• Trayvon Martin's mother speaks out against stop-frisk
    54 replies, posted
Why would you want to stop me?
to me it seems that frisking people of certain races because the crime rates in the area are associated mostly with those races just reeks of a slippery slope
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;41906062]I think the point is if they have a specific crime they are investigating, and a specific description of a suspect which this person fits, then yes that's probable cause to stop them. You can't just just say "Mostly blacks are committing crimes in this area, so I'll stop and frisk black people", because the INDIVIDUAL is not suspected of anything. That person is innocent until proven guilty remember? So unless you have probable cause(the crime and he matches the description) leave him the fuck alone![/QUOTE] That was what the two iterations of "I don't agree with this law" were for. I was just saying the cops weren't inherently wrong for doing what they did. If you were a cop would you stop one Black, then one Hispanic, then search for an hour for a white person to stop? I don't think so because you would be fired for not doing your job. Not only are the ratios of crimes being committed higher among these races, but so are the number of people living in the [B]areas in question[/B]. The bold part being the main focus of my argument.
[QUOTE=frozensoda;41906227]If you were a cop would you stop one Black, then one Hispanic, then search for an hour for a white person to stop? [/QUOTE] I wouldn't stop anyone without a reason to stop them. For instance, if I'm trying to patrol and reduce burglaries, I wouldn't stop any individual unless there was a specific burglary suspect I was looking for and that person fit the description. Stopping people randomly IS inherently wrong, in my opinion. And if the only reason you are stopping someone is because that person is part of a larger group, members of which have committed crimes, then you are stopping them randomly. A cop shouldn't be able to stop me unless I, as in me myself and I, am suspected in some violation of the law. Not because of how long my hair is, how I dress, if I talk with an accent, what my religion is, or where I live, or what color my skin is. None of those things have anything to do with any crime.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;41907187]I wouldn't stop anyone without a reason to stop them. For instance, if I'm trying to patrol and reduce burglaries, I wouldn't stop any individual unless there was a specific burglary suspect I was looking for and that person fit the description. [/QUOTE] Thats called reactive policing. We like [I]proactive[/I] policing, which is what the NYPD tried to do.. but did horribly. The NYPD Stop&Frisk is not the same as one described in Terry vs Ohio
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;41907187]I wouldn't stop anyone without a reason to stop them. For instance, if I'm trying to patrol and reduce burglaries, I wouldn't stop any individual unless there was a specific burglary suspect I was looking for and that person fit the description. [B]Stopping people randomly IS inherently wrong[/B], in my opinion. And if the only reason you are stopping someone is because that person is part of a larger group, members of which have committed crimes, then you are stopping them randomly. A cop shouldn't be able to stop me unless I, as in me myself and I, am suspected in some violation of the law. Not because of how long my hair is, how I dress, if I talk with an accent, what my religion is, or where I live, or what color my skin is. None of those things have anything to do with any crime.[/QUOTE] Yeah it is, but it's not really the cops fault for following procedure. I thought I made that abundantly clear. The law is wrong, the cops are not.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41901958]Do you care if the government listens to your phone calls and watches everything you do on your PC? As long as you're not cooking meth and making bombs, you have nothing to hide, right?[/QUOTE] No I do not care if a government computer knows what kind of porn I watch because 1. it's not a human 2. If it were a human, it has no connection to people I meet, and I would never know who that person is, so they cannot embarass me over things I don't want other people to know 3. It doesn't have to actively stop me to search me 4. The government doesn't care what type of porn I watch 5. The system the NSA said exists (which may or may not be what actually happens) says that no human can track what people are doing unless they have proof to do so. If the government really did have a person watching on ever end judging everyone for what they do on the computer, I would be offended not that they're invading privacy but that they are wasting so much money paying these people. Just to clarify though (and be on topic), I feel stop-and-frisk is bad for the fact that it violates 3/5 of the things I said I would care about. It's a human, who lives in the same community as you, and forces you to stop and interrupt your day if you're not a criminal
[QUOTE=Sword and Paint;41901562]This woman is a racist because she thinks because she's black that she will get checked because of her race.[/QUOTE] when are you going to stop posting forever [editline]20th August 2013[/editline] also areolop your title is retarded
[QUOTE=Itachi_Crow;41907952]when are you going to stop posting forever [editline]20th August 2013[/editline] also areolop your title is retarded[/QUOTE] Way to contribute! I think that the ideology of stop-frisk is good, it's just too poorly done by so many officers and departments.
The racial profiling involving stop-and-frisk is quite real, I was driving home from class one day and I randomly tuned to an interview with ?uestlove in which he talked about all the times he's been pulled over without any reason. This isn't the same interview I heard but it's still the same topic (skip to 1:50): [video=youtube;jNWzGVvLPd0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNWzGVvLPd0[/video] It was a real eye-opener.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;41906117]to me it seems that frisking people of certain races because the crime rates in the area are associated mostly with those races just reeks of a slippery slope[/QUOTE] Doesn't actually have to be a race association but a locale one. The practice might be concentrated in areas with higher crime (the fact that 10% of the stops lead to an arrest or summons is kinda indicative of that) and blacks or hispanics might make a larger segment of the population in them. You need a more complex rundown of the figures. But yes, probably a part of the stops do target race as well which is not right obviously.
