The only national healthcare system I'll agree to is one that will apply equally to all politicians and regular citizens.
(I.E. everyone on the same plan)
[QUOTE=helpiminabox;18246307]Wouldn't this be in violation of the 24th amendment?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;18246379]Holy shit, you're right.
Now watch them repeal the 24th Amendment to make way for the Bill.[/QUOTE]
What are you talking about?
[QUOTE=25th Amendment]Section 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
Section 2. The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
[/QUOTE]
I'm moving to Canada.
[QUOTE=Yahnich;18247238]I tried fucking them but they arrested me.[/QUOTE]
same. :\
[QUOTE=Dan2593;18246167]Why not do what us brits do with health care and find a way to worry about it later.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but most americans think it will only make them communist or socialist.
[QUOTE=GravyKing;18252085]Yeah, but most americans think it will only make them communist or socialist.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand what's so bad about injecting a tiny bit of socialism anyway...
It's just a buzz word.
[QUOTE=DrMortician;18252111]I don't understand what's so bad about injecting a tiny bit of socialism anyway...
It's just a buzz word.[/QUOTE]
I blame the media, CNN and Fox always are like "Awww shit, Obama wants universal healthcare, he's a fucking socialist and wants to put everyone into hard labor."
I was just at DC yesterday. A bunch of people were protesting this subject. I suppose it's just an every day thing.
[url]http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html[/url]
Seriously, we are being beaten by a few third world countries.
I don't think America has changed much since the late 1700's.
[QUOTE=Owen Lol;18252225]I was just at DC yesterday. A bunch of people were protesting this subject. I suppose it's just an every day thing.[/QUOTE]
in DC ? yeah.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;18247054]...Source?
You can't just say "Well I read somewhere that..." and make it true.[/QUOTE]
You want sauces? I got ya [url=http://www.publiusforum.com/pdfs/jcthealthcareletter.pdf]sauces (the PDF kind)[/url]
Did anyone else notice that the thread above this is called "House Passes Healthcare Bill"?
Pretty fucking :irony:
[QUOTE=Wolf_Marine;18255459]You want sauces? I got ya [url=http://www.publiusforum.com/pdfs/jcthealthcareletter.pdf]sauces (the PDF kind)[/url][/QUOTE]
Dammit. I was really hoping they took that out.
Guess I'll be paying fines. :/
"This additional tax does not apply if the maintainence of acceptable coverage would cause hardship to the individual or if the person's income falls below the minimum level for a federal tax return."
Okay. If you're unemployed or in serious poverty, you're exempt. I fail to see the problem.
[QUOTE=djzwicblaze;18252052]I'm moving to Canada.[/QUOTE]
Tough luck, we have universal healthcare here too. I'm surprised you didn't know this about your neighboring country.
[editline]03:02AM[/editline]
Actually no I'm not.
Paying my taxes is unconstitutional! I don't want to pay money to the government if I don't to! I shouldn't go to jail for it!
Stop bitching. Practically EVERY other 1st world country has proper healthcare.
[QUOTE=Destroyertf;18246122]Yes, infact we should let poor people die because they cant pay expensive surgerys. Its the way to progress for the richest country in the world.[/QUOTE]
Or you know poor people who can't afford to buy insurance will still get fined. It's basically forcing you to be insured, and it isn't addressing the problem of pricing.
As hard as it is to accept, health care is much like food and housing. It is a [i]good[/i], not a right. For health care to cost what it should, it has to be subject to the free market.
[QUOTE=RayK;18257052]Or you know poor people who can't afford to buy insurance will still get fined. It's basically forcing you to be insured, and it isn't addressing the problem of pricing.
As hard as it is to accept, health care is much like food and housing. It is a [i]good[/i], not a right. For health care to cost what it should, it has to be subject to the free market.[/QUOTE]
The free market isn't free.
