Yeah, I've played through the singleplayer in Portal 2 three times, but I only did the coop once just to say I did it. I didn't give a fuck about it, and I regret doing it honestly. Its not that the gameplay was bad, it was great, and the story was alright. I absolutely hated being chained to ignorant fucks who couldn't figure out a simple goddamned puzzle when I am very clearly explaining it to them, and then have them going "DUD UR SO FUKING DUM! I NO HOW TA DO DIS!" and then they get destroyed because they flung themselves in to a massive fucking pit whilst I have to solve most of the damn thing on my own.
I don't care if the multiplayer is optional or not, keep it the fuck out unless it is something like Deathmatch, where I can at the least work on my own without being directly tied to stupid fuckheads.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29426466]Yeah, I've played through the singleplayer in Portal 2 three times, but I only did the coop once just to say I did it. I didn't give a fuck about it, and I regret doing it honestly. Its not that the gameplay was bad, it was great, and the story was alright. I absolutely hated being chained to ignorant fucks who couldn't figure out a simple goddamned puzzle when I am very clearly explaining it to them, and then have them going "DUD UR SO FUKING DUM! I NO HOW TA DO DIS!" and then they get destroyed because they flung themselves in to a massive fucking pit whilst I have to solve most of the damn thing on my own.
I don't care if the multiplayer is optional or not, keep it the fuck out unless it is something like Deathmatch, where I can at the least work on my own without being directly tied to stupid fuckheads.[/QUOTE]
I played co-op with a friend and loved it. Why were you playing with random idiots?
You could still have the effect of being alone while in co-op, but you are separated from each other.
Of course, they would most likely have to remove ways of being able to contact each other in game, during these scenes, so it doesn't disrupt the atmosphere.
[QUOTE=GhostSonic;29426491]I played co-op with a friend a loved it. Why were you playing with random idiots?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Portal 2 co-op is a lot of fun with a friend. I found that part of it's enjoyability was the fact that you had a friend, and the fact that you could talk easier and just be that little bit sillier with each other.
Wait, double post?
We should email Gabe and tell him this is a bad idea.
[QUOTE=deathstarboot;29426533]We should email Gabe and tell him this is a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
I think we should wait and see what this even means before we bug Gabe about it.
[QUOTE=Elspin;29426431]Well alright - let's say I messed up, and all valve means is they'll be adding the ABILITY to play co-op, and lets see what this would do to half life.
A game having co-op places certain restraints on the story, namely that 2 characters have to be together AT ALL TIMES, unless they want one player to have to stop playing for half an hour. Imagine if they had to cut out the entire part of episode 2 where alyx nearly dies, taking out one of the main motivations out of the game so you could both be playing at the same time.
Go back and look at the plots for the half life game, and imagine having to take out every single part (or at least dumb down) any event that separated you from alyx. Occasionally putting you alone in half life often had the effect of making things more tense, or even making it a little bit freaky in places such as ravenholm. If you're always with someone else, it might dumb it down completely.[/QUOTE]
At the same time, Valve's policy with story driven games has always been about being immersed in your character, which is why Gordon Freeman is the silent protagonist. It breaks the illusion if you see yourself or you hear him say something, because it becomes someone else, not you. Portal somewhat bypassed this by making a rather unique silent protagonist even though you could see them because you were still in complete control and the way you saw your character was particular to the game and its style itself, not because you saw them through a third-person cutscene or something stupid like that. Cooperative modes do not have that at all, There is a very clear division between you and the characters. The immersion just doesn't exist because you never can really get connected to the characters, and there is constantly someone else present intervening with their own world, creating conflict with yours. The only real way this can ever work is if there are someone you are very familiar with, like a close friend or a family member. And even then, it can be hard to maintain the immersion.
[QUOTE=:-P;29426186]fp valve defense squadron mobilize[/QUOTE]
No more like, FP Valve Whine Assault Force mobilize.
"Probably"
Maybe they still have some SP-only games they want to release.
What neat ideas will we see of their MP games though?
[sp]Team Fortress 3 and Left 4 Dead 3?[/sp]
[QUOTE=Elspin;29426431]Well alright - let's say I messed up, and all valve means is they'll be adding the ABILITY to play co-op, and lets see what this would do to half life.
A game having co-op places certain restraints on the story, namely that 2 characters have to be together AT ALL TIMES, unless they want one player to have to stop playing for half an hour. Imagine if they had to cut out the entire part of episode 2 where alyx nearly dies, taking out one of the main motivations out of the game so you could both be playing at the same time.
Go back and look at the plots for the half life game, and imagine having to take out every single part (or at least dumb down) any event that separated you from alyx. Occasionally putting you alone in half life often had the effect of making things more tense, or even making it a little bit freaky in places such as ravenholm. If you're always with someone else, it might dumb it down completely.[/QUOTE]
there could be a side plot for the co op mode, or you could be a rebel that follows you around
-snip-
[QUOTE=Omolong;29426492]You could still have the effect of being alone while in co-op, but you are separated from each other.
