[QUOTE=squids_eye;40867266]Yes it shows some correlation. It then goes on to say that although there is correlation there is not causation, you can't disregard parts of a study just to suit your purposes and expect people not to call you out on it.[/QUOTE]
Okay, so you just want to end this argument at the interpretation spot? Don't admit that weed shows an obviously negative effect on success (defined by income and educational attainment), say that it's clearly the other factors, it could be the fact that they sleep on their backs for all we know, right?
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;40866806]So they smoked weed at some point in their life and then went on to become successful. Sorry, but I'm not seeing the connection. For all you know, they could have smoked it once and never touched it again in their life. Which doesn't exactly help your point since weed would have had no impact on their life.[/QUOTE]
The idea isn't that they became successful because of weed. The guy referred to marijuana smokers as stupid people. These gentlemen are far from stupid people, regardless of their fame. As in they weren't stupid, they smoked pot, and weren't stupid still. Like you said, it didn't really impact their lives. Have the dots been connected?
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867297]yeah, that basically is my argument. i'm more afraid of being on the highway than i am at a gunshow. it's not really that ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Well that's weird to think, but alright, I see where you stand I guess.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;40866806]So they smoked weed at some point in their life and then went on to become successful. Sorry, but I'm not seeing the connection. For all you know, they could have smoked it once and never touched it again in their life. Which doesn't exactly help your point since weed would have had no impact on their life.[/QUOTE]
But that's the point
If weed had no impact on their life then why is it illegal as if it will have an impact on their life (an implied negative one).
Also to add on the weed doesn't make you lazy thing, my co-worker turns into a super-cleaning machine when he's high. It's fucking great, I love when he gets stoned at work because it means I end up not having to do any clean up at the end of the shift.
Weed is a lot like alchohol in that it won't "make you feel better" or "make you lazy" but more or less just enhance in some way your current mood/additudes/etc. If you are feeling chill and want to get chill, weed will make you chill as hell. If you are in another state of mind, weed is likely just going to do something to that state of mind rather than replace it with "be lazy"
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867303]Okay, so you just want to end this argument at the interpretation spot? Don't admit that weed shows an obviously negative effect on success (defined by income and educational attainment), say that it's clearly the other factors, it could be the fact that they sleep on their backs for all we know, right?[/QUOTE]
if you don't care what he thinks why do you want him to lose this argument so badly?
you do care what he thinks, but only if he thinks you are better than him.
you're really not the introspective type, are you? and that's not a personal attack or a snide comment, although you'll brush it off without asking yourself any questions about your current role in this argument and try to prove that by asking you questions concerning your credibility i must have none.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867259]Okay so you admit it's harmful, but you don't want to admit it's harmful at the same time? Yes everything is capable of harm, it's retarded that you say that because it's so pointless, everything is harmful, but clearly some things are much more often harmful than others, and you people are ignorant of how harmful weed is for whatever reason.
Your logic: "Oh guns are dangerous eh? A toothbrush can be used to murder, everything is dangerous, so what makes guns special?"[/QUOTE]
Of course it can be harmful. No one who knows anything about it says otherwise, occasionally you get the odd stoner who claims that because some studies have shown it can reduce cancer it is some kind of wonderdrug but generally they are just as ignorant as the people who think that smoking weed will kill you.
Alcohol and tobacco are harmful in large quantities but they are both legal.
Paracetamol and Ibuprofen can be harmful in large quantities both legal.
Sugar and artificial sweeteners can be harmful in large quantities, again, both legal.
Even fucking bananas can be harmful in large quantities. I don't see people campaigning in the streets to take them off of shop shelves.
Weed can be harmful, so can almost everything else we put in our bodies on a daily basis.
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867338]if you don't care what he thinks why do you want him to lose this argument so badly?
you do care what he thinks, but only if he thinks you are better than him.
you're really not the introspective type, are you? and that's not a personal attack or a snide comment, although you'll brush it off without asking yourself any questions about your current role in this argument and try to prove that by asking you questions concerning your credibility i must have none.[/QUOTE]
When the fuck did I say I didn't care what he thinks? Why are you so caught up on that? I said I didn't care about your opinions of me, why would I? I do, however, care a bit about people's opinions, especially about things I'm attempting to argue.
Why do you constantly attempt to make this some grand scheme of things argument to throw it away through discouragement instead of actually arguing? I am very introspective, I'm very understanding of myself and I know very well why I believe what I believe, and why I act the way I act. I don't see your point.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;40867354]Of course it can be harmful. No one who knows anything about it says otherwise, occasionally you get the odd stoner who claims that because some studies have shown it can reduce cancer it is some kind of wonderdrug but generally they are just as ignorant as the people who think that smoking weed will kill you.
