Toddlers in America have accidentally shot one person a week in 2015 - Polidicks

There is no crime wave. Crime has been on the decline for decades. Surprise.

[QUOTE=GunFox;48948717]There is no [B]crime wave[/B]. Crime has been on the decline for decades. Surprise.[/QUOTE] Depends on where you live.

So essentially 1 in a million toddlers will get their hands on a gun and shoot someone. honestly considering that there are about 40million children in the US and about 350million total people, those arenèt the worst numbers

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[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48948468]It's illegal to hand someone a gun and say "here ya go dude" without the recipient filling out FFL paperwork and going through the process. We have these thousands of laws like this and people ignore them. Then, people say "derp derp we need gun control to stop this" when we have "gun control" and people still ignore it. Hence criminals ignoring laws. If you just willy nilly hand a gun to someone as a gift in 99% of the world, you're a criminal.[/QUOTE] No, technically it's not on a federal level in the US. It's illegal for an FFL to just give someone a gun without filling out a 4473 or doing a NICS check, but in a lot of states its completely legal to sell someone your own personal firearm without a background check or paper work. Most states do require that you keep a record of sale, as well as doing everything possible to insure that the person buying it is legally able to own a firearm (by say getting a copy of their permit to purchase). Most states also can hold you criminally liable for actions taken with that firearm if record of sale and proof too the best of your knowledge that they are legally able is not provided. With that being said some states such as California requires you to do all private sales through an FFL.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;48949052]No, technically it's not on a federal level in the US. It's illegal for an FFL to just give someone a gun without filling out a 4473 or doing a NICS check, but in a lot of states its completely legal to sell someone your own personal firearm without a background check or paper work. Most states do require that you keep a record of sale, as well as doing everything possible to insure that the person buying it is legally able to own a firearm (by say getting a copy of their permit to purchase). Most states also can hold you criminally liable for actions taken with that firearm if record of sale and proof too the best of your knowledge that they are legally able is not provided. With that being said some states such as California requires you to do all private sales through an FFL.[/QUOTE] So I can sell my handgun or AR15 or my full auto weapon to someone without FFL paperwork? Yeah, okay. I think most areas would disagree.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48949067]So I can sell my handgun or AR15 or my full auto weapon to someone without FFL paperwork? Yeah, okay.[/QUOTE] Not a full auto, those are subject to NFA regulations which is a whole other ball game. Your handgun or AR-15 you could, providing that you do everything you can to cover your own ass since if the buyer commits a crime with it you might as well have been the one who pulled the trigger. Granted all of this is dependent on which state you live in.

[QUOTE=Grandzeit;48943487]There's also 58x as many people in America, with way too many other differences like laws, poverty, traditions etc.[/QUOTE] Even with a much higher population, the murder rate per capita is still way, way higher. Differences like laws and traditions are a bullshit excuse though tbh. You might as well just say they're morons who don't know any better. [sp]cause they are kek[/sp]

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48949067]So I can sell my handgun or AR15 or my full auto weapon to someone without FFL paperwork? Yeah, okay. I think most areas would disagree.[/QUOTE] Uh, dude, you totally can sell your handgun or AR15 without any FFL paperwork whatsoever. It's called private sale and it's legal in most of the country. Seriously, go to a gun show sometime. That's literally what the 'gun show loophole' is, if you're not an FFL holder you aren't legally obligated to do a 4473 or NICS check and can sell to whomever you want.

[QUOTE=Grandzeit;48943487]There's also 58x as many people in America, with way too many other differences like laws, poverty, traditions etc.[/QUOTE] Well per capita, etc.

