Toddlers in America have accidentally shot one person a week in 2015 - Polidicks

[QUOTE=GunFox;48944144]Seven thousand people die here daily.[/QUOTE] It would be nice if that number was way smaller

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48945289]Gangs or not, homicidal lunatics get guns (usually) the same way gang members do.[/QUOTE] Stolen from legal owners right? Because that's one the main sources for "black market" firearms in the US. Legal ownership is an excellent gateway for the black market for firearms to exist, it provides a near unending supply for a specific kind of demand ensuring that the guns are cheap enough for a gang member to grab a hold of compared to more restricted countries.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48945707]Stolen from legal owners right? Because that's one the main sources for "black market" firearms in the US. Legal ownership is an excellent gateway for the black market for firearms to exist, it provides a near unending supply for a specific kind of demand ensuring that the guns are cheap enough for a gang member to grab a hold of compared to more restricted countries.[/QUOTE] So what are you intending we do then? Take guns away from people like me, who have nothing to do with violent crime?

[QUOTE=kurgan;48944962]as a point of comparison, Chicago, a city with some of the most restrictive gun laws in the USA, clocks about 8 murders per week.[/QUOTE] A cities gun regulations mean shit when you can get a gun nearby and just drive in.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48945726]So what are you intending we do then? Take guns away from people like me, who have nothing to do with violent crime?[/QUOTE] Might as well tbh. Watching you flip the fuck out about it gets increasingly funnier every time. People would assume we were talking about amputating a hand or something. Nobody has the one and only answer to this question. But we sure as shit aren't going to find it if you aren't able to open your mind to the idea of personal ownership being a risk to society and the actions that could be taken to mitigate that as much as reasonably possible. That's why we (attempt to at least) discuss this every time a shooting comes up. In the hopes that we can actually try and work out what would actually be effective.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48945726]So what are you intending we do then? Take guns away from people like me, who have nothing to do with violent crime?[/QUOTE] No. We make it tougher to the point where you won't want to own one. Or it will be so bastardized that it won't be worth owning. We would pretty much remove the firearms market and put those ~100k people in the industry out of a job and wait a hundred years for the massive supply of guns already in circulation to disappear. Then it would be fine and dandy. But shit at that point people will be 3D printing entire firearms and so we would need to start regulating guns again thus restarting this whole argument.

[QUOTE=SirKillsAlot;48945776]No. We make it tougher to the point where you won't want to own one. Or it will be so bastardized that it won't be worth owning.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=hexpunK;48945772]Might as well tbh. Watching you flip the fuck out about it gets increasingly funnier every time. People would assume we were talking about amputating a hand or something. Nobody has the one and only answer to this question. But we sure as shit aren't going to find it if you aren't able to open your mind to the idea of personal ownership being a risk to society and the actions that could be taken to mitigate that as much as reasonably possible. That's why we (attempt to at least) discuss this every time a shooting comes up. In the hopes that we can actually try and work out what would actually be effective.[/QUOTE] You guys realize that this won't work, right?

I thought all guns had a safety switch on them or do people not only leave their loaded guns on their coffee tables but also with the safeties off?

[QUOTE=Ishwoo;48945808]I thought all guns had a safety switch on them or do people not only leave their loaded guns on their coffee tables but also with the safeties off?[/QUOTE] Some are dumb enough to leave a round racked with the safety off.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48945799]You guys realize that this won't work, right?[/QUOTE] Sorry I was trying the whole sarcasm thing that seems to be in trend but I didn't edit it fast enough.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48945799]You guys realize that this won't work, right?[/QUOTE] What wont work? Talking it out like actual functional human beings and thinking about it rather than screeching about "my constitutional rights" or "but it's mine!!!!"? Sure it may be a right, but you can still talk about it without regressing to the mental state of a 2 year old about it. As I have to remind you and many other pro-gun people on here. We aren't going to actually be able to change your fucking laws, calm down and talk it out like the grown up you claim to be rather than getting stupendously defensive over literally nothing.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48945826]What wont work? Talking it out like actual functional human beings and thinking about it rather than screeching about "my constitutional rights" or "but it's mine!!!!"? Sure it may be a right, but you can still talk about it without regressing to the mental state of a 2 year old about it. As I have to remind you and many other pro-gun people on here. We aren't going to actually be able to change your fucking laws, calm down and talk it out like the grown up you claim to be rather than getting stupendously defensive over literally nothing.[/QUOTE] I would just love to see someone simply propose a solution that overcomes (for one) the logistical nightmare to collect 300-400 million guns while violating the 2nd and 4th amendments (4th amendment because the 2nd amendment "shall not be infringed" and would therefore lead to an illegal search and seizure).

