've owned the game since 2007. I loved the game then, but I can't stand playing it anymore because it makes me depressed what they did to my once favorite game.
Until the implement a "Team Fortress 2 Classic" server option, I'll only look on with despair.
Everyone ignored the fact that this said it would do away with isolated single-player experience.......Portal 2 had a co-op and isolated experience. That just probably means that you will no longer have two separate campaigns, just one that can be played alone and with friends. You guys act like Valve is as fucking retarded as Infinity Ward. They only do bad stuff with release dates.
[QUOTE=Hamsterjuice;29432471]lol i put more hours into most singleplayer games than i do most multiplayer games[/QUOTE]
I definitely don't.
Though Half-lives are still great, can't wait for the next installment, not just the third episode for Half-life 2.
[QUOTE=Simski;29439294]I've owned the game since 2007. I loved the game then, but I can't stand playing it anymore because it makes me depressed what they did to my once favorite game.
Until the implement a "Team Fortress 2 Classic" server option, I'll only look on with despair.[/QUOTE]
Are you a beta player?
[QUOTE=Simski;29439257]Additionally, the characters and teams were all supposed to be both harmonic with the environment while still being easily distinguishable.
This is why the game put heavy emphasis on Red vs Blue.
The Red team uses only warm colors and uses mostly wooden structures, while Blu team uses cold colors and industrial structures.
The characters exaggerated proportions weren't only implemented to make the game look more comical, rather its main purpose was making the character silhouettes more distinguishable from eachother. Likely the comical art-style is a result of this feature, how Valve best explained the exaggerated features and how two rival companies could be dumb enough to build concealed spy-bases right next to each other without noticing anything.[/QUOTE]
Actually, ever since the class updates started rolling in, Valve wasn't that concerned about the artstyle in Team Fortress 2 anymore, even though I personally believe the first rounds of class updates fit very nicely, including the hats. In fact these updates were my definite favorites, and are the reason I still bother to play the game pretty much.
Only if they had stick to that kind of plan, with only MannCo store added for an on-demand access to their update-content for the game. It's just that ever since the MannConomy, they started to put less and less effort into the updates. "Kinda like dealing 10% heroin instead of pure 100% stuff" for the ~same price if that makes any sense at all, pretty bizarre example yeah.
[QUOTE=Lizard Of Guilt;29439312]Are you a beta player?[/QUOTE]
Sadly not, I bought the game with the Orange box and I had not as much interest in playing TF2 as I had with playing Episode 2 and Portal. I was VERY positively surprised though.
[editline]26th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;29439332]Actually, ever since the class updates started rolling in, Valve wasn't that concerned about the artstyle in Team Fortress 2 anymore, even though I personally believe the first rounds of class updates fit very nicely, including the hats.
Only if they had stick to that kind of plan, with only MannCo store added for an on-demand access to their update-content for the game. imo.[/QUOTE]
I agree, the first hats and weapons may not have fit the original artstyle PERFECTLY, but you could at least see that they had put some effort into retaining it.
What with all the Medieval/Unusuals/Paint/Sho-Gun/Rift/Hats as of now... not so much.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;29439332]Actually, ever since the class updates started rolling in, Valve wasn't that concerned about the artstyle in Team Fortress 2 anymore, even though I personally believe the first rounds of class updates fit very nicely, including the hats.
Only if they had stick to that kind of plan, with only MannCo store added for an on-demand access to their update-content for the game. It's just that ever since the MannConomy, they started to put less and less effort into the updates. "Kinda like dealing 10% heroin instead of pure 100% stuff" for the ~same price if that makes any sense at all, pretty bizarre example yeah.[/QUOTE]
well the community is picking up the slack, which is rad
[QUOTE=Lizard Of Guilt;29439355]well the community is picking up the slack, which is rad[/QUOTE]
Would be, if it wasn't for the community caring less about how unfitting the things they create are than Valve.
[QUOTE=Lizard Of Guilt;29439355]well the community is picking up the slack, which is rad[/QUOTE]
I don't give a shit about the community. Valve has proven themselves to be creative and good at creating class updates. Makes me hope they are just stewing their creativity..
[QUOTE=Simski;29439367]Would be, if it wasn't for the community caring less about how unfitting the things they create are than Valve.[/QUOTE]
like chemical alia's hat?
[editline]26th April 2011[/editline]
like the submissions that the community makes have to be approved by valve
Wait, am i in the right thread? I thought i went to a thread about valve ditching single-player and all i can now see is discussion about TF2.
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