• Changing US attitudes to legalising marijuana
    257 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867559]No, I guess I don't. I've never seen so many immovable objects attempting to justify their actions so desperately that they abandon rules of logic and decency. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] Please tell me more about how because I disagree with you I'm an "internet crusader", love the personal jabs.[/QUOTE] read the sentence directed at me out loud to yourself. go ahead, no one will hear you. keep believing you're objectivity is real, because humans are totally capable of it, logically.
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867576]read the sentence directed at me out loud to yourself. go ahead, no one will hear you. keep believing you're objectivity is real, because humans are totally capable of it, logically.[/QUOTE] Okay, that doesn't even really matter and you're obsessing over a minor detail, I'm not saying I'm absolutely objective, I never made that claim, I'm just claiming I'm more objective than you guys, by your logic there's no point arguing ever because everyone is wrong and biased and subjective humans who are worthless.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867589]Okay, that doesn't even really matter and you're obsessing over a minor detail, I'm not saying I'm absolutely objective, I never made that claim, I'm just claiming I'm more objective than you guys, by your logic there's no point arguing ever because everyone is wrong and biased and subjective humans who are worthless.[/QUOTE] Yes! Now you understand! Now go outside and play before dinner. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] and there's still room to argue when you have a reason to do so. just make sure you actually have one. remember a minute ago when you said you didn't know why you were arguing? that's a good time to stop.
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867598]Yes! Now you understand! Now go outside and play before dinner.[/QUOTE] Yes please condescend me, really sell it to me about how condescending I am for disagreeing with you, and tell me further about how bad that is even though you do the same thing.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867619]Yes please condescend me, really sell it to me about how condescending I am for disagreeing with you, and tell me further about how bad that is even though you do the same thing.[/QUOTE] it just took you so ungodly long to accept that not everyone gives a shit about your self-perceived 'objectivity', i couldn't help myself. forgive me. i say not everyone meaning most people, but hey maybe you'll make a friend.
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867639]it just took you so ungodly long to accept that not everyone gives a shit about your self-perceived 'objectivity', i couldn't help myself. forgive me. i say not everyone meaning most people, but hey maybe you'll make a friend.[/QUOTE] You're ridiculous, I don't mean a personal insult, but you're acting like a child here, you aren't arguing, you are just attempting to taunt me. It's unfortunate that you're like this, and I'm sure you can argue very well in other situations, but this isn't one of them.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867619]Yes please condescend me, really sell it to me about how condescending I am for disagreeing with you, and tell me further about how bad that is even though you do the same thing.[/QUOTE] You shouldn't reply to condescension with more condescension, in fact it is probably best if you don't reply at all if they aren't directly countering something related to the real debate. That applies to the lot of you, can we please get back on topic?
As a fairly frequent smoker being friends of other fairly frequent smokers, I can vouch for the statement that some do end up lazier than they would be otherwise. But I also know those that are at their creative best and like to get shit done when theyre high as well. It truly just depends on the person. If the person is lazy when they're not high, they will probably be lazy when they are high. I think it just effects each individual different, and how they'll act when under the influence depends on the persons other hobbies/actions. Kind of hit or miss, but none of that means they are stupid. I don't think you can trust too many studies on the topic, you just have to at least be around it enough to see first hand how people are effected.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;40867690]You shouldn't reply to condescension with more condescension, in fact it is probably best if you don't reply at all if they aren't directly countering something related to the real debate. That applies to the lot of you, can we please get back on topic?[/QUOTE] There is no topic, I attempt to lay down my argument, and I get taunted for trying to be as calm as possible. At this point it's just fire being belligerent towards me, and for now I've been replying for some reason, but I guess that's really only exacerbating the problem considering he seems to be intending to taunt me. