[QUOTE=Tobylol;49300598]Interesting read, although honestly living in an oppressive regime and wanting to find a better life in a more fair society is a totally justified reason, regardless if your life is at stake or not.[/QUOTE]
I love how the goalposts on what is acceptable and what is not have moved from "they're miserable refugees fleeing certain death" to "eh, they can live a better life here I guess."
I think this is a perfectly valid reason to want to leave your country.
The shitty thing is:
1. It is hard to deal with when a lot of people at the same time decide to do this to a specific region. It would be a very similar situation if the US started mass-migrating to Canada if Canada hypothetically was vastly superior to live in vs the US.
2. A lot of people seem to be convinced of the idea that these people are driven out of their country by war (and are making policy decisions based on this) when the reality is a lot of them simply are bandwagon migrating.
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300878]Was Syria a bad place to live in before the civil war? Can you show me one successful Middle Eastern democracy? They always end up killing each other when they try to achieve that or we try to import them that. Western democracy seems to be incompatible with them.[/QUOTE]
Syria was an extremely stable and economically sound country like Libya. Those dictators were awful but they kept back the backwards religious idiots and had sound economic policy.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;49301278]That's not a loaded headline.[/QUOTE]
That's what the guy is saying though. It's a quote.
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;49301487]That's what the guy is saying though. It's a quote.[/QUOTE]
...taken out of context.
[QUOTE=Apache249;49301502]...taken out of context.[/QUOTE]
He states that he thinks most refugees flee for the same reason as he does. It's not that far from context.
Also:
[QUOTE]
"Why now?"
"In the summer we have seen on the internet that Germany people studied who want to live there. We were invited by you to come here. And it was said that the state would take care of us and we would find a working. But I can not find any. "
[/QUOTE]
More evidence that it was Merkel's fault the refugee crisis got out of control last Summer. Why else would they all want to go to Germany?
[QUOTE=Doom64hunter;49301545]More evidence that it was Merkel's fault the refugee crisis got out of control last Summer. Why else would they all want to go to Germany?[/QUOTE]
idk maybe because it's one of the few economic powerhouses in the EU after the fucking massive recession devastated a decent number of EU countries? leaving it as one of the few countries that genuinely has the resources to handle the problem somewhat effectively?
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300819]Of course there will be casualties, lots and lots of casualties. The question is: are they willing to sacrifice their life for the greater good?
And before anyone asks, then yes, I am. I'm trained in warfare, since my country also has a conscription based army and I'm also a member of the defense league, from where i have asked for a permission to keep an assault rifle in my home. Which I do. You wouldn't see a massive influx of military aged men into Western Europe in case of a conflict in here. Such mindset is clearly lacking in Western Europe.[/QUOTE]
"It is your responsibility to go die for a government that massacres civilian populations with chemical weapons. Otherwise, you can join ISIS, a terrorist organization reviled the world over who also massacres civilian populations for being 'apostates.' Either way, you're probably going to die for a cause you don't believe in."
There is no greater good here. You are incredibly naive. Forced military service is a horrifying enough concept when the government in question [I]isn't[/I] completely tyrannical.
[editline]12th December 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;49300827]I dunno man, I would not want to give my life for a state, even more so when it is a state that has used chemicals on people. That shit is for idiots who have a death wish.
I don't blame them for wanting to flee if they would have been conscripted. I would do the same. However I do not like how they seemed to think that they would be able to find alot of work in Europe.[/QUOTE]
Why is that a bad thing?
It's okay that they fled to avoid being conscripted into a tyrannical regime, but the fact that they hoped they would be able to make a decent life for themselves is just over the line? Of course they were hoping they could find work. Who [I]wouldn't[/I] hope to be able to find work? It's a completely normal and human thing. I'd be more concerned about people who [I]didn't[/I] want to work. Those are the folks who represent an actual potential drain of resources.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49301457]Syria was an extremely stable and economically sound country like Libya. Those dictators were awful but they kept back the backwards religious idiots and had sound economic policy.[/QUOTE]
Ya until the dictator started dropping bombs on the civilians that he didn't like sparking off a massive clusterfuck of a civil war. That's totally a sound economic policy
[QUOTE=KorJax;49301418]I think this is a perfectly valid reason to want to leave your country.
The shitty thing is:
1. It is hard to deal with when a lot of people at the same time decide to do this to a specific region. It would be a very similar situation if the US started mass-migrating to Canada if Canada hypothetically was vastly superior to live in vs the US.
2. A lot of people seem to be convinced of the idea that these people are driven out of their country by war (and are making policy decisions based on this) when the reality is a lot of them simply are bandwagon migrating.[/QUOTE]
i think if they want to immigrate they should go through the proper channels like everyone else instead of abusing the asylum system
you just know the same people saying refugees are immigrants are the same people plundering photography of destroyed syria for their own bellophile perusal
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;49301931]i think if they want to immigrate they should go through the proper channels like everyone else instead of abusing the asylum system[/QUOTE]
Difference being, not all of them know that. They don't have the luxury of watching the news or complaining on Facepunch, I imagine most of what they've heard is second-hand info from other refugees and human smugglers (who're trying to get a sale). All they've heard is that Germany is offering free food, housing & jobs to everybody because they're so prosperous - if we didn't know about the refugee crisis then most of us would take up that offer. That's probably why a lot of them are complaining about bad food and slow wifi. Those aren't the same people who're fleeing warzones, it's immigrants like this guy who were told & expected something completely different; and since a lot of them don't have full access to/don't care about media, they keep coming. It isn't entirely their fault imo which is why it's really annoying to see people say "i fucking hate muslims" and "send them back to fight assad??".
