MechWarrior Living Legends releases final update – forcibly shut down by MechWarrior rights holders - Polidicks

Well I'm glad that I didn't spend any money on MWO I guess. I needed some extra hard drive space anyways. Don't have crysis, but this was a dick move.

[QUOTE=Mechwarrior;39241709]Well, we were thinking about starting a kickstarter for buying a license.. but it'd cost about 1mil to get it.[/QUOTE] Lots of kickstarters have gotten over a million in pledge money, don't sell yourself short.

So, this was stickied on the MWO forums. [QUOTE][B]Russ Bullock said:[/B] Hey Everyone, I know you haven't seen much of me lately, was pretty busy with the holiday season and a new baby in the family. I hope you will see more of me on the forums and in game soon. Here is what I know. Did we send a cease and desist letter? no we did not. At GDC 2012 I met with the mod leadership which of course happens to work at Crytek so we see each other pretty much every trade show, great guy. At this GDC in casual unscripted conversation I asked him "why are we splitting the community at this point?" We both realized that the MWLL community was small and it really wasn't competing with MWO but still each time a feature was added to MWLL that was in MWO it felt as though we were doubling up effort to restore this great brand. I expressed that we were not trying to shut anyone down but asked him how we might meld the two communities better and even look to possibly hire on any great talent what was in that project. ( Hey MWLL guys send in those resumes ) For a long time the IP was in the wind and MWLL is one of those games that really kept MW on peoples minds so the project and the individuals have our up most respect. We discussed this topic for a little while but again it was friendly and there was no threats of shutting the mod down just more of a sense of "Why are we doubling up efforts here?". After the show he contacted me expressing that they really wanted to finish what they started with MWLL and had a set of features that they would like to get done and asked if that was okay with PGI. They presented a very professional plan on the remaining work they wanted to complete and stated after that it would be time to stop production on MWLL. I thanked them for the plan and said that it all sounded great. Now today's news comes and I can only assume that this last patch represents the final features from that presentation they gave me. I will reach out to my MWLL contact and confirm that this is true and have a conversation, if there are any updates we will let you know. Again there was no combative relationship between MWO and MWLL, nor was there a cease and desist letter given. Thanks.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/91464-russs-answer-on-the-mwll-situation/"]SOURCE[/URL] Just leaving that there since it's related. [B]OH FUCKING NINJA[/B]

[QUOTE]We discussed this topic for a little while but again it was friendly and there was no threats of shutting the mod down just more of a sense of "Why are we doubling up efforts here?". After the show he contacted me expressing that they really wanted to finish what they started with MWLL and had a set of features that they would like to get done and asked if that was okay with PGI. They presented a very professional plan on the remaining work they wanted to complete and stated after that it would be time to stop production on MWLL. I thanked them for the plan and said that it all sounded great.[/QUOTE] This is such utter bullshit on their part that its sickening. This kind of crap isn't appreciated MWO PR asshole Also i like how even just the last patch for MWLL adds more content than the sum total of MWO patches

They should sue them even if they hold the copyright.

[QUOTE=DrugUnit;39244434]They should sue them even if they hold the copyright.[/QUOTE] And do what, waste their own money for internet drama?

I am never buying a Mech-Warrior game again, fucking bullshit...

[QUOTE=Shadow Core;39244673]I am never buying a Mech-Warrior game again, fucking bullshit...[/QUOTE] Its not mechwarrior you need to worry about, its anything from IGP and piraniah games, which means MWO. If a true mechwarrior 5 comes out from a real studio that isnt complete garbage i'd be all over that. I mean really, a studio that is out-competed by a free fucking mod in quality, amount of content, and basically everything is just pathetic.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;39244702]Its not mechwarrior you need to worry about, its anything from IGP and piraniah games, which means MWO. If a true mechwarrior 5 comes out from a real studio that isnt complete garbage i'd be all over that. I mean really, a studio that is out-competed by a free fucking mod in quality, amount of content, and basically everything is just pathetic.[/QUOTE] Mechwarrior 5 became mechwarrior online. GJ killing one of the last hopes for battletech rights holders.

[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;39244734]Mechwarrior 5 became mechwarrior online. GJ killing one of the last hopes for battletech rights holders.[/QUOTE] isnt impossible that a MW5 game could still be made somewhere down the line after MWO dies.

If it's not being sold then they shouldn't be allowed to do this. [editline]16th January 2013[/editline] Also they should just rename it.