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Ripvayne;40867698]As a fairly frequent smoker being friends of other fairly frequent smokers, I can vouch for the statement that some do end up lazier than they would be otherwise. But I also know those that are at their creative best and like to get shit done when theyre high as well. It truly just depends on the person. If the person is lazy when they're not high, they will probably be lazy when they are high. I think it just effects each individual different, and how they'll act when under the influence depends on the persons other hobbies/actions. Kind of hit or miss, but none of that means they are stupid. I don't think you can trust too many studies on the topic, you just have to at least be around it enough to see first hand how people are effected.[/QUOTE] Well on that note, I have seen first hand the effects of weed, and it isn't good. I don't think that anecdotal evidence is useful here, and I await people to question why (as in "I bet he only is like x and you [insert privileged socioeconomic group] think he's a failure!")I have personal experience with weed induced problems.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867716]There is no topic, I attempt to lay down my argument, and I get taunted for trying to be as calm as possible. At this point it's just fire being belligerent towards me, and for now I've been replying for some reason, but I guess that's really only exacerbating the problem considering he seems to be intending to taunt me. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] Well on that note, I have seen first hand the effects of weed, and it isn't good. I don't think that anecdotal evidence is useful here, and I await people to question why I have personal experience with weed induced problems.[/QUOTE] i have first hand experience with crank, crack, alcohol, ecstasy, mushrooms, acid, dmt, pot, pure dxm, cough syrup, pills (opiates), speed (the college kid kind), dmt, and tons of other dangerous horseshit that i would never recommend, and more than half the time, it wasn't pretty. i don't feel the need to 'educate' people from my multiple experiences with all of those things, why do you?
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867788]i have first hand experience with crank, crack, alcohol, ecstasy, mushrooms, acid, dmt, pot, pure dxm, cough syrup, pills (opiates), speed (the college kid kind), dmt, and tons of other dangerous horseshit that i would never recommend, and more than half the time, it wasn't pretty. i don't feel the need to 'educate' people from my multiple experiences with all of those things, why do you?[/QUOTE] Because this is a fucking internet forum where I felt compelled, by human nature, to argue? Why am I not allowed to argue my opinions on an internet forum that is very often used for discussion about things? Why am I a pathetic internet crusader because I feel like doing what everyone else does (argue, discuss, debate, etc)
[QUOTE=Ripvayne;40867698]As a fairly frequent smoker being friends of other fairly frequent smokers, I can vouch for the statement that some do end up lazier than they would be otherwise. But I also know those that are at their creative best and like to get shit done when theyre high as well. It truly just depends on the person. If the person is lazy when they're not high, they will probably be lazy when they are high. I think it just effects each individual different, and how they'll act when under the influence depends on the persons other hobbies/actions. Kind of hit or miss, but none of that means they are stupid. I don't think you can trust too many studies on the topic, you just have to at least be around it enough to see first hand how people are effected.[/QUOTE] No one is arguing that being under the influence of weed can make you lazy (Or I hope not atleast, that much is a given). The argument was about whether or not it continues to make you lazy even when you are sober, which simply isn't true. If we are throwing anecdotes into the mix I have plenty of friends who are weed smokers that are currently in university and doing pretty well regardless of their drug taking, one of them is graduating from Oxford soon with some kind of Mathematics degree. I also know people who smoke weed that are lazy and don't do much but they were lazy before they smoked weed as well so that doesn't mean anything.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867809]Because this is a fucking internet forum where I felt compelled, by human nature, to argue? Why am I not allowed to argue my opinions on an internet forum that is very often used for discussion about things? Why am I a pathetic internet crusader because I feel like doing what everyone else does (argue, discuss, debate, etc)[/QUOTE] maybe because as you have said multiple times you're not arguing about marijuana legalization, making your off topic argument starting opinions awkwardly placed somewhere they won't be taken seriously? and also because you don't know 'why' you're arguing. that's a good reason to not.
