Gang rape 'live-streamed on Facebook' in Sweden - Polidicks

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51710175]No because putting somebody in jail is a punishment. Not letting somebody into your country isn't a punishment.[/QUOTE] King Tiger, how about we deny all men entrance to Sweden, then? Not just immigration, but also travel, because people can also rape even if they don't live in the country of course.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51710180]Preventing any male from entering the country then?[/QUOTE] That would probably be a reasonable policy for Sweden. If they simply kept all males from immigrating to their country then they would have far less problems. I'm just going to restate the question I asked earlier because, interestingly, I didn't get any answers last time. [QUOTE=King Tiger;51710088]Yes or no: keeping all muslims from coming into Sweden would keep the rape rate lower?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Stolons;51710073]Does Sweden really hide crimes by migrants or is it just a conspiracy theory?[/QUOTE] Turns out this whole code 291 business is actually not even happening anymore, that was during something called "Special Operation Alma", where the police was deliberately analyzing crimes within asylum accommodations or perpetrated by refugees. It doesn't include ALL crimes perpetrated by foreign people, that's completely false, and masking the identity of potential perpetrators before a formal conviction takes place is perfectly routine, done exactly to prevent media frenzies and speculation which could potentially ruin the lives of innocents. During the period they were analyzing this stuff, reports filed under code 291 were around 1% of the total amount of incidents reported in the country. Turns out most crime in Sweden isn't actually caused by refugees. Shocking, I know. It also turns out, 2/3rds of the victims of said crimes were also refugees. As for rape, it's important to distinguish that under Swedish law, there are degrees of rape, it's not a catch all term for aggravated sexual assault like it is in the US, in fact the definition is so broad that you could be prosecuted for rape for having sex with a consenting partner if they were intoxicated. An overwhelming majority of said events were filed under the lowest category of "rape". [url=https://polisen.se/PageFiles/615116/Antal_handelserapporter_och_brottsanmalningar.pdf]Source is, of course, the police themselves.[/url] It is certainly funny how !LORD M! only likes mass media when it agrees with him.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51710148]This is completely true. Obviously it's not socially actionable. Keeping Muslims from immigrating to Sweden is completely doable. This is extremely basic, I don't know why I haven't gotten an answer from anybody yet.[/QUOTE] jailing every man on the planet would be a lot more "actionable" because at least then you could actually physically fucking verify the characteristic you're looking for

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51710188]Never said anything even close.[/QUOTE] -- [QUOTE=King Tiger;51709990]Muslim immigrants rape at a higher rate than native swedes?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=King Tiger;51710004]Muslims rape more than ethnic swedes, then its logical to exclude muslims.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=King Tiger;51710148]This is completely true. (in reference to jailing all men) Obviously it's not socially actionable.[/QUOTE] The only reason you didn't reference imprisoning Muslims in that third quote is because it wasn't "socially actionable." Though you still referred to it as being completely true as an analogy to Muslims.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51710202]King Tiger, how about we deny all men entrance to Sweden, then? Not just immigration, but also travel, because people can also rape even if they don't live in the country of course.[/QUOTE] How about a quota instead? 50% men 50% females? Sweden is all about gender quotas and equality anyways! Oh and a quota on how many can be let in aswell!

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51709955]I think you missed This is a non argument, utterly dumb to even say something like acusing me of never saying Swedes committing crimes. Get a grip. If someone comes here, says they need protection and asylum and then commit crimes like rapes or murders - then they need to be thrown the fuck out because they betrayed our trust. We cannot throw out our own citizens since they wouldn't have a place to go to, but an immigrant criminal can always go back to where they come from. Why should we take care of someone that come here and does things like this, just so they can get a light punishment compared to their homelands and then keep on doing it because they know they won't recieve grave punishments. Like this guy who raped a 12 year old Swedish girl and got 180 hours community service. He obliterated her life. [url]http://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/vasternorrland/valdtog-12-arig-flicka-2[/url] Don't you also think that people like this should get deported for their crimes? Discrimination is always unjustified. All that is needed is that all those committing crime gets deported.[/QUOTE] I think you missed how in your own OP your focus wasn't on the victim either [QUOTE=!LORD M!;51709557] Not much info yet [b]It will be interesting to know who the gang-rapists really are.[/b][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Triggered SJW;51710204]That would probably be a reasonable policy for Sweden. If they simply kept all males from immigrating to their country then they would have far less problems.[/QUOTE] The horseshoe theory in action, folks.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51710051]Do muslims rape more than ethnic swedes? If yes, then it is logical to keep them out if you want less rapes in Sweden.[/QUOTE] Why stop with them though? Why not also get rid of the Swedes and have 0% rape?