The best way to solve this is to keep existing refugees, and stop accepting new arrivals so that the people who [i]need[/i] safety and refuge will stay and the economic immigrants eventually give up and go home.
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49302214]you just know the same people saying refugees are immigrants are the same people plundering photigraphy of destroyed syria for their own bellophile perusal[/QUOTE]
It's truly amazing on what grave presumptions you are able to operate..
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49301608]"It is your responsibility to go die for a government that massacres civilian populations with chemical weapons. Otherwise, you can join ISIS, a terrorist organization reviled the world over who also massacres civilian populations for being 'apostates.' Either way, you're probably going to die for a cause you don't believe in."
There is no greater good here. You are incredibly naive. Forced military service is a horrifying enough concept when the government in question [I]isn't[/I] completely tyrannical.
[/QUOTE]
I think he's saying that it's their responsibility to [B]overthrow[/B] a government that massacres civilian populations with chemical weapons.
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300655]It's their responsibility to create a country they are happy with, however, they think that it's best to immigrate.[/QUOTE]
there's only so much you can do to improve your nation, and at one point you really have to ask yourself whether it's worth putting the greater good above your own life
hate to be cheap but what would you have done instead
[QUOTE=Kommodore;49302214]you just know the same people saying refugees are immigrants are the same people plundering photography of destroyed syria for their own bellophile perusal[/QUOTE]
Anybody that disagrees with you on the accepting of practically unrestricted mass migration loves to watch death and destruction? Thats a pretty strange thing to say.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;49302453]
The best way to solve this is to keep existing refugees, and stop accepting new arrivals so that the people who [i]need[/i] safety and refuge will stay and the economic immigrants eventually give up and go home.[/QUOTE]
Testing them or leaving them in limbo is just harsh.
I think the biggest issue with this immigration problem facing Europe is the fact that it's setting the attitude of things to come. With populations exploding in Sub-Saharan Africa and other developing parts of the world there is no end to the number of people who wouldn't mind living in Amsterdam, Paris or London and with the notion that all they have to do is show up and someone will take them in simply because they arrive is just going to create an immense problem as time goes on. With nearly 10 billion people by 2050 I think we're in for a tough time ahead considering the vast majority of that population growth is taking place in already some of the most unstable regions in the world.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;49315818]I think the biggest issue with this immigration problem facing Europe is the fact that it's setting the attitude of things to come. With populations exploding in Sub-Saharan Africa and other developing parts of the world there is no end to the number of people who wouldn't mind living in Amsterdam, Paris or London and with the notion that all they have to do is show up and someone will take them in simply because they arrive is just going to create an immense problem as time goes on. With nearly 10 billion people by 2050 I think we're in for a tough time ahead considering the vast majority of that population growth is taking place in already some of the most unstable regions in the world.[/QUOTE]
add in food shortages due to global warmimg and you're going to see the entire population of africa trying to get to europe while europe's resources deplete at an alarmimg rate trying to keep everyone fed
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;49315978]add in food shortages due to global warmimg and you're going to see the entire population of africa trying to get to europe while europe's resources deplete at an alarmimg rate trying to keep everyone fed[/QUOTE]
I hope it doesn't lead to a civil war or worse in the future. There's really no way Europe can sustain so many people long term while also keeping up the standards of human rights and living conditions.
[QUOTE=Ajacks;49315818]I think the biggest issue with this immigration problem facing Europe is the fact that it's setting the attitude of things to come. With populations exploding in Sub-Saharan Africa and other developing parts of the world there is no end to the number of people who wouldn't mind living in Amsterdam, Paris or London and with the notion that all they have to do is show up and someone will take them in simply because they arrive is just going to create an immense problem as time goes on. With nearly 10 billion people by 2050 I think we're in for a tough time ahead considering the vast majority of that population growth is taking place in already some of the most unstable regions in the world.[/QUOTE]
Problem is, everyone wants to go to the capital cities. Nobody wants to go the suburban areas because its too much of a inconvenience
Humans need to expand towns into cities or create new cities for the growing population
[QUOTE=HAWKS71;49300878]Was Syria a bad place to live in before the civil war? Can you show me one successful Middle Eastern democracy? They always end up killing each other when they try to achieve that or we try to import them that. Western democracy seems to be incompatible with them.[/QUOTE]
Democracy almost never works out well in the Middle East due to the way the borders were drawn up in ways that resulted in a ridiculous amount of ethnicities and religious sects in the same country.
And Syria was more or less a fine country to live in before the civil war provided you didn't say shit about Assad
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