[QUOTE=squids_eye;40867819]No one is arguing that being under the influence of weed can make you lazy (Or I hope not atleast, that much is a given). The argument was about whether or not it continues to make you lazy even when you are sober, which simply isn't true. If we are throwing anecdotes into the mix I have plenty of friends who are weed smokers that are currently in university and doing pretty well regardless of their drug taking, one of them is graduating from Oxford soon. I also know people who smoke weed that are lazy and don't do much but they were lazy before the smoked weed as well so that doesn't mean anything.[/QUOTE] And I've already visited this, those people are probably extremely smart and were "destined" to be intelligent or successful, and so therefore weed doesn't have enough of an impact to push them over the edge of failure. It's nice that you know weed smokers that go to university, but that's probably more of a function of yourself (you smoke weed and are university aged, therefore you'd be very much inclined to know and socialize with weed smoking university students) rather than anything. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=innerfire34;40867840]maybe because as you have said multiple times you're not arguing about marijuana legalization, making your off topic argument starting opinions awkwardly placed somewhere they won't be taken seriously?[/QUOTE] Why wouldn't they be taken seriously in a thread about marijuana, its effects on society, and its legalization? Where else could an argument regarding its safety be had? Simply because you're an awful debater who constantly reverts to personal insults and pointless deflections on the ground of "OH YOU ARE WORTHLESS AND OBJECTIVITY IS IMPOSSIBLE" which are completely irrelevant doesn't mean I'm not taken seriously. Maybe I'm not, but that's not my fault, that's the fault of your guys's ignorant desperation to holding a certain belief. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=innerfire34;40867840]maybe because as you have said multiple times you're not arguing about marijuana legalization, making your off topic argument starting opinions awkwardly placed somewhere they won't be taken seriously? and also because you don't know 'why' you're arguing. that's a good reason to not.[/QUOTE] I don't know why I'm arguing because of people like you who are ignorant as shit and not willing to listen to reason or even attempt to take opposition into consideration. I don't not know how why because of any other reason.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867841]And I've already visited this, those people are probably extremely smart and were "destined" to be intelligent or successful, and so therefore weed doesn't have enough of an impact to push them over the edge of failure. It's nice that you know weed smokers that go to university, but that's probably more of a function of yourself (you smoke weed and are university aged, therefore you'd be very much inclined to know and socialize with weed smoking university students) rather than anything. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] Why wouldn't they be taken seriously in a thread about marijuana, its effects on society, and its legalization? Where else could an argument regarding its safety be had? Simply because you're an awful debater who constantly reverts to personal insults and pointless deflections on the ground of "OH YOU ARE WORTHLESS AND OBJECTIVITY IS IMPOSSIBLE" which are completely irrelevant doesn't mean I'm not taken seriously. Maybe I'm not, but that's not my fault, that's the fault of your guys's ignorant desperation to holding a certain belief.[/QUOTE] you seriously don't understand how ignorant it is to say that 'we are at fault' for 'not taking you seriously'? like there are bad consequences to ignoring your poorly thought out opinion? there aren't. no one HAS to take you seriously or is anything less or more for not doing so. no one is at fault, you are pissing in a sea of pissing in a sea of pissing in a sea of piss.
And please don't turn this into how mean I am, just because what you're being is typically seen as negative doesn't mean I'm literally being a dick, I'm just calling it as I see it. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=innerfire34;40867889]you seriously don't understand how ignorant it is to say that 'we are at fault' for 'not taking you seriously'? like there are bad consequences to ignoring your poorly thought out opinion? there aren't.[/QUOTE] Haha, the fact that you refer to my opinion as "poorly thought out" when I've put substantial thought and work into maintaining and clarifying my position is, quite honestly, appalling.