[QUOTE=.Vel;48945301]I hate to be crass, but it seriously seems like the people who say stuff like this are retarded. Sure, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but seriously? Stand up against the NRA? Injuries that happen from guns and toddlers are from stupid people/terrible accidents. It's as if they'd blame an axe for killing someone, not the person. It's a horribly stupid argument.[/QUOTE] Funny thing is. On the subject of child safety and the NRA. The NRA constantly hammers it into people that you need to LOCK YOUR GUNS UP SO YOUR KIDS CAN'T GET THEM.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48945865]I would just love to see someone simply propose a solution that overcomes (for one) the logistical nightmare to collect 300-400 million guns while violating the 2nd and 4th amendments (4th amendment because the 2nd amendment "shall not be infringed" and would therefore lead to an illegal search and seizure).[/QUOTE] Sarcasm aside, I feel like the economic backlash from such a large industry being essentially forced to stop producing/selling their product would be immense. As far as I know, the civilian market is as important as government contracts (of which only the large corporations fulfill) and there are thousands of companies and mom-pa stores that would be shutdown if firearms were banned from civilian hands. This is besides the potential backlash from people who are devoted to their 2A rights who would then be protesting either peacefully or even violently to the confiscation of their firearms. In addition to this, shooting sports would take a serious blow if they are even still around depending on how the ban would work. Same thing for hunting. I don't even want to imagine the potential effects on organized crime. Surely we remember what happened during the Prohibition.

[QUOTE=Ishwoo;48945808]I thought all guns had a safety switch on them or do people not only leave their loaded guns on their coffee tables but also with the safeties off?[/QUOTE] Most firearms do. Some people are colossal dumbfucks though, and like to leave their weapons lying around on fire and with a round in the chamber. Even if it were on safe, a toddler could hypothetically switch it off. Fact of the matter is, if you habitually leave your weapons lying around, unsecured, you should not be allowed within 50 feet of a firearm. Ever.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;48943856]Really? Don't they teach georpahy at all?[/QUOTE] These days they feverishly defend the notion that ISIS is pouring in/will come from not only with the Syrian refugees (which is more plausible), but from the Mexican border as well. And the "is pouring in/will come from" depends on who you talk to and how tin-foil hat bonkers they are. And those people [B]own guns[/B]. [editline]20th October 2015[/editline] Just before this pro-gun/anti-gun bullshit gets out of hand (again): Wicked fuckers will do wicked shit, with or without your legislation. That is all.

Look, lets all be honest here. The real problem is that people are going out and starting families just because they gotta do something with the boners they get from their guns. What we really need is a way to fuck our guns.

[QUOTE=Mr.Moustachio;48946979]Look, lets all be honest here. The real problem is that people are going out and starting families just because they gotta do something with the boners they get from their guns. What we really need is a way to fuck our guns.[/QUOTE] That can be solved with a bigger gun really though.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48945289]Gangs or not, homicidal lunatics get guns (usually) the same way gang members do.[/QUOTE] Actually, almost all the time, they acquire the guns legally, passing background checks, or they kill the owner of the guns and steal them (like Lanza did). [editline]20th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr.Moustachio;48946979]Look, lets all be honest here. The real problem is that people are going out and starting families just because they gotta do something with the boners they get from their guns. What we really need is a way to fuck our guns.[/QUOTE] A guy on reddit submitted a ruling to the ATF on using the Sig pistol brace with a fleshlight mounted in it.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48945799]You guys realize that this won't work, right?[/QUOTE] see that is a very good example of a huge issue that annoys the hell out of me any time anybody [B][I]tries[/I][/B] to have a legitimate debate or tries to come up with sound ways of dealing with the problem that the United States undeniably has, there are always people with the attitude "you realize there is nothing that can be done, right? why bother trying?" and that is how shit goes downhill fast (not neccessarily saying you have that attitude, but it is something I see very often)

What a retarded way of pushing propaganda, when there's multiple killings by cops every day, now most of them probably have just reason for opening fire, some people don't understand how cops/sheriffs work in the US, many are based around family, many take action against those they don't like, using the badge as a way of getting access to whoever they want. I'm just gonna use Palm Beach County Sheriffs from Florida as an example, they let PBSO threaten people with guns, they let a man who got his NFA license revoked NOT ONLY keep selling fully automatic guns, they also disregard US law to the point where this man is working for them. (Federal crimes being ignored by guerrilla law enforcement) Look up Louis Rosenberg, sheriffs always disregard the law, plenty of enemies of them/their family get gunned down. That is the real issue, so if there is legislation protecting us from these people, I almost wouldn't have a problem with more gun control, the real statistics are there right in front of us all, US law enforcement kills the most people every day, with the history of corrupt police in the US, County sheriffs behaving like mafia soldiers, things get escalated easily between people and wrongful action gets taken, even by mistake, those officers get exemptions every time. A swat man shooting a sleeping toddler in the head and getting away with it is one main example. US propaganda sucks and takes advantage of all the citizens they've made retarded.

