Carrier says it will spend millions automating Indiana plant, plans to lay off workers Trump 'saved' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51506213]I praised Trump in the first thread about this because 1000 jobs saved from outsourcing is still 1000 families able to keep a home with food on the table. But not only was the 1000 number inflated, most of those jobs are going to be lost to automation anyway as the tax break Pence is giving them isn't even going to workers. What a fucking joke.[/QUOTE] Everyone saw this coming. And tbh, if I was a company, I would looking for tax credits to do the same. Might as well play Trumps game and make him look like the loser while you better profits

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;51506016]Too bad all that requires a college education and none of these people will be able to send their kids to colleges without a source of income.[/QUOTE] This is why free higher education actually has legitimate economic benefits.

[del]At least they're gonna be American robots.[/del] At least they're gonna be making American profits.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51506273]At least they're gonna be American robots.[/QUOTE] We'll probably design them but most of the parts will probably be fabricated somewhere in east asia.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51505642]I thought Trump was a good businessman.[/QUOTE] Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka, Trump Airlines... [editline]9th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=FinalHunter;51505697]Okay? People still have to build the robots, write the software they run on, manage the plant, maintain the production line. Some jobs is better than none. I get that it's a trivial number of jobs in the grand scheme of things and probably a publicity stunt but it's better than it going overseas.[/QUOTE] You don't need a lot of people to maintain robots, and many robots are built by... Wait for it... Robots. And once the software is written, all you have to do is configure it and off it goes until it breaks down.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51506105]Eco-terrorism, except against robots[/QUOTE] The Luddites will rise again!

[QUOTE=soulharvester;51506327]We'll probably design them but most of the parts will probably be fabricated somewhere in east asia.[/QUOTE] A lot of industrial robots also come from Europe.

[QUOTE=Smoot;51505941]People should be pissed at Carrier, not Trump or Obama or anyone else that didn't sign these jobs away in the first place. I bet nobody here even knows the name of the CEO of Carrier.[/QUOTE] People should be pissed at Trump because he either was fucked by a company in a move that was so transparent you could've used it as a window, or because he knowingly lied to the public while giving tax breaks to a company just for some short-term PR and probably some favors. No one here is blaming Trump for Carrier moving the jobs.

I'm glad that he is creating more robot jobs. Us robots need jobs too you know.

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;51505845][video]https://youtu.be/7Pq-S557XQU[/video] So when do we start to think about what will happen to our society when robots will take over most jobs?[/QUOTE] Honestly, I think society is going to collapse because too many people have their heads in the sand. Both our society and economic systems are 100% incompatible with automation. And no one will do a damn thing about it. I really don't want to think about it because there's nothing I can do to prevent the imminent collapse. I just want to be happy and feel safe, but it's apparent that's not going to happen.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51505697]Okay? People still have to build the robots, write the software they run on, manage the plant, maintain the production line. Some jobs is better than none. I get that it's a trivial number of jobs in the grand scheme of things and probably a publicity stunt but it's better than it going overseas.[/QUOTE] The programmer is replacing an enormous amount of jobs and he's not staying there. If he does his job well he's expected to work on that company for weeks and then come back there for a few weeks any time they invent a new air conditioner so he can train the robots. He's not wven really working for carrier either.

I don't know if calling people out is the right way to go about doing things but I'd really like to see Conscript (or King Tiger) get back to me regarding Trump being the choice over Clinton for the "native working class" because those guys were trying to sell me on that and I noticed they haven't posted in awhile. I think this thread about the Carrier deal would be a good place to talk about Trump and workers, or that other thread about the guy who wants to lower the minimum wage.

[QUOTE=NapyDaWise;51505845] So when do we start to think about what will happen to our society when robots will take over most jobs?[/QUOTE] Same thing we currently do, put poor and homeless people into the for-profit private prison system and leave them there or wait for them to die off on the streets. Works pretty well currently.

[I]God fucking damn it[/I] Can we protest this by boycotting and spreading the word of boycotting? Or does Carrier have the monopoly on some products?

[QUOTE=Smoot;51505915]You guys are blaming Trump, who had literally nothing to do with Carrier leaving, like he was the one responsible in the first place. For fucks sake, there's a net gain here. It was lose all 1500 or keep 1000 a bit longer. It's like people will fabricate any fucking story just to get their point across that "Trump is bad wahh!!!". The dude isn't even in office yet. Last I checked, Carrier decided to leave when Obama was in office so maybe someone should make up some bullshit about how "Obama let 1500 jobs out of the country!!!!!".[/QUOTE] People are pointing this out because literally every expert who analyzed Trump's plan to "bring back jobs" concluded he was trying to save jobs that either don't exist anymore, or soon won't anyway due to automation. Like every one of his other policies, his job plan fails to address the real issues and instead panders to misguided gut feeling. This article is just one more example of that in action.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51505697]Okay? People still have to build the robots, write the software they run on, manage the plant, maintain the production line. Some jobs is better than none. I get that it's a trivial number of jobs in the grand scheme of things and probably a publicity stunt but it's better than it going overseas.[/QUOTE] Because unskilled labor in plants can all just go grab their bachelor's degrees and sign on as engineers, right? And who's going to pay for that? You're describing programmers and engineers, not usually people of the same economic class as the workers they replaced.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51505697]Okay? People still have to build the robots, write the software they run on, manage the plant, maintain the production line. Some jobs is better than none. I get that it's a trivial number of jobs in the grand scheme of things and probably a publicity stunt but it's better than it going overseas.[/QUOTE] dont get me wrong, the machineists at my plant are very good at what they do and smart about it but they probably don't know the first thing about programming complex robotics tasks or designing a process. Most of them don't even know what we're making just that you put the stuff into here and then there and bam, part. also once you start getting into robotics and heavy automation you leave the realm of what your normal in house maintinence guys can deal with and so those are again some special groups of people who can diagnose, repair or correct issues. QA is not typically open to your every day factory guy, unless theyve been management of the process but that takes years of experience.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;51505697]Okay? People still have to build the robots, write the software they run on, manage the plant, maintain the production line. Some jobs is better than none. I get that it's a trivial number of jobs in the grand scheme of things and probably a publicity stunt but it's better than it going overseas.[/QUOTE] So say theres 10 people on a production line, they all get replaced by robots. You dont need 10 people to maintain 10 robots. You need one person that gets called once every 6 months to do that