And on a lighter note: the first chart kinda looks like a butt plug. [QUOTE=squids_eye;40865071][t]http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Research/Files/Papers/2013/05/29 politics marijuana legalization galston dionne/PEW chart visualization.JPG[/t][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867889]no one HAS to take you seriously or is anything less or more for not doing so. no one is at fault, you are pissing in a sea of pissing in a sea of pissing in a sea of piss.[/QUOTE] I never said anyone has to take me seriously, I'm saying that you guys (or maybe only you) are ignoring me for some ridiculously stupid reasons (desperate ignorance), I can criticize your reasons for things, I'm not saying "you guys need to respect me", but instead I'm complaining about your reasons for not respecting me. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=zakedodead;40867909]And on a lighter note: the first chart kinda looks like a butt plug.[/QUOTE] Ah social change in the form of a butt plug, truly beautiful.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867896]And please don't turn this into how mean I am, just because what you're being is typically seen as negative doesn't mean I'm literally being a dick, I'm just calling it as I see it. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] Haha, the fact that you refer to my opinion as "poorly thought out" when I've put substantial thought and work into maintaining and clarifying my position is, quite honestly, appalling.[/QUOTE] you really don't understand that you're not doing anyone but yourself a favor, do you
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867841]And I've already visited this, those people are probably extremely smart and were "destined" to be intelligent or successful, and so therefore weed doesn't have enough of an impact to push them over the edge of failure. It's nice that you know weed smokers that go to university, but that's probably more of a function of yourself (you smoke weed and are university aged, therefore you'd be very much inclined to know and socialize with weed smoking university students) rather than anything.[/QUOTE] Or maybe weed didn't have any influence and they stayed smart because they were smart and stayed lazy because they were lazy. Also, for the record I haven't smoked weed in quite a long time and I knew all of these people before they started smoking weed too.
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867931]you really don't understand that you're not doing anyone but yourself a favor, do you[/QUOTE] Okay, cool, you know what? It's amazing that your strategy is to attempt to force a sense of worthlessness on the people you argue with, attempting to argue the abstract concept of debating in general, attempting to discourage them from arguing through your sheer usage of discouraging remarks and quips. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=squids_eye;40867936]Or maybe weed didn't have any influence and they stayed smart because they were smart and stayed lazy because they were lazy. Also, for the record I haven't smoked weed in quite a long time and I knew all of these people before they started smoking weed too.[/QUOTE] Well that's kinda a nature vs nurture argument, in those arguments the answer is typically a mixture of nature and nurture positions, in this case I'd say it'd be that "weed has a suggestive effect rather than an absolute effect, though it still has an effect".
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867943]Okay, cool, you know what? It's amazing that your strategy is to attempt to force a sense of worthlessness on the people you argue with, attempting to argue the abstract concept of debating in general, attempting to discourage them from arguing through your sheer usage of discouraging remarks and quips.[/QUOTE] no one's listening but us, dear the world isn't a better place because you shared your views. maybe if you went to a middle school and talked about them there'd be a point to this, but there isn't. you yourself said you didn't know why you were arguing.
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40867967]no one's listening but us, dear the world isn't a better place because you shared your views. maybe if you went to a middle school and talked about them there'd be a point to this, but there isn't. you yourself said you didn't know why you were arguing.[/QUOTE] Just because you feel worthless doesn't mean you should project your worries and fears on me. It may be worthless for we peasants to do much anything, but regardless this is how we use our time, to entertain ourselves, to share views and opinions. Instead of relishing in the glory of human nature and happiness derived from social situations, you instead choose a nihilistic viewpoint.
I'm impressed with how long this argument has gone on. Kudos to all of you
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40867987]Just because you feel worthless doesn't mean you should project your worries and fears on me. It may be worthless for we peasants to do much anything, but regardless this is how we use our time, to entertain ourselves, to share views and opinions. Instead of relishing in the glory of human nature and happiness derived from social situations, you instead choose a nihilistic viewpoint.[/QUOTE] it's not nihilistic to believe that posting on a fringe gaming forum hardly matters and that strong opinions should be kept to yourself if you don't wish to be disagreed with, it's fucking realistic
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40868045]it's not nihilistic to believe that posting on a fringe gaming forum hardly matters and that strong opinions should be kept to yourself if you don't wish to be disagreed with, it's fucking realistic[/QUOTE] This forum isn't really too much about games as much as it is about community that all shares a common interests of games. With a community comes arguments, discussions, debates, etc, about things that interest people. Turns out weed interests us, and so we discuss vehemently regarding it, and here we are. I don't care if people disagree with me, point out to me where I said that. I simply think that people should disagree with me for better reasons than "you disagree with me" substantiated by straw mans and no actual evidence.