[QUOTE=.Vel;48945301]I hate to be crass, but it seriously seems like the people who say stuff like this are retarded. Sure, everyone's entitled to their own opinion, but seriously? Stand up against the NRA? Injuries that happen from guns and toddlers are from stupid people/terrible accidents. It's as if they'd blame an axe for killing someone, not the person. It's a horribly stupid argument.[/QUOTE] Bluntly speaking, it's a boogeyman like Planned Parenthood. [editline]20th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Govna;48945181]Which is thanks to gang activity. Most the murders in Chicago have nothing to do with conventional homicides (I mean one person deciding to get up one day and murder another person, usually someone they know intimately, for some reason or another). It's the same story here in Missouri with St. Louis, and we don't have restrictive gun laws at all. [editline]20th October 2015[/editline] Again, Baltimore and Detroit have gang problems. New Orleans I'm not familiar with; however, the state of Louisiana as a whole is one of the worst states in the Union for gun violence overall, and it's actually pretty permissive with its gun laws (which isn't surprising, considering, you know, it's fucking Louisiana-- in the Deep South United States).[/QUOTE] You're likely right about gang activity, homicides seem to be higher in metropolitan areas than rural areas. New Orleans, Louisiana is one of those places.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48945707]Stolen from legal owners right? Because that's one the main sources for "black market" firearms in the US.[/QUOTE] Actually, [url=http://www.scribd.com/doc/276724037/Preventive-Medicine-University-of-Chicago-gun-study-August-2015]a recent study in Chicago[/url] found that theft was one of the rarest sources of guns used to commit crimes; the most common source was from friends or family who give them the guns or are willing to make a straw purchase.

[QUOTE=BazzBerry;48947637]see that is a very good example of a huge issue that annoys the hell out of me any time anybody [B][I]tries[/I][/B] to have a legitimate debate or tries to come up with sound ways of dealing with the problem that the United States undeniably has, there are always people with the attitude "you realize there is nothing that can be done, right? why bother trying?" and that is how shit goes downhill fast (not neccessarily saying you have that attitude, but it is something I see very often)[/QUOTE] When hes replying to someone who hasn't earned a real response and says the guns should just be taken away because it would be funny, I can understand his point lol. And then he goes and says why a few posts later anyway. Gun owners don't have a mental block in place that stops them from thinking about this shit. I'm sure we have thought about it more than outsiders from other countries who mostly have no personal experience with the subject at all aside from reading sensationalized news articles that make America sound like a country where getting groceries involves blowing off someone's kneecaps.

[QUOTE=catbarf;48948355]Actually, [url=http://www.scribd.com/doc/276724037/Preventive-Medicine-University-of-Chicago-gun-study-August-2015]a recent study in Chicago[/url] found that theft was one of the rarest sources of guns used to commit crimes; the most common source was from friends or family who give them the guns or are willing to make a straw purchase.[/QUOTE] Well "giving" people guns without doing proper paperwork is also illegal.