Alcohol and tobacco are harmful in large quantities but they are both legal.
Paracetamol and Ibuprofen can be harmful in large quantities both legal.
Sugar and artificial sweeteners can be harmful in large quantities, again, both legal.
Even fucking bananas can be harmful in large quantities. I don't see people campaigning in the streets to take them off of shop shelves.
Weed can be harmful, so can almost everything else we put in our bodies on a daily basis.[/QUOTE]
ive been telling him for three pages addiction causes laziness and it's easy to be addicted to pot. he doesn't seem to believe me for some reason.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867303]Okay, so you just want to end this argument at the interpretation spot? Don't admit that weed shows an obviously negative effect on success (defined by income and educational attainment), say that it's clearly the other factors, it could be the fact that they sleep on their backs for all we know, right?[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between interpreting something differently and deliberately ignoring the main conclusion of the study.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867364]When the fuck did I say I didn't care what he thinks? Why are you so caught up on that? I said I didn't care about your opinions of me, why would I? I do, however, care a bit about people's opinions, especially about things I'm attempting to argue.
Why do you constantly attempt to make this some grand scheme of things argument to throw it away through discouragement instead of actually arguing? I am very introspective, I'm very understanding of myself and I know very well why I believe what I believe, and why I act the way I act. I don't see your point.[/QUOTE]
you said something earlier about us only arguing these points because of personal investments, like we were idiots for doing so. everyone has personal investments. yours are in a much darker place in this discussion than everyone else's.
to reiterate, you are physically incapable of being objective. you have personal investments in this argument. ask yourself, real hard, why am i here?
do you really think you're doing anyone a favor? or is this for you?
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867364]Why do you constantly attempt to make this some grand scheme of things argument to throw it away through discouragement instead of actually arguing? I am very introspective, I'm very understanding of myself and I know very well why I believe what I believe, and why I act the way I act. I don't see your point.[/QUOTE]
because you constantly attempt to make the argument about how everyone else is so ignorant for not having an opinion that agrees with yours.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;40867354]Of course it can be harmful. No one who knows anything about it says otherwise, occasionally you get the odd stoner who claims that because some studies have shown it can reduce cancer it is some kind of wonderdrug but generally they are just as ignorant as the people who think that smoking weed will kill you.
Alcohol and tobacco are harmful in large quantities but they are both legal.
Paracetamol and Ibuprofen can be harmful in large quantities both legal.
Sugar and artificial sweeteners can be harmful in large quantities, again, both legal.
Even fucking bananas can be harmful in large quantities. I don't see people campaigning in the streets to take them off of shop shelves.
Weed can be harmful, so can almost everything else we put in our bodies on a daily basis.[/QUOTE]
I know, but I'm not arguing to keep it illegal, I'd love for it to be legal for freedom of body reasons, just because it has negatives effects on people doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, it's unfortunate that it shows a (very clear in my opinion) correlation with lower success (in terms of education and income), and people should be told that it causes some serious issues if you aren't completely careful so that they can be ready, or at least knowledgeable about the fact (the fact that you guys don't want to admit to its negative influence so adamantly shows me that pot smokers are unable to at least admit the negative influences weed possesses). You guys are attempting to accuse me of arguing points I've never argued, and in fact have said that I don't agree with. Just because I believe people should know, admit to, and be conscious of the negative influences doesn't mean I'm a dirty anti-pot legislative crusader. In fact I'm the opposite, I'd probably agree with you guys on a lot of points regarding pot's optimal legislative future, but I simply believe, and have attempted to substantiate, that it has a seriously real negative influence on success.
[editline]1st June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867396]you said something earlier about us only arguing these points because of personal investments, like we were idiots for doing so. everyone has personal investments. yours are in a much darker place in this discussion than everyone else's.
to reiterate, you are physically incapable of being objective. you have personal investments in this argument. ask yourself, real hard, why am i here?
do you really think you're doing anyone a favor? or is this for you?[/QUOTE]
I have clearly less personal investments than people like you who wish to justify their habit to themselves. I put great worry into remaining objective and conscientious about things I do, and that's just what I'm doing. I can admit the dangers, why can't you? You don't have to stop using it, you don't have to want it illegal, it doesn't stop me, I just know what I'm getting myself into.