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51710152]You're not the right person to call others full of shit, I provided evidence for all my claims while you have not.[/QUOTE] No you haven't. Please answer post #21

I don't think anyone should be denied entry to a country based on race or religion, but i do think that there should be some sort of investigation to see if there is indeed a discrepancy in crime rates between middle eastern/north african immigrants and other immigrants/ethnic swedes, as there is no denying that these areas have vastly differing cultures which could have impact on the values of the individual. this information should not be used for discrimination purposes, but to better understand how to solve the issue should one exist. perhaps better integration or education programs could be implemented to prevent such a thing, should said thing actually exist.

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51710152]You're not the right person to call others full of shit, I provided evidence for all my claims while you have not. Is this rape that was now committed propaganda? Yes we don't know who the perpetrators are, never said I did but I said it would be interesting to know if it was yet another code 291. Here is a site that puts up convicted gangrape cases in Sweden as well as who and from where the rapists are. All data (2011 to end of 2015) is available to the public since it comes from the courts, they have just compiled it but still got the source documents from the Swedish courts. [url]http://www.gangrapesweden.com/rapistspercountry.php[/url] In brief: Number of non-Swedes in gang rape case: 164 Number Swedes in gang rape case: 105 Percentage of non-Swedes: 61% About 20% of Sweden's population are non-Swedes and then are over-represented by a factor of 6.2 [url]http://www.systranet.com/turl/?systrangui=WebUI&systranuid=aHR0cC13d3cuZ2FuZ3JhcGVzd2VkZW4uY29tL2ludmFuZHJhcmV2YWxkdGFrdC5waHAvc3ZfZW4=&systranbanner=1[/url] And yes they also have Swedes as part of the statistics.[/QUOTE] From the site itself(that is by the way missing any index and could therefore also be "here is a site from the internet" [quote]NON SWEDISH means that the person most likely is not Swedish based on a name analysis, but the person may have Swedish citizenship. The person may also be born in Sweden. The judgment does not state the citizenship in many cases and therefore a name analysis is used instead.[/quote]

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51709650]So yes, I am VERY interested to know if this is YET another code 291.[/QUOTE] So he's right tho.

[QUOTE=Trim;51710230]No you haven't. Please answer post #21[/QUOTE] The thing is, you are explaining away the covering up of the case, what I was talking about in this was not that it hadn't happened before - I was talking about how it was ACTIVELY covered up by a politicized police force in order to as they said "not play people in the hands of SD" just because it was committed by immigrants and refugees. THAT is what I was talking about and you are trying to divert attention from it. I don't have a second source from the Finnish Ministry of Justice, it is very hard to google that when you are not speaking the language. Oh and I want you and all the rest to answer the one question you never EVER answer or even touch but dance around: If someone immigrates here, says they need protection and asylum and then commit crimes like robbery, assault, rape or murder - should they be allowed to stay or be thrown out? If they should stay, why?

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51710244]I don't think anyone should be denied entry to a country based on race or religion, but i do think that there should be some sort of investigation to see if there is indeed a discrepancy in crime rates between middle eastern/north african immigrants and other immigrants/ethnic swedes, as there is no denying that these areas have vastly differing cultures which could have impact on the values of the individual. this information should not be used for discrimination purposes, but to better understand how to solve the issue should one exist. perhaps better integration or education programs could be implemented to prevent such a thing, should said thing actually exist.[/QUOTE] Nobody is denying that immigrants live under tougher socioeconomic circumstances. But deportation is certainly not the answer just like stronger punishment for crimes(another thing that conservative right wingers often call for by the way) does not help battle crimes. The solution to problems is not simply pushing them away.

