• A new DRM system is proving difficult to crack - FIFA 15 and Lords of the Fallen remain unpirateable
    224 replies, posted
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;46437414]Game and DRM .exes protected by very long encryption keys to guard contents (and that doesn't matter to user, these .exes launch like normal). Said contents being challenge and answer generators. The challenges and answers will be once use, very long (so there can be millions of "good" once use codes) and based on a PIN generated when the game was installed and authenticated at purchase. PIN itself is based on your account with seller and your hardware IDs, and checked against these every time you launch game. So the DRM will recognise if you are trying to run the game without the original account and using a different PC. You can't spoof the authorization between game and DRM .exes, so to crack the game you will have to brute force the encryption key on one of them. Depending on key length, this can take anywhere from seconds to millenia on even a good PC... I don't know if that is exactly how this system works, but that's how I'd write a DRM program.[/QUOTE] Alternatively, modify the assembly and "return true"
[QUOTE=geel9;46437475]Alternatively, modify the assembly and "return true"[/QUOTE] Just something else to put an encryption key on... I mean, the whole system falls as soon as you brute force one of the keys, but the idea is to buy enough time for the game to sell. And cracking each new game release will require brute forcing a different key. You could even change the keys between updates to the same game...
[QUOTE=gk99;46432048]I dunno, how much outrage have you heard about FIFA or LotF?[/QUOTE] when it comes to LotF it's usually people bitching about it copy catting dark souls :v:
Hey just a heads up it was confirmed earlier in the day that rockstar is NOT using this DRM system for GTA V and only appear on the site as GTA IV uses denuvo. Source: [URL]http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/11/06/grand-theft-auto-v-pc-version-to-use-denuvo-drm-on-top-of-steam/[/URL] [URL]http://www.incgamers.com/2014/11/grand-theft-auto-v-will-not-use-denuvo-drm-says-company-co-owner[/URL] Apologies if posted earlier as i skipped pages 2 and 3.
[QUOTE=.Lain;46430708]i could count the people who say that and are actually truthful about it on my fingers[/QUOTE] Let's take a recent example, far cry 4 backing out of steam support, favouring their own shitty uplay drm. Which means I won't be buying it.
[QUOTE=catbarf;46431838]It's complicated, but the simplest explanation is that DRM that is compartmentalized and easy to remove without affecting the game is also easy to bypass for the same reason. Effective DRM is so integrated with the game's code that you can't disable or remove it without rendering the game non-functional, so there'd be a significant investment of time and effort for even the developers to switch it off.[/QUOTE] It's likely just an extra build step and a compiler switch. Disabling it takes very little work and a recompilation. They could not be running the DRM while debugging, as it's so invasive. In fact they probably have code in place to specifically target debuggers, much like some viruses. Having a debugger attached, single-stepping through the DRM'd parts and catching thrown exceptions with the debugger would likely cause the DRM to trigger some anti-debugging code.
[QUOTE=catbarf;46431838]It's complicated, but the simplest explanation is that DRM that is compartmentalized and easy to remove without affecting the game is also easy to bypass for the same reason. Effective DRM is so integrated with the game's code that you can't disable or remove it without rendering the game non-functional, so there'd be a significant investment of time and effort for even the developers to switch it off.[/QUOTE] Unless the coders practice some really really shit coding, removing even the most spartan DRM shouldn't be more than matter of a single afternoon for a single developer well vested in the build.
Rockstar's logo has been in the page for ages. They might also use their drm in their development tools, so they are useless if leaked.
[QUOTE=Megadave;46434851][url]http://www.incgamers.com/2014/11/grand-theft-auto-v-will-not-use-denuvo-drm-says-company-co-owner[/url] hope this is true[/QUOTE] Well IncGamers [url=http://incgamers.com/2014/07/unbelievable-rust-petition-appeals-to-uncancel-rust]have been fooled before [/url] [editline]8th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=eirexe;46432469][t]http://i.imgur.com/9XJFEIc.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] K, yeah mods change the fuggin title will ya
[QUOTE=AlexConnor;46437414]Game and DRM .exes protected by very long encryption keys to guard contents (and that doesn't matter to user, these .exes launch like normal).[/quote] If you're going to run code, you're going to have to put it into memory unencrypted. Which means that if it's encrypted, you need the encryption key. And that needs to be put in memory/registers, unencrypted, at some point. And that's where a cracker would intercept it. No brute forcing required. [quote]You can't spoof the authorization between game and DRM .exes[/QUOTE] Except that's exactly what cracks do. Or mess with the authorisation check itself.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;46438224]If you're going to run code, you're going to have to put it into memory unencrypted. Which means that if it's encrypted, you need the encryption key. And that needs to be put in memory/registers, unencrypted, at some point. And that's where a cracker would intercept it. No brute forcing required.[/QUOTE] In practice, this is true. However a working implementation of fully homomorphic encryption would mean that it is not necessary to decrypt code in order to execute it. It's under active research because it has other implications for cloud services and such. I believe it won't be long until we have FHE which runs fast enough to be practical for real data.
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;46429739]assassin's creed 2 took a few weeks to fully crack as well, I think that was the longest before this (not counting stuff that scene groups just didn't care about).[/QUOTE] While AC2 is a recent example, it is by no means the longest. Not by a long shot. I realize this is an old example but Splinter Cell Chaos Theory's DRM took slightly more than a year to crack. I've also heard rumors that Anno 1404 took even longer. Conversely, most sources indicate it took somewhere between 2.5 and 3 weeks before Assassin's Creed 2 was completely cracked, though a semi-functional crack appeared just 2 days after AC2 was released.