Lets stop arguing about how badly we are all arguing and stay on the topic at hand. He has just as much right to disagree with us as we do to disagree with him, if you keep calling him out on being a hypocrite or telling him he is a closed minded biased idiot this is just going to turn into a flame war.
[QUOTE=joes33431;40867229]you are the literal definition of a hypocrite
the [I]very defintion[/I]
keep throwin' em at me, lambda[/QUOTE]
This is embarrassing to see someone go to such lengths to attempt to shame someone because they disagree with you.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867407]You guys are attempting to accuse me of arguing points I've never argued...[/QUOTE]
please refer to my post on page 4 to show you how you're doing the [I]exact same thing[/I].
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867407]I have clearly less personal investments than people like you who wish to justify their habit to themselves.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867407][B]You guys are attempting to accuse me of arguing points I've never argued, and in fact have said that I don't agree with.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867407]I know, but I'm not arguing to keep it illegal, I'd love for it to be legal for freedom of body reasons, just because it has negatives effects on people doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, it's unfortunate that it shows a (very clear in my opinion) correlation with lower success (in terms of education and income), and people should be told that it causes some serious issues if you aren't completely careful so that they can be ready, or at least knowledgeable about the fact (the fact that you guys don't want to admit to its negative influence so adamantly shows me that pot smokers are unable to at least admit the negative influences weed possesses). You guys are attempting to accuse me of arguing points I've never argued, and in fact have said that I don't agree with. Just because I believe people should know, admit to, and be conscious of the negative influences doesn't mean I'm a dirty anti-pot legislative crusader. In fact I'm the opposite, I'd probably agree with you guys on a lot of points regarding pot's optimal legislative future, but I simply believe, and have attempted to substantiate, that it has a seriously real negative influence on success.
[editline]1st June 2013[/editline]
I have clearly less personal investments than people like you who wish to justify their habit to themselves. I put great worry into remaining objective and conscientious about things I do, and that's just what I'm doing. I can admit the dangers, why can't you? You don't have to stop using it, you don't have to want it illegal, it doesn't stop me, I just know what I'm getting myself into.[/QUOTE]
and i've said like five times in this thread maybe i don't need an anonymous internet batman to angrily tell me shit i learned half a decade ago. putting great worry into remaining objective does not work, friend. it is impossible. you are a human. be as subjective as can be, and be happy with it. to reiterate the point i've made a million times that you have just now actually responded to, you are incapable of being objective. stop believing you are. stop believing it's possible.
and on a side note, even if you were a cyborg capable of thinking without emotion, do you think people would give a shit? do you think your argument would be worth anything, even then, if you had no emotional or unseen connection to the topics you discussed/learned about? no. no one would care. still.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867441]This is embarrassing to see someone go to such lengths to attempt to shame someone because they disagree with you.[/QUOTE]
oh look, another straw-man to add to the list.
thanks, lambda. <3
[QUOTE=joes33431;40867445]please refer to my post on page 4 to show you how you're doing the [I]exact same thing[/I].[/QUOTE]
Okay here's some actual work for you:
When have I argued that I want weed to be illegal?
When have I stated that weed invariably makes you lazy?
When have I made the claim that I look down upon weed smokers?
When have I shown any attempt to make you feel bad except in reply to clear ignorance?
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867469]Okay here's some actual work for you:
When have I argued that I want weed to be illegal?
When have I stated that weed invariably makes you lazy?
When have I made the claim that I look down upon weed smokers?
When have I shown any attempt to make you feel bad except in reply to clear ignorance?[/QUOTE]
here's some work for you:
how is this at all relevant to how you made a post about people making straw-mans, and then turned around and made numerous other straw-man arguments?
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867450]and i've said like five times in this thread maybe i don't need an anonymous internet batman to angrily tell me shit i learned half a decade ago. putting great worry into remaining objective does not work, friend. it is impossible. you are a human. be as subjective as can be, and be happy with it. to reiterate the point i've made a million times that you have just now actually responded to, you are incapable of being objective. stop believing you are. stop believing it's possible.[/QUOTE]
Yes I'm attempting to be a fucking internet batman because I disagree with you while adhering to basic rules of arguing etiquette. I'm not even angry, just a little frustrated at your guys's rather annoying arguing techniques (including jabs without any counter-argument or counter-evidence [no one has posted counter-evidence yet]). I can't be clearly objective, I never said I could, but I think, and have shown why I think, that I'm more objective than the average bear.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867493]Yes I'm attempting to be a fucking internet batman because I disagree with you while adhering to basic rules of arguing etiquette. I'm not even angry, just a little frustrated at your guys's rather annoying arguing techniques (including jabs without any counter-argument or counter-evidence [no one has posted counter-evidence yet]). I can't be clearly objective, I never said I could, but I think, and have shown why I think, that I'm more objective than the average bear.[/QUOTE]
didn't you say you were going to stop posting 3 pages ago?