Of course, they would most likely have to remove ways of being able to contact each other in game, during these scenes, so it doesn't disrupt the atmosphere.[/QUOTE]
That just wouldn't be the same though, first of all it doesn't make sense if you're sitting beside the person you're playing with (split-screen on console possibly?), second of all the inbuilt steam client would make it as easy as opening the overlay.
Most of you think this is a bad idea, as I did, but then I realized it's Valve, they'll make it work.
A lot of single player games or single player elements of games that also include multiplayer seem to try and "link in" with scoreboards and such, not sure what this means though...
[QUOTE=aydin690;29425155]Singleplayer games have no replayability.[/QUOTE]
Um, Half-life series, Mass Effect series, The Elder Scrolls series, etc.
Ohh and just as a side rant: Shut the fuck up about "Hat Fortress 2." Just shut the fuck up. You have exactly [B]zero valid arguments[/B]. They are [B]not required[/B] by any means, they have [B]no impact on gameplay[/B], and they [B]do not change the aesthetics[/B] of the game at all. Hell, to be quite honest theyare [B]beneficial[/B]. They give players [B]more reason to play[/B], create a [B]diverse appearance[/B] for the characters, and they allow the player the [B]ability to personalize the characters[/B] to their own particular tastes.
I swear that few things make me more irritated than the people who bitch about hats in Team Fortress 2. But joyous days that is no longer the case. Now they bitch about Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29427167]Ohh and just as a side rant: Shut the fuck up about "Hat Fortress 2." Just shut the fuck up. You have exactly [B]zero valid arguments[/B]. They are [B]not required[/B] by any means, they have [B]no impact on gameplay[/B], and they [B]do not change the aesthetics[/B] of the game at all. Hell, to be quite honest theyare [B]beneficial[/B]. They give players [B]more reason to play[/B], create a [B]diverse appearance[/B] for the characters, and they allow the player the [B]ability to personalize the characters[/B] to their own particular tastes.
I swear that few things make me more irritated than the people who bitch about hats in Team Fortress 2. But joyous days that is no longer the case. Now they bitch about Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2.[/QUOTE]
Sir, I heart you :3:
That's exactly my point with hats in TF2. And the trading servers you don't have to fucking go to!
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29426671]At the same time, Valve's policy with story driven games has always been about being immersed in your character, which is why Gordon Freeman is the silent protagonist. It breaks the illusion if you see yourself or you hear him say something, because it becomes someone else, not you. Portal somewhat bypassed this by making a rather unique silent protagonist even though you could see them because you were still in complete control and the way you saw your character was particular to the game and its style itself, not because you saw them through a third-person cutscene or something stupid like that. Cooperative modes do not have that at all, There is a very clear division between you and the characters. The immersion just doesn't exist because you never can really get connected to the characters, and there is constantly someone else present intervening with their own world, creating conflict with yours. The only real way this can ever work is if there are someone you are very familiar with, like a close friend or a family member. And even then, it can be hard to maintain the immersion.[/QUOTE]
But in Coop I very much felt like a personality core -_-
[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;29427139]Um, Half-life series, Mass Effect series, The Elder Scrolls series, etc.[/QUOTE]
It is harder to include open RPGs in this, as you can make each play through as different as you like. I think he means linear singleplayer games.
[QUOTE=Omolong;29427233]It is harder to include open RPGs in this, as you can make each play through as different as you like. I think he means linear singleplayer games.[/QUOTE]
Uncharted :v:
Anyone who doesn't like Uncharted 1 & 2 for some dumb reason beyond "its not my kind of game" should go to hell.
[QUOTE=Mr. Bleak;29424732]Wow Valve, really?
Uhh, so what about those people like me that have those 'rare' moments where they don't want to deal with the idiots online and/or want a story (if you haven't noticed, multiplayer 'stories' are never as good as their singleplayer counterparts)?[/QUOTE]
Look at Valves track record. Do you REALLY think they're gonna just throw it all away and start making shit?
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29427167]Ohh and just as a side rant: Shut the fuck up about "Hat Fortress 2." Just shut the fuck up. You have exactly [B]zero valid arguments[/B]. They are [B]not required[/B] by any means, they have [B]no impact on gameplay[/B], and they [B]do not change the aesthetics[/B] of the game at all. Hell, to be quite honest theyare [B]beneficial[/B]. They give players [B]more reason to play[/B], create a [B]diverse appearance[/B] for the characters, and they allow the player the [B]ability to personalize the characters[/B] to their own particular tastes.