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51710260]The thing is, you are explaining away the covering up of the case, what I was talking about in this was not that it hadn't happened before - I was talking about how it was ACTIVELY covered up by a politicized police force in order to as they said "not play people in the hands of SD" just because it was committed by immigrants and refugees. THAT is what I was talking about and you are trying to divert attention from it. I don't have a second source from the Finnish Ministry of Justice, it is very hard to google that when you are not speaking the language. Oh and I want you and all the rest to answer the one question you never EVER answer or even touch: If someone immigrates here, says they need protection and asylum and then commit crimes like robbery, assault, rape or murder - should they be allowed to stay or be thrown out? If they should stay, why?[/QUOTE] Immigration isn't a right, it's a privilege. If someone immigrates to any country and requests protection and asylum then begins murdering, raping, w.e. then there should be an expectation that there's a high probability they will be deported.

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51710152]You're not the right person to call others full of shit, I provided evidence for all my claims while you have not. Is this rape that was now committed propaganda? Yes we don't know who the perpetrators are, never said I did but I said it would be interesting to know if it was yet another code 291. Here is a site that puts up convicted gangrape cases in Sweden as well as who and from where the rapists are. All data (2011 to end of 2015) is available to the public since it comes from the courts, they have just compiled it but still got the source documents from the Swedish courts. [url]http://www.gangrapesweden.com/rapistspercountry.php[/url] In brief: Number of non-Swedes in gang rape case: 164 Number Swedes in gang rape case: 105 Percentage of non-Swedes: 61% About 20% of Sweden's population are non-Swedes and then are over-represented by a factor of 6.2 [url]http://www.systranet.com/turl/?systrangui=WebUI&systranuid=aHR0cC13d3cuZ2FuZ3JhcGVzd2VkZW4uY29tL2ludmFuZHJhcmV2YWxkdGFrdC5waHAvc3ZfZW4=&systranbanner=1[/url] And yes they also have Swedes as part of the statistics.[/QUOTE] I just wanna comment on how awful this source is. It says there's 66 perpetrators who are "icke Svensk", non-Swedish, but the way this is estimated is merely through the name, through some so called name analysis. It even states how those deemed "non Swedish" could be born in Sweden, making them, you know, Swedish; they just don't have a Swedish name.

Kicking out immigrants who commit serious crimes is entirely reasonable, kicking out/denying entry altogether to anyone who happens to be brown is really wrong and unironically proposing this as a solution is incredibly fucked up

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51710260]The thing is, you are explaining away the covering up of the case, what I was talking about in this was not that it hadn't happened before - I was talking about how it was ACTIVELY covered up by a politicized police force in order to as they said "not play people in the hands of SD" just because it was committed by immigrants and refugees. THAT is what I was talking about and you are trying to divert attention from it. I don't have a second source from the Finnish Ministry of Justice, it is very hard to google that when you are not speaking the language. Oh and I want you and all the rest to answer the one question you never EVER answer or even touch: If someone immigrates here, says they need protection and asylum and then commit crimes like robbery, assault, rape or murder - should they be allowed to stay or be thrown out? If they should stay, why?[/QUOTE] You saying [quote]This is exactly what happened with the "We are Stockholm" festival, where tons of refugees were molesting and sexually harrassing children, none of the perpetrators were Swedes.[/quote] was "what I was talking about in this was not that it hadn't happened before - I was talking about how it was ACTIVELY covered up by a politicized police force" ?????? Correct me if I am wrong but to me it looks that now that someone took the two clicks to get information about that " tons of refugees were molesting and sexually harrassing children" and actually showed that the problem is far more complicated you are weazeling and backpeddalling your way out. Look guys, THIS is what I meant! Also you still haven't provided any source that is not by a completely anoymous dude who doesn't even show in the WHOIS.

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51710260] Oh and I want you and all the rest to answer the one question you never EVER answer or even touch: If someone immigrates here, says they need protection and asylum and then commit crimes like robbery, assault, rape or murder - should they be allowed to stay or be thrown out? If they should stay, why?[/QUOTE] literally nobody here has a problem with kicking them out. the issue is that certain people here seem to think it's okay to preemptively judge someone and automatically assume that they must be a rapist because there is a chance that they might a muslim

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51710204]That would probably be a reasonable policy for Sweden. If they simply kept all males from immigrating to their country then they would have far less problems. I'm just going to restate the question I asked earlier because, interestingly, I didn't get any answers last time.[/QUOTE] To answer yes to your question in a way that makes sense to me; if you barred immigrants that hail from countries that have an actual rape culture, then yes rape rates would go down. Barring muslims purely for their faith makes a lot less sense.