[QUOTE=meatwad253;41900723]Kinda off topic but why would anyone complain about police frisking randomly? Obviously there wouldn't be a problem unless you actually have something to hide.[/QUOTE] "First they came for the Jews, but since I wasn't a jew, I didn't say anything. Then they came for the Blacks, and since I wasn't black, I didn't say anything. Then they came for the Homosexuals, and since I wasn't a Homosexual, I didn't say anything. Then they came for people like me, and my kin were slaughtered because no one stood up and said anything in the name of our civil rights." - I don't know who said this first.
[QUOTE=draugur;41911715]"First they came for the Jews, but since I wasn't a jew, I didn't say anything. Then they came for the Blacks, and since I wasn't black, I didn't say anything. Then they came for the Homosexuals, and since I wasn't a Homosexual, I didn't say anything. Then they came for people like me, and my kin were slaughtered because no one stood up and said anything in the name of our civil rights." - I don't know who said this first.[/QUOTE] Niemöller. The actual content varies because he used it a number of times, but it's cited as: [quote]First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the socialists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak for me.[/quote]
[QUOTE=meatwad253;41900723]Kinda off topic but why would anyone complain about police frisking randomly? Obviously there wouldn't be a problem unless you actually have something to hide.[/QUOTE] there's no such thing as "random searching." as a kid I was stopped for "random searching" every time I went to get on a plane; why? because the TSA has a guidebook of 20-30 elements that catch their attention, numerous ones which I happened to hit on and im a white kid lmao, if i were brown awww shit
Though I do agree that random frisks shouldn't happen in the first place, there is the simple fact that these ethnic groups have higher incarceration percentages; The reason this is that way is due to many factors, many of them entirely out of those communities control, but the objective fact remains that the Latino and Black community carry a higher percentage of crime than other groups.
[QUOTE=katbug;41911906]Though I do agree that random frisks shouldn't happen in the first place, there is the simple fact that these ethnic groups have higher incarceration percentages; The reason this is that way is due to many factors, many of them entirely out of those communities control, but the objective fact remains that the Latino and Black community carry a higher percentage of crime than other groups.[/QUOTE] hm i wonder if it has to do with skin color or socioeconomic status, living conditions, neighborhood, and the influence of racism on incarceration hmm hmMMMMM
NY, shitting on constitutional rights more every day.
[QUOTE=ac/14;41911919]NY, shitting on constitutional rights more every day.[/QUOTE] This has been going on since the fucking Patriot act was thought of.
[QUOTE=draugur;41911932]This has been going on since the fucking Patriot act was thought of.[/QUOTE] not all of the USA PATRIOT act were bad.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;41911918]hm i wonder if it has to do with skin color or socioeconomic status, living conditions, neighborhood, and the influence of racism on incarceration hmm hmMMMMM[/QUOTE] [quote]The reason this is that way is due to many factors, many of them entirely out of those communities control[/quote] I didn't say it was their fault/due to their race.
[QUOTE=areolop;41911972]not all of the USA PATRIOT act were bad.[/QUOTE] gee i wonder why you think that [editline]21st August 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=katbug;41911906]Though I do agree that random frisks shouldn't happen in the first place, there is the simple fact that these ethnic groups have higher incarceration percentages; The reason this is that way is due to many factors, many of them entirely out of those communities control, but the objective fact remains that the Latino and Black community carry a higher percentage of crime than other groups.[/QUOTE] maybe one of the reasons they have higher incarceration and crime rates is in part due to cops specifically targeting them [editline]21st August 2013[/editline] not saying that at you katbug just speculating
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;41912072]g maybe one of the reasons they have higher incarceration and crime rates is in part due to cops specifically targeting them [/QUOTE] I would like to believe that, but the race and poverty and poverty and crime lead make me believe otherwise.
yeah but i mean, obviously when they're being randomly stopped 87% of the time there's gonna be disparities in arrest rates and shit
[QUOTE=katbug;41912111]I would like to believe that, but the race and poverty and poverty and crime lead make me believe otherwise.[/QUOTE] blacks and hispanics report violent crimes at higher rates than whites do, and are often penalized for doing so obviously poverty plays a role but whites actually still engage in crime at higher rates even controlled for socioeconomic status [editline]21st August 2013[/editline] main reason being that in most circumstances they can get away with it, and do
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;41912152]blacks and hispanics report violent crimes at higher rates than whites do, and are often penalized for doing so obviously poverty plays a role but whites actually still engage in crime at higher rates even controlled for socioeconomic status[/QUOTE] yeah i'm trying to find the study, i remember it was getting posted heaps for awhile, that showed that whites were even more likely to be caught with weed than blacks, but less likely to be arrested/charged for it
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