After reading the first page, it becomes clear to me that many people believe Conservatives are mostly old and Christian. Sadly, having lived in a mostly Republican state (Indiana) I can say that is actually not the case. Though that is their primary demographic (and indeed the Church is where they get a huge majority of their support) there is a very frightening amount of young people who are Conservative. I suppose "frightening" is not necessarily the right word here, because it is mostly opinion and I don't think the Conservatives would do a much worse job of handling the government than the Liberals will. My point is that we shouldn't have into these misconceptions of how many young people buy into Conservative ideals. Most of them learn from their parents, just as most Liberals (like me) learned from their parents. I think the demographic will shift very little once the old people die.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40868068]This forum isn't really too much about games as much as it is about community that all shares a common interests of games. With a community comes arguments, discussions, debates, etc, about things that interest people. Turns out weed interests us, and so we discuss vehemently regarding it, and here we are. I don't care if people disagree with me, point out to me where I said that. I simply think that people should disagree with me for better reasons than "you disagree with me" substantiated by straw mans and no actual evidence.[/QUOTE] you believe anyone who doesn't take information from anonymous web forumers as hard fact is at fault for being ignorant [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=BananaFoam;40868081]After reading the first page, it becomes clear to me that many people believe Conservatives are mostly old and Christian. Sadly, having lived in a mostly Republican state (Indiana) I can say that is actually not the case. Though that is their primary demographic (and indeed the Church is where they get a huge majority of their support) there is a very frightening amount of young people who are Conservative. I suppose "frightening" is not necessarily the right word here, because it is mostly opinion and I don't think the Conservatives would do a much worse job of handling the government than the Liberals will. My point is that we shouldn't have into these misconceptions of how many young people buy into Conservative ideals. Most of them learn from their parents, just as most Liberals (like me) learned from their parents. I think the demographic will shift very little once the old people die.[/QUOTE] but, if you think about it, if there are more young people than old people now, someday there will be more old people than there were ever how will we ever smoke pot with the cops?
[QUOTE=innerfire34;40868097]you believe anyone who doesn't take information from anonymous web forumers as hard fact is at fault for being ignorant[/QUOTE] Once again, I have posted scientific studies, not really sure why you believe I'm just making unsubstantiated claims based on nothing. At least I'm making an argument and dealing with the concepts needed to uphold that arguments integrity, unlike you who is just attempting to jab at me personally, or something silly like that. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=innerfire34;40868097]but, if you think about it, if there are more young people than old people now, someday there will be more old people than there were ever how will we ever smoke pot with the cops?[/QUOTE] But "old people" doesn't refer to the literal "people over 56", it refers to the social group of "old people" who were raised in a similar time where they share similar, often bigoted or silly, beliefs.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40868119]Once again, I have posted scientific studies, not really sure why you believe I'm just making unsubstantiated claims based on nothing. At least I'm making an argument and dealing with the concepts needed to uphold that arguments integrity, unlike you who is just attempting to jab at me personally, or something silly like that.[/QUOTE] you have posted links to about.com and a drug rehabilitation website. my case wouldn't get any stronger from posting links to 420chan and dispensaries, so stop taking yourself so seriously for knowing how to copy and paste. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambadvanced;40868119]Once again, I have posted scientific studies, not really sure why you believe I'm just making unsubstantiated claims based on nothing. At least I'm making an argument and dealing with the concepts needed to uphold that arguments integrity, unlike you who is just attempting to jab at me personally, or something silly like that. [editline]1st June 2013[/editline] But "old people" doesn't refer to the literal "people over 56", it refers to the social group of "old people" who were raised in a similar time where they share similar, often bigoted or silly, beliefs.[/QUOTE] then it will blow your mind even more to find out that some times 'old people' were once 'young people' and that somewhere inbetween there was a transformation
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.