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867469]Okay here's some actual work for you:
When have I argued that I want weed to be illegal?
When have I stated that weed invariably makes you lazy?
When have I made the claim that I look down upon weed smokers?
When have I shown any attempt to make you feel bad except in reply to clear ignorance?[/QUOTE]
Well you did agree with the guy saying the stupid weed smokers will open up jobs for you majestic sober individuals.
[QUOTE=joes33431;40867488]here's some work for you:
how is this at all relevant to how you made a post about people making straw-mans, and then turned around and made numerous other straw-man arguments?[/QUOTE]
How is being constantly straw manned not relevant to being accused of a straw manner? If anything it's hypocritical you fight against my 'straw mans', but you don't attempt to stop anyone else.
[editline]1st June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=stupid10er;40867503]didn't you say you were going to stop posting 3 pages ago?[/QUOTE]
i failed, sorry for not letting you believe what you believe without contention.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867407]I know, but I'm not arguing to keep it illegal, I'd love for it to be legal for freedom of body reasons, just because it has negatives effects on people doesn't mean we shouldn't do it, it's unfortunate that it shows a (very clear in my opinion) correlation with lower success (in terms of education and income), and people should be told that it causes some serious issues if you aren't completely careful so that they can be ready, or at least knowledgeable about the fact (the fact that you guys don't want to admit to its negative influence so adamantly shows me that pot smokers are unable to at least admit the negative influences weed possesses). You guys are attempting to accuse me of arguing points I've never argued, and in fact have said that I don't agree with. Just because I believe people should know, admit to, and be conscious of the negative influences doesn't mean I'm a dirty anti-pot legislative crusader. In fact I'm the opposite, I'd probably agree with you guys on a lot of points regarding pot's optimal legislative future, but I simply believe, and have attempted to substantiate, that it has a seriously real negative influence on success.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if there is much point in arguing about whether or not cannabis causes a lack of success through laziness, there just isn't enough legitimate evidence either way to prove or disprove it. All of the sources you have posted are potentially bias and well over 10 years old. I can provide plenty of anecdotal evidence but obviously that doesn't stand for shit in a debate and I'm not in the mood to go trawling around the internet for half baked (excuse the pun) studies that are likely just as biased and unreliable as yours. I still stand by what I have said and I don't expect you will change your mind any time soon.
[QUOTE=Ripvayne;40867506]Well you did agree with the guy saying the stupid weed smokers will open up jobs for you majestic sober individuals.[/QUOTE]
I more agreed with him on the "weed causes laziness" claim, which is what everyone disagreed with, so I replied assuring him that he is fighting a good fight, even if he is getting dumbed by everyone.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867507]How is being constantly straw manned not relevant to being accused of a straw manner? If anything it's hypocritical you fight against my 'straw mans', but you don't attempt to stop anyone else.[/QUOTE]
because you're supposedly very objective and are, according to you, adhering to the rules of a proper debate.
i'm just showing you how you aren't.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867507]
[B]i failed, sorry for not letting you believe what you believe without contention.[/B][/QUOTE]
except i still believe it without contention, internet batman
you still don't know why you're arguing do you
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867507]How is being constantly straw manned not relevant to being accused of a straw manner? If anything it's hypocritical you fight against my 'straw mans', but you don't attempt to stop anyone else.
[editline]1st June 2013[/editline]
i failed, sorry for not letting you believe what you believe without contention.[/QUOTE]
where can i learn to be an internet crusader too?
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867538]except i still believe it without contention, internet batman
you still don't know why you're arguing do you[/QUOTE]
No, I guess I don't. I've never seen so many immovable objects attempting to justify their actions so desperately that they abandon rules of logic and decency.
[editline]1st June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=stupid10er;40867558]where can i learn to be an internet crusader too?[/QUOTE]
Please tell me more about how because I disagree with you I'm an "internet crusader", love the personal jabs.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;40867436]Lets stop arguing about how badly we are all arguing and stay on the topic at hand. He has just as much right to disagree with us as we do to disagree with him, if you keep calling him out on being a hypocrite or telling him he is a closed minded biased idiot this is just going to turn into a flame war.[/QUOTE]
You're probably right.
I'll just see myself out.
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