Corupt bastards
[QUOTE=Aman V;18257028]Paying my taxes is unconstitutional! I don't want to pay money to the government if I don't to! I shouldn't go to jail for it!
Stop bitching. Practically EVERY other 1st world country has proper healthcare.[/QUOTE]
Again, this isn't "proper" by any means. Countries with universal healthcare pay inflated prices for it. This is because they set the price they will pay, and not the market.
[QUOTE=RayK;18257063] Countries with universal healthcare pay inflated prices for it. This is because they set the price they will pay, and not the market.[/QUOTE]
Is that a bad thing?
[QUOTE=RayK;18257063]Again, this isn't "proper" by any means. Countries with universal healthcare pay inflated prices for it. This is because they set the price they will pay, and not the market.[/QUOTE]
Er, inflated as pertaining to what? Because as I understand it we already pay more money for health care than them.
[QUOTE=RayK;18257052]Or you know poor people who can't afford to buy insurance will still get fined.[/quote]
Um, no, they won't. There's a very freakin clear fact, just posted, that people who will be caused hardship by the tax (it's not even a fine, it's a 2.5% income tax) are exempted from it, and the only people getting fines and jail time are people evading taxes, just like always.
[quote]As hard as it is to accept, health care is much like food and housing. It is a [i]good[/i], not a right. For health care to cost what it should, it has to be subject to the free market.[/QUOTE]
Considering that our current president won by campaigning on a platform of healthcare for all, clearly the majority of the public does not feel the same way as you do. Just like at one point, long ago, the public decided that it was no longer okay to enslave people based on skin color.
[QUOTE=RayK;18257052]Or you know poor people who can't afford to buy insurance will still get fined. It's basically forcing you to be insured, and it isn't addressing the problem of pricing.
As hard as it is to accept, health care is much like food and housing. It is a [i]good[/i], not a right. For health care to cost what it should, it has to be subject to the free market.[/QUOTE]
You know I never really thought of comparing healthcare to food.
People bitch and complain if the price of milk goes up. But with health insurance, individuals never see most of the cost. If the people had to pay the full price themselves, there would be a huge outcry. People would say "This is way too much, we are [b]not[/b] going to pay for this at the current price," and the price would have to go down.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;18257087]Er, inflated as pertaining to what? Because as I understand it we already pay more money for health care than them.[/QUOTE]
That's because the government still controls the price in our current system through medicare. Then the price gouging by insurance companies is absolutely ridiculous.
[QUOTE=RayK;18257052]Or you know poor people who can't afford to buy insurance will still get fined. It's basically forcing you to be insured, and it isn't addressing the problem of pricing.
As hard as it is to accept, health care is much like food and housing. It is a [i]good[/i], not a right. For health care to cost what it should, it has to be subject to the free market.[/QUOTE]
What is a life worth?
[QUOTE=Luke510;18267224]What is a life worth?[/QUOTE]
You can't live without food, so should food be viewed the same way as healthcare?
As a matter of fact, you'll die sooner without food than you will without healthcare.
Part of the reason why food is cheap is because individuals have to buy their own food. If the price of milk goes up, everybody complains. But if the price of heart surgery goes up, nobody cares because they're not really paying for it. People do complain about health insurance becoming more expensive. But it's becoming expensive because doctors are gouging the insurance companies because they know that the insurance companies will have to pay it.
John Doe will go into the doctor's office to get an X-ray and he is never told how much it will cost, so he just goes in and does it. Now that the service has been provided, the doctor sends an enormous bill to Mr. Doe's insurance company. The insurance company has to pay for it. If John Doe had to pay for it, he would demand to know the price before getting the X-ray, and if it was too much he wouldn't do it. And if enough people do that, hospitals will find that nobody is willing to pay their astronomical prices, so they'll have to lower it so that people will come back.
With insurance it's like handing somebody a credit card and saying 'Go wild.'
And then people get angry when the insurance company asks for the individual to help them pay for the service they receive.
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