[QUOTE=Mechwarrior;39241709]Well, we were thinking about starting a kickstarter for buying a license.. but it'd cost about 1mil to get it.[/QUOTE] Do it! 1 Mil is hard to get for silly indie games that come from nobodies with original ideas. You guys are a group of talented developers who already have a REALLY good product (The best Mechwarrior game ever created) and a nice big community behind you. You guys got fucked by big corporations, I think it's time you fucked them back. I'd be shocked if you DIDN'T reach 1 million. And really, what do you have to lose?

[QUOTE=Vintage Thatguy;39241703]Just literally four hours before this fucking thread someone told me to try MWLL out[/QUOTE] Now is the best time to play MWLL though - it has so much new content and new stuff to play with.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;39245078]Do it! 1 Mil is hard to get for silly indie games that come from nobodies with original ideas. You guys are a group of talented developers who already have a REALLY good product (The best Mechwarrior game ever created) and a nice big community behind you. You guys got fucked by big corporations, I think it's time you fucked them back. I'd be shocked if you DIDN'T reach 1 million. And really, what do you have to lose?[/QUOTE] I don't know who that guy is but there's never been plans to do a kickstarter especially since the people actually in charge of the mod legally has -zero- interest in pursuing the matter, seeing as they both now work for CryTek and are working for the liscense department for CE3 - the thing that MWO runs on. It would be a huge legal headache for them to try and even touch that. And buying a liscense to use MW IP is not even close to 1 million. We'd also have to buy the engine (which is expensive and also about 1 million), pretty much have to redo 60% of the mod (since the entire mod is based off the crysis wars code base and assets, which we would no longer be able to use), and all this with a group of volunteers, all with other jobs, some of them actually working for CryTek and other game devs, and one or two are now working at MWO This is assuming they'd even approve a 2nd commercial liscense being used at the same time to basically "compete" with their existing commercial liscense they've leased. Nobody who owns an IP would ever agree to do that.

[QUOTE=KorJax;39245310]I don't know who that guy is but there's never been plans to do a kickstarter especially since the people actually in charge of the mod legally has -zero- interest in pursuing the matter, seeing as they both now work for CryTek and are working for the liscense department for CE3 - the thing that MWO runs on. It would be a huge legal headache for them to try and even touch that. And buying a liscense to use MW IP is not even close to 1 million. We'd also have to buy the engine (which is expensive and also about 1 million), pretty much have to redo 60% of the mod (since the entire mod is based off the crysis wars code base and assets, which we would no longer be able to use), and all this with a group of volunteers, all with other jobs, some of them actually working for CryTek and other game devs, and one or two are now working at MWO This is assuming they'd even approve a 2nd commercial liscense being used at the same time to basically "compete" with their existing commercial liscense they've leased. Nobody who owns an IP would ever agree to do that.[/QUOTE] The idea is, you launch a kickstarter for a completely new game that uses all the ideas with none of the IP. You can't copyright ideas. Your guys will all be getting paid well. And if this mod has the community support I think it does, you guys could probably go on to found your own game studio and live the fucking dream man. You don't have to even have anything out there to even get money. Everyone knows who you guys are. You can still ride on the steam of MWLL.

I remember the first public release of this when it came out, horribly would crash in 15 minutes but was still fun seeing all the servers were pretty much overloaded, and the lads at TLL(not dev! clan) were pretty awesome(San ftw). Though it got more stable throughout the year it was a pretty rad mod, rather enjoyed the BA aspect of it which they did rather well.

Edit: I read more on this page. Much more interesting than I orignally suspected

[QUOTE=Mechwarrior;39241709]Well, we were thinking about starting a kickstarter for buying a license.. but it'd cost about 1mil to get it.[/QUOTE] Just make a new game guys, if it's "spiritually inspired" you'll have the fans following your way. They don't own Mech Robots, they own the IP name Mech Warrior. Hawken is basically Mech Warrior isn't it? It just doesn't trip on the IP name. You sue for anything these days aslong as you have money and power and evil running through your veins but it makes a lot easier to be sued if you outright use IP names. In the end it's totally wrong, what you're doing is free/non commercial and totally not harming anyone at all.

You have done a lot of work on the project, why not go under another defunct franchise like Starsiege? Or you can do your own.

Such a shame. MWLL is an absolutely incredible mod and deserves just as much praise as it gets. This patch actually adds and fixes a lot with the game so for anyone who currently plays MWO, played the older Mechwarrior titles, or hasn't even heard of Mechwarrior I recommend getting a copy of Crysis Warhead and getting this mod. Warhead goes on sale for $5 every couple of months on Steam or Amazon, or you can just pick it up with Crysis 1 for $20 and get two decent shooters and the best Mechwarrior game in years.