[QUOTE=catbarf;48948355]Actually, [url=http://www.scribd.com/doc/276724037/Preventive-Medicine-University-of-Chicago-gun-study-August-2015]a recent study in Chicago[/url] found that theft was one of the rarest sources of guns used to commit crimes; the most common source was from friends or family who give them the guns or are willing to make a straw purchase.[/QUOTE] So legal purchases getting into the wrong hands, or people abusing the legal purchasing system to get around restrictions placed on people who have been deemed unfit to own a firearm? That still aligns with my point to be honest. Legal ownership of firearms is only going to fuel the black market for illegal purchases and allow easier access to them for people who really shouldn't have the fucking things ever.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48948451]So legal purchases getting into the wrong hands, or people abusing the legal purchasing system to get around restrictions placed on people who have been deemed unfit to own a firearm? That still aligns with my point to be honest. Legal ownership of firearms is only going to fuel the black market for illegal purchases and allow easier access to them for people who really shouldn't have the fucking things ever.[/QUOTE] It's illegal to hand someone a gun and say "here ya go dude" without the recipient filling out FFL paperwork and going through the process. We have these thousands of laws like this and people ignore them. Then, people say "derp derp we need gun control to stop this" when we have "gun control" and people still ignore it. Hence criminals ignoring laws. If you just willy nilly hand a gun to someone as a gift in 99% of the world, you're a criminal.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48948468]It's illegal to hand someone a gun and say "here ya go dude" without the recipient filling out FFL paperwork and going through the process. We have these thousands of laws like this and people ignore them. Then, people say "derp derp we need gun control to stop this" when we have "gun control" and people still ignore it. Hence criminals ignoring laws. If you just willy nilly hand a gun to someone as a gift in 99% of the world, you're a criminal.[/QUOTE] idk seems easier to buy a gun legally and have it stolen/ give it to someone without filling out the paperwork than it does to try and find a shady seller of firearms in a country where getting hold of them in the first place is exceedingly hard. Are you really going to deny that legal personal ownership is not a contributing factor to the heightened illegal use of firearms in the US? Because that's a completely asinine position to hold. A greater supply of something is going to make it more readily available and cheaper for people who want to do bad things with said something. Lowering the supply of said something is the endgame for various restrictions.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;48948384]When hes replying to someone who hasn't earned a real response and says the guns should just be taken away because it would be funny, I can understand his point lol. And then he goes and says why a few posts later anyway. Gun owners don't have a mental block in place that stops them from thinking about this shit. I'm sure we have thought about it more than outsiders from other countries who mostly have no personal experience with the subject at all aside from reading sensationalized news articles that make America sound like a country where getting groceries involves blowing off someone's kneecaps.[/QUOTE] I'm glad you posted this. Not that it affects mine or anyone else's argument in any way, I used to be anti-gun for a long while before sitting down and learning about the hobby and getting into it myself. I never had an interest in firearms and to be honest, I found my friends who shot guns annoying for talking about it. Much like I used to not care for RC planes and drones and find them a public hazard, having been introduced into the hobby and the great things that people can do with them (numerous sports, competition, and hunting for shooting, all the artistic potential for videos recorded from drones, etc). I've had the privilege of experiencing these things which were unfamiliar to me first hand and learned to appreciate them instead of viewing them from the outside. I realize the cost of having this freedom, but I don't think that it is in vain and I definitely don't think it is as evil as the media makes it out to be. It is the same reason that people own these 1,000HP turbo charged Corvettes or DJI Inspire quadcopters. People do dumb shit with anything that they can get their hands on. Guns can kill people, cars which are too much to handle can kill people, and people can land RC planes on the Whitehouse lawn causing a nationwide news sensation. All of these things are regulated, but none of them are banned. I wouldn't ban collapsible stocks the same reason I wouldn't ban turbochargers the same reason I wouldn't ban carbon fiber propellers, and I definitely wouldn't ban guns, sports cars, or quadcopters.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;48948510]idk seems easier to buy a gun legally and have it stolen/ give it to someone without filling out the paperwork than it does to try and find a shady seller of firearms in a country where getting hold of them in the first place is exceedingly hard. Are you really going to deny that legal personal ownership is not a contributing factor to the heightened use of firearms in the US? Because that's a completely asinine position to hold. A greater supply of something is going to make it more readily available and cheaper for people who want to do bad things with said something. Lowering the supply of said something is the endgame for various restrictions.[/QUOTE] Yes I am going to deny that. I secure my house and I live in a decent area. If you go out waving your guns making yourself a target for robbery of said guns, that's on you. Why should I have to pay oodles more money to buy guns when I have nothing to do with the bullshit crime wave happening in blue states in the US? I already own the big black scary guns and several handguns yet, Maryland passed "gun control" and now I have to be fingerprinted to purchase any more after the date the ban happened. That's another ~$200 or so. Those laws have literally done nothing at all in this state. And hey guess what, O'Malley pushed that and he has somewhere between 0%-3% approval ratings in his silly presidential polls. (See a connection to the shit hole crime ridden state and the idiot that led this?) He passed a rain tax FFS. [editline]20th October 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=SirKillsAlot;48948523]I'm glad you posted this. Not that it affects mine or anyone else's argument in any way, I used to be anti-gun for a long while before sitting down and learning about the hobby and getting into it myself. I never had an interest in firearms and to be honest, I found my friends who shot guns annoying for talking about it. Much like I used to not care for RC planes and drones and find them a public hazard, having been introduced into the hobby and the great things that people can do with them (numerous sports, competition, and hunting for shooting, all the artistic potential for videos recorded from drones, etc). I've had the privilege of experiencing these things which were unfamiliar to me first hand and learned to appreciate them instead of viewing them from the outside. I realize the cost of having this freedom, but I don't think that it is in vain and I definitely don't think it is as evil as the media makes it out to be. It is the same reason that people own these 1,000HP turbo charged Corvettes or DJI Inspire quadcopters. People do dumb shit with anything that they can get their hands on. Guns can kill people, cars which are too much to handle can kill people, and people can land RC planes on the Whitehouse lawn causing a nationwide news sensation. All of these things are regulated, but none of them are banned. I wouldn't ban collapsible stocks the same reason I wouldn't ban turbochargers the same reason I wouldn't ban carbon fiber propellers.[/QUOTE] At the end of the day, inanimate objects are inanimate objects. They're just objects. The person at the helm is to blame. Not the hunk of metal.