[QUOTE=Trim;51710294]You saying was "what I was talking about in this was not that it hadn't happened before - I was talking about how it was ACTIVELY covered up by a politicized police force" ?????? Correct me if I am wrong but to me it looks that now that someone took the two clicks to get information about that " tons of refugees were molesting and sexually harrassing children" and actually showed that the problem is far more complicated you are weazeling and backpeddalling your way out. Look guys, THIS is what I meant![/QUOTE] Well, none of the perpetrators were Swedish 2015. How is that weaseling out?

[QUOTE=kr1f333;51710297]literally nobody here has a problem with kicking them out. the issue is that certain people here seem to think it's okay to preemptively judge someone and automatically assume that they must be a rapist because there is a certain that they might a muslim[/QUOTE] It's two separate arguments though. Preemptively judging an immigrant is bad, but not kicking them out after they've committed a crime really isn't.

[QUOTE=wewt!;51710298]To answer yes to your question in a way that makes sense to me; if you barred immigrants that hail from countries that have an actual rape culture, then yes rape rates would go down. Barring muslims purely for their faith makes a lot less sense.[/QUOTE] Thank you for answering. Do you not think that Muslim countries have a "rape culture"?

[QUOTE=!LORD M!;51710302]Well, none of the perpetrators were Swedish 2015. How is that weaseling out?[/QUOTE] And you know that from where? And the problem existing since 2000, since the beginning of the festival also doesn't play a role? Where is the connection to 2015? Did the refugees just take over after 14 years of non-refugees making problems? Do you not realize how awful and constructed your initial post looks in the wake of the additional info?

[QUOTE=wewt!;51710307]It's two separate arguments though. Preemptively judging an immigrant is bad, but not kicking them out after they've committed a crime really isn't.[/QUOTE] The thing is that this discrimination is actually so broad it includes people who are born in Sweden from immigrant families, who shouldn't be kicked out to anywhere, because according to the law, they're Swedish, and that's the way it should be.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51709922]So discrimination is unjustified even at the expense of increased rape and other crimes. OK[/QUOTE] Most crimes are generally fuelled by socio-economic reasons and not because of someones ethnic background. Black people in America commit more crimes on average than any other ethnic demographic. 40% of people currently incarcarated in the US are black, yet black people only account for 13% of the population. So using your logic people in the US should start discriminating against black people, because they commit more crimes than any other group of people, instead of trying to tackle the socio-economic issues they're facing. Europe are facing similair issues. Yeah, immigrants commit more crimes on average than the native population. Is this surprising? No. Instead of sweeping it under the rug or attacking people who call these issues out as racists, maybe we should identify the issues and try to solve them.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51710309]Thank you for answering. Do you not think that Muslim countries have a "rape culture"?[/QUOTE] Certain muslim countries (or countries with a large muslim population) do, but since it is such a large religion, not all of them. Because of that, it makes less sense. Sure, you'd effectively lower the rape rates since you are barring all muslims, therefore also the muslim countries with rape culture, but you're also barring the ones who don't.

[QUOTE=Trim;51710318]And you know that from where? And the problem existing since 2000, since the beginning of the festival also doesn't play a role? Where is the connection to 2015? Did the refugees just take over after 14 years of non-refugees making problems? Do you not realize how awful and constructed your initial post looks in the wake of the additional info?[/QUOTE] The Police. You could use google you know and I wouldn't need to spoonfeed you. [url]https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnyheteridag.se%2Fpolisens-interna-dokument-samtliga-sexforgripare-av-utlandsk-harkomst-pa-we-are-stockholm%2F[/url] Oh and I like how none of the usual suspects have touched my question, clearly shows their agenda so far: [quote]Oh and I want you and all the rest to answer the one question you never EVER answer or even touch but dance around: If someone immigrates here, says they need protection and asylum and then commit crimes like robbery, assault, rape or murder - should they be allowed to stay or be thrown out? If they should stay, why?[/quote]

[QUOTE=Big Bang;51710321]The thing is that this discrimination is actually so broad it includes people who are born in Sweden from immigrant families, who shouldn't be kicked out to anywhere, because according to the law, they're Swedish, and that's the way it should be.[/QUOTE] If they're already citizens of the country, then they should go to its prison. But if they are there on a temporary visa, worker visa or asylum visa, it should be revoked.