[QUOTE=PsycheClops;51507553][I]God fucking damn it[/I] Can we protest this by boycotting and spreading the word of boycotting? Or does Carrier have the monopoly on some products?[/QUOTE] Carrier gets by with contracts, not necessarily because they're better. Lennox has units just as good, if not better than Carrier. BTW, sub-companies of Carrier include Payne and Bryant. Just a fun fact. Source - My last job was working installs for a Carrier dealer.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;51505642]I thought Trump was a good businessman. Did he really not see this coming? I'm a little surprised, but surely someone who's supposedly good at business should know these things...?[/QUOTE] It's the flip side of the coin for $15 minimum wage.

[QUOTE=Ridge;51510301]It's the flip side of the coin for $15 minimum wage.[/QUOTE] Nah, it's the effect of having a poor businessman trying to run our country like a business lol

[QUOTE=Ridge;51510301]It's the flip side of the coin for $15 minimum wage.[/QUOTE] We are seeing companies look to automation well before the minimum wage even hits $15. hmmm really makes u think.....

Encouraging manufacturing in the states with automation rather than shipping manufacturing overseas to exploit low health and safety regulations is a good thing. Automation taking over was always going to happen, accelerating that movement rather than delaying it due to currently cheaper labor in the third world is a good thing. However, Trump's "approach" of bribing specific companies is not a good way to go about achieving that goal.

[QUOTE=Ridge;51510301]It's the flip side of the coin for $15 minimum wage.[/QUOTE] hey spoiler alert: whether the minimum wage is 7 dollars or 15 dollars or there is no minimum wage, corporations will instill automation because it's cheaper and easier and more efficient

[QUOTE=Smoot;51505941]People should be pissed at Carrier, not Trump or Obama or anyone else that didn't sign these jobs away in the first place. I bet nobody here even knows the name of the CEO of Carrier.[/QUOTE] Companies exist to maximize profit; the government, of which Obama is and Trump will be the leader of, exists to protect the people from companies (among other things). Getting pissed at the companies won't accomplish anything in the long run, because they will continue to maximize profit. Getting pissed at the government, whose job it is to serve the people (not the companies) can accomplish something because only the government has the long-term power to bring the companies to heel.

we should encourage companies to make full use of automation in this country to bring companies here, but at the same time we need to find ways to employ people at more than just bare basic levels or dramatically lower the cost of living such that you don't need to be making 30-40$/hour to afford a fairly normal standard of living. trump and the republicans don't really seem to want to do much of tackling affordability as that would require redistributing wealth and tax benefits from the top towards the bottom which leaves us with this frantic struggle to try to keep our manufacturing jobs here which only results in pitting countries, states, and individual communities against each other in a race to the bottom to secure jobs for a few years [editline]10th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Judas;51511194]hey spoiler alert: whether the minimum wage is 7 dollars or 15 dollars or there is no minimum wage, corporations will instill automation because it's cheaper and easier and more efficient[/QUOTE] they'll even install automation where its not really needed simply to have capacity. Places often will have way excess capacity built into the machines so that they can absorb spikes better even if it means potentially screwing up the quality and or messing with the supply chain

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51511033]We are seeing companies look to automation well before the minimum wage even hits $15. hmmm really makes u think.....[/QUOTE] Makes me think they are idiots. Lower classes spend money much more regularly and with even distribution than upper classes. YOU WANT THE LOWER ECONOMIC CLASS TO HAVE MOST OF THE MONEY BECAUSE THEY WILL ACTUALLY SPEND IT. It really isn't a complicated subject. Money needs to change hands regularly in an economy. If your minimum wage is low and the concentration of wealth in the upper class is high, you slowly stagnate.

[QUOTE=GunFox;51511951]Makes me think they are idiots. Lower classes spend money much more regularly and with even distribution than upper classes. YOU WANT THE LOWER ECONOMIC CLASS TO HAVE MOST OF THE MONEY BECAUSE THEY WILL ACTUALLY SPEND IT. It really isn't a complicated subject. Money needs to change hands regularly in an economy. If your minimum wage is low and the concentration of wealth in the upper class is high, you slowly stagnate.[/QUOTE] You see this happen a lot in this country. Wages have fallen or stayed the same and the general cost of living has shot up. And then the government sit around scratching their heads over the fact that no one under the age of 50 can afford to buy a house.

[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;51512444]You see this happen a lot in this country. Wages have fallen or stayed the same and the general cost of living has shot up. And then the government sit around scratching their heads over the fact that no one under the age of 50 can afford to buy a house.[/QUOTE] Usually because those in the government are part of the fun end of the upper class.