[QUOTE=Frost 31;46438373]I realize this is an old example but Splinter Cell Chaos Theory's DRM took slightly more than a year to crack.[/QUOTE] Who the fuck pirates a game such as Splinter Cell Chaos Theory? What the fuck
I'm conflicted by this whole thing. If the team behind the DRM isn't full-on retarded, and it doesn't cause problems for people, I'm probably OK with this.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;46438537]Who the fuck pirates a game such as Splinter Cell Chaos Theory? What the fuck[/QUOTE] Considering it was one of the most popular games of 2005, right up there with Resident Evil 4 and God of War, a lot of people tried to pirate it. And failed for a full year, which is insanely impressive. Just because it is not as popular anymore doesn't mean it wasn't popular back in the day. Also, the PC version is literally the 3rd highest rated Splinter Cell game on metacritic and the Xbox version is the highest rated.
Seeing as GTA5 doesn't have this DRM anymore I don't really mind. I mean it sucks that it exists but at least it isn't going to quadruple the system requirements of a game that everyone is hyped for.
What is preventing people from just removing this from the game offline? Does it have some sort of wifi beam that can transmit information even offline? or is it so entangled in the game files that it'll fuck up something big.
[QUOTE=Megadave;46439200]What is preventing people from just removing this from the game offline? Does it have some sort of wifi beam that can transmit information even offline?[B] or is it so entangled in the game files that it'll fuck up something big[/B].[/QUOTE] this is pretty much what it is DRM now is pretty much a test for crackers. extending how long they have to try different reverse engineering methods until they get one that doesn't interfere with it. we're a while off making things impossible to reverse engineer practically
[QUOTE=spectator1;46427705]More drm shit for gta v? yeah gta iv wasn't affected by those at all. oh wait it was, corporate assholes.[/QUOTE] I bought GTA:IV on the PC. I can't play it due to some shit.
[QUOTE=Crimor;46437836]Let's take a recent example, far cry 4 backing out of steam support, favouring their own shitty uplay drm. Which means I won't be buying it.[/QUOTE] If it was on Steam, wouldn't it use uplay anyway? Meaning that this is them essentially removing one layer of DRM? I think it's back on Steam anyway, except for the UK.
[QUOTE=Keyblockor1;46439409]I bought GTA:IV on the PC. I can't play it due to some shit.[/QUOTE] Due to "some shit"? That is very descriptive.
Until there's no link between this DRM and performance issues, this could be a good thing. No DRM is unbreakable since nothing truly is, but if delays pirates for a few weeks it has done its job, and that's what companies want. Most of the sales come from the first few weeks anyway, so it won't matter much if after 6 months there's a cracked version. If there's no performance and other privacy issues this is a good thing where both paying customers and businesses win, everyone knows PC market gets a lot of crap because of piracy, this could fix that.
[QUOTE=Megadave;46434851][url]http://www.incgamers.com/2014/11/grand-theft-auto-v-will-not-use-denuvo-drm-says-company-co-owner[/url] hope this is true[/QUOTE] why do you hope? are you anxious you wont be able to pirate the video game you obviously feel entitled to?
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;46441422]why do you hope? are you anxious you wont be able to pirate the video game you obviously feel entitled to?[/QUOTE] what drm does is funny in that it does almost nothing but fuck over legitimate users, while yeah they can actually work and prevent piracy its done at the cost of still fucking over legitimate users.
Kinda related, but is Lords of the Fallen even good? GMG has it on sale for $35 and it [I]just[/I] came out.
[QUOTE=SpotEnemyBoat;46434821]That's just one less game to buy next year, I'll just support CDPR by purchasing the DRM free Witcher 3 instead of supporting rockstar's invasive drm.[/QUOTE] Has DRM in general =/= invasive like omg lol way to make assumptions with no basis [editline]8th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeos;46441972]Kinda related, but is Lords of the Fallen even good? GMG has it on sale for $35 and it [I]just[/I] came out.[/QUOTE] I've heard people say it's pretty good, though relatively short and runs badly. [editline]8th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=rampageturke 2;46441422]why do you hope? are you anxious you wont be able to pirate the video game you obviously feel entitled to?[/QUOTE] Or he just doesn't want to have to go through a secondary system that isn't Steam to play the damn game he paid $60 for? Steam is already a, albeit shitty, DRM.
[QUOTE=Keyblockor1;46439409]I bought GTA:IV on the PC. I can't play it due to some shit.[/QUOTE] Google xliveless Should solve your shit [editline]a[/editline] fuck sorry about the double post
[QUOTE=gk99;46442297]Has DRM in general =/= invasive [/QUOTE] Yes, all digital restrictions management is invasive
Co-founder of Denuvo already denied the software being used in GTAV for PC. [URL]http://www.incgamers.com/2014/11/grand-theft-auto-v-will-not-use-denuvo-drm-says-company-co-owner[/URL] [URL]http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/11/06/grand-theft-auto-v-pc-version-to-use-denuvo-drm-on-top-of-steam/[/URL] I'm late
[QUOTE=Swiket;46427533]From the Denuvo website: :suicide:[/QUOTE] I will refuse to buy it if it's by the SecuROM people. SecuROM was WAY too fucking intrusive and could be considered malware/spyware.
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