I swear that few things make me more irritated than the people who bitch about hats in Team Fortress 2. But joyous days that is no longer the case. Now they bitch about Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2.[/QUOTE]
hats suck
[QUOTE=Omolong;29427233]It is harder to include open RPGs in this, as you can make each play through as different as you like. I think he means linear singleplayer games.[/QUOTE]
Splinter Cell, Hitman, Rainbow Six, Doom. Problem is, so many games now include RPG style elements or open worlds that its hard to find games without them now. I'd rather see RPG elements in the Half-Life games than multiplayer, because that allows me to develop as I see fit, to make my experience more closely fit me than just a simple preset.
[editline]25th April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swilly;29427254]Uncharted :v:
Anyone who doesn't like Uncharted 1 & 2 for some dumb reason beyond "its not my kind of game" should go to hell.[/QUOTE]
Ohh yeah, Uncharted and Tomb Raider.
Hell, those aren't really games that fit me, but I still really like them.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29427167]Ohh and just as a side rant: Shut the fuck up about "Hat Fortress 2." Just shut the fuck up. You have exactly [B]zero valid arguments[/B]. They are [B]not required[/B] by any means, they have [B]no impact on gameplay[/B], and they [B]do not change the aesthetics[/B] of the game at all. Hell, to be quite honest theyare [B]beneficial[/B]. They give players [B]more reason to play[/B], create a [B]diverse appearance[/B] for the characters, and they allow the player the [B]ability to personalize the characters[/B] to their own particular tastes.
I swear that few things make me more irritated than the people who bitch about hats in Team Fortress 2. But joyous days that is no longer the case. Now they bitch about Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2.[/QUOTE]
Yeah until they decide to drop singleplayer so they can fill the shit up with microtransactions.
[QUOTE=Contag;29426129]Don't have internet?
[B]FUCKING SCUMBAG YOU DON'T DESERVE TO PLAY GAMES[/B][/QUOTE]
Don't have internet?
You can't use Steam anyway, so how is this any different?
[QUOTE=Zeddy;29427167]Ohh and just as a side rant: Shut the fuck up about "Hat Fortress 2." Just shut the fuck up. You have exactly [B]zero valid arguments[/B]. They are [B]not required[/B] by any means, they have [B]no impact on gameplay[/B], and they [B]do not change the aesthetics[/B] of the game at all. Hell, to be quite honest theyare [B]beneficial[/B]. They give players [B]more reason to play[/B], create a [B]diverse appearance[/B] for the characters, and they allow the player the [B]ability to personalize the characters[/B] to their own particular tastes.
I swear that few things make me more irritated than the people who bitch about hats in Team Fortress 2. But joyous days that is no longer the case. Now they bitch about Team Fortress 2 and Portal 2.[/QUOTE]
Did you forget the set bonuses that require hats?
So much for no gameplay effects.
Oh, and maybe that the items required to craft a weapon have pretty much tripled from what it was, plus the large influx of new weapons, had no gameplay effect either?
People getting weapons from preorder bonuses?
Believe it or not, but since valve has started adding community weapons and selling them, the gameplay has changed pretty massively.
ITT: People coming to conclusions about Valve and their future without knowing anything.
Just because they want to focus on online play doesn't instantly mean that their games will be bad from now on. I prefer coop over singleplayer. Anything is better when you play it with your friends. But that is my opinion.
And people whine over hats and whatnot for no reason. It really shows how good Valve's games are. People can't find any real flaws and just decide to whine about things that do not matter.
If single-player games are going out of fashion I will be very inclined to crawl up in my closet and die (...or perhaps just replay old single-player classics). Multi-player games just have so many issues; constant Internet connection, the dependency on other players (co op with random strangers is horrible most of the time; only liars claim otherwise), waining popularity after the first years,
The main drawback of single-player games is lack of re-playability, and in many cases that isn't even an issue. The re-playability issue is a weak one that can and has always been worked around in good games. Deus Ex is an old singleplayer game with massive re-play potential. The Witcher 2 will have 16 different endings. RPG's with character development often have different specialization options. Some games even have randomization to make each play-through unique. Heck, even games like Half-Life have re-playability value because of how much there is to discover. Though I suppose the market is going wherever it's going.
Knowing Valve though, I assume/hope that this is is more about tacking on optional co-op gamemodes to their classic, excellent campaigns (two-player Half-Life 2 as Alyx and Gordon, anyone?). They're not just gonna throw away everything that has gotten them where they are today.
[QUOTE=CommanderPT;29427608]ITT: People coming to conclusions about Valve and their future without knowing anything.
Just because they want to focus on online play doesn't instantly mean that their games will be bad from now on. I prefer coop over singleplayer. Anything is better when you play it with your friends. But that is my opinion.
And people whine over hats and whatnot for no reason. It really shows how good Valve's games are. People can't find any real flaws and just decide to whine about things that do not matter.[/QUOTE]Also people are overlooking the other quote: "What this all means is something Newell is still trying to figure out." in other words not even Valve/Gabe knows what it is yet so who are we to declare its going to be horrible.
So its slippery slope all over again? Just like Portal 2?
MOTHER FUCKERS STOP USING IT.
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