MWO as a game isn't that bad. Can't really comment on their legal practices, I don't really agree with it but not like I can do anything about it. I don't know where you guys are pulling the P2W from the game isn't P2W at all. Game still needs work and polish though.

[QUOTE=Aman VII;39249286]MWO as a game isn't that bad. Can't really comment on their legal practices, I don't really agree with it but not like I can do anything about it. I don't know where you guys are pulling the P2W from the game isn't P2W at all. Game still needs work and polish though.[/QUOTE] If you've never played MWLL then yeah, i guess MWO isnt that bad. Fact is, the MWO devs took many mechanics from MWLL, and those that didnt, suck. Comparatively, MWO is ages behind MWLL in every way.

Soooo what's stopping the mod folk from dropping the MW brand, changing a few designs and build up your own IP? Too much work? Or still legally questionable?

[QUOTE=Clavus;39252843]Soooo what's stopping the mod folk from dropping the MW brand, changing a few designs and build up your own IP? Too much work? Or still legally questionable?[/QUOTE] it would take tons of work to remake p. much all the models and assets

[QUOTE=Clavus;39252843]Soooo what's stopping the mod folk from dropping the MW brand, changing a few designs and build up your own IP? Too much work? Or still legally questionable?[/QUOTE] Far too much work for basically every aspect, all the art, sound, game modes, everything really would have to be both completely remade and differentiated enough which probably isnt even possible as its a mechwarrior game. You're thinking of an ordinary mod where only a little bit of art would need changing, MWLL is not your ordinary mod, it has more content than the average game, and of course, MWO. So content rich MWO had to shut it down because it was out competing it in quality.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;39252620]If you've never played MWLL then yeah, i guess MWO isnt that bad. Fact is, the MWO devs took many mechanics from MWLL, and those that didnt, suck. Comparatively, MWO is ages behind MWLL in every way.[/QUOTE]I dunno, the two reticules are pretty cool.

[QUOTE=Squeegy Mackoy;39253172]I dunno, the two reticules are pretty cool.[/QUOTE] But with untelegraphed dispersion lag and terrible hit detection it's imposible to actually hit anything. I like MWLL's new Crosshair, it's a nice mix between the classic static aiming system and free aim from MW3.

Lesson learned. When it comes to releasing any mod even remotely based on any official universe, always take full measure that it does not have any copyrighted content, including names, from that actual universe, unless there is some type of concrete drop dead guarantee of it never being taken down. As it has been suggested before in this thread, they should just re-skin, re-name, and re-shove everything, and then release it as a different game, the official franchise holders would not be able to do jack shit about it. Not to say that it could be done in under five minutes, but it is still significantly better than having it being shot down from greed and jealousy.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;39253312]Lesson learned. When it comes to releasing any mod even remotely based on any official universe, always take full measure that it does not have any copyrighted content, including names, from that actual universe, unless there is some type of concrete drop dead guarantee of it never being taken down. As it has been suggested before in this thread, they should just re-skin, re-name, and re-shove everything, and then release it as a different game, the official franchise holders would not be able to do jack shit about it. Not to say that it could be done in under five minutes, but it is still significantly better than having it being shot down from greed and jealousy.[/QUOTE] I wish people would stop saying MWLL was taken down because it wasn't Also MWLL is different from most mods, becuase we actually got a non-commercial liscense to the IP of Mechwarrior. Meaning, we were LEGALLY given permission by microsoft to use the IP. Which is why we were able to release the first beta in 2009 without anyone caring, and why we were able to get so much done and added to the project over the years since then. The issue is the fact that the MW IP was starting to get used again by another company who had a commercial liscense. If you own an IP, the commercial one will always trump the already existing non-commercial one. If there is even a hint of competition between a non-comercial liscense using your IP and the commercial one, guess which one gets the boot? Everyone on the team knew that eventually the IP would likely be used again and that we might have to stop. It's good that we developed the mod in the way we did, even if we never reached our ideal "1.0" status, because otherwise we wouldn't have been able to keep the servers running, the community alive, etc and the founders of the mod would have likely had to deal with an expensive and stressful legal experience. But this didn't happen. It was a peaceful end, and the mod is still able to keep going (as long as people still play it), even if the end was pre-mature and not ideal.

[QUOTE=genkaz92;39253312]Lesson learned. When it comes to releasing any mod even remotely based on any official universe, always take full measure that it does not have any copyrighted content, including names, from that actual universe, unless there is some type of concrete drop dead guarantee of it never being taken down. [/QUOTE] MechWarrior Living Legends had [B]legal permission by Microsoft, the owners of the IP, to make MWLL[/B]