[QUOTE=catbarf;48949118]Uh, dude, you totally can sell your handgun or AR15 without any FFL paperwork whatsoever. It's called private sale and it's legal in most of the country. Seriously, go to a gun show sometime. That's literally what the 'gun show loophole' is, if you're not an FFL holder you aren't legally obligated to do a 4473 or NICS check and can sell to whomever you want.[/QUOTE] I go to gun shows almost monthly. Sales are dependent on FFL paperwork.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48949152]I go to gun shows almost monthly. Sales are dependent on FFL paperwork.[/QUOTE] A lot of it depends on the shows. Most gun shows shy away from letting average joes get a table because they don't want to promote the whole "gun show loop hole" idea. I sell at shows and almost every table save the knife guys have FFL's. There's nothing to stop a guy coming into the show from selling is own gun at the show however.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;48949167]A lot of it depends on the shows. Most gun shows shy away from letting average joes get a table because they don't want to promote the whole "gun show loop hole" idea. I sell at shows and almost every table save the knife guys have FFL's. There's nothing to stop a guy coming into the show from selling is own gun at the show however.[/QUOTE] A lot of it depends on the laws in that state also.

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;48949152]I go to gun shows almost monthly. Sales are dependent on FFL paperwork.[/QUOTE] Then that's how it is for Maryland, but not for many states. In Ohio for instance, it's completely the opposite. I can walk into a gun show and pick up a gun no questions asked.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;48943820]"Hello, I'm itisjuly and I'm clueless about American gun culture" No, seriously, that IS why some people buy guns around here these days, they're worried ISIS is going to spill over into the US any day now. [/QUOTE] A very large portion of gun owners buy guns because they want to be Billy Badass the Rambo wannabe. They are literally hoping shit goes down so they can shoot a guy. Like many things in our culture, guns have become a status symbol. we don't give them the proper respect a weapon deserves. Instead, we treat them like a new car or a big TV. The biggest change Americans can make to fix many problems with gun violence is simply to acknowledge that these are dangerous weapons, but that won't happen. Also, it is quite telling that the majority of pro-firearm users in these debates are Americans. Maybe if we took the time to break out of our "America is different" bubble we can actual go live with the sane world. The big reason that gun culture hasn't changed in the states is because we give each other a personal echo chamber to rail against anything even remotely anti-gun. There is so much dick waxing between pro-gun activists that it prevents any real discussion on the topic. Instead, people just get ignored or boxed into oblivion whenever they bring a dissenting opinion.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;48949256]A very large portion of gun owners buy guns because they want to be Billy Badass the Rambo wannabe. They are literally hoping shit goes down so they can shoot a guy. Like many things in our culture, guns have become a status symbol. we don't give them the proper respect a weapon deserves. Instead, we treat them like a new car or a big TV. The biggest change Americans can make to fix many problems with gun violence is simply to acknowledge that these are dangerous weapons, but that won't happen. Also, it is quite telling that the majority of pro-firearm users in these debates are Americans. Maybe if we took the time to break out of our "America is different" bubble we can actual go live with the sane world. The big reason that gun culture hasn't changed in the states is because we give each other a personal echo chamber to rail against anything even remotely anti-gun. There is so much dick waxing between pro-gun activists that it prevents any real discussion on the topic. Instead, people just get ignored or boxed into oblivion whenever they bring a dissenting opinion.[/QUOTE] "The sane world" What do you even mean by this? Having or promoting guns makes you not sane? I'm all for stricter laws regarding guns and all but what was your point there

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;48949256]A very large portion of gun owners buy guns because they want to be Billy Badass the Rambo wannabe. They are literally hoping shit goes down so they can shoot a guy.[/QUOTE] You literally lost all credibility by starting off with something as ridiculous and blanket as this statement. Perhaps if you broke out of your bubble and learned more about the hobby then you wouldn't be just as deluded as you make gun owners out to be.

[QUOTE=SirKillsAlot;48949745]You literally lost all credibility[/QUOTE] A large portion of gun owners do in fact believe that and have fantasies of toppling a tyrannical American government with their firearms.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48950162]A large portion of gun owners do in fact believe that and have fantasies of toppling a tyrannical American government with their firearms.[/QUOTE] With what evidence? What proof? Do you have statistics? Or are you going to pull some online forum of nut jobs that is a comparative equivalent to what westboro baptists are to Christianity as a whole? Apparently you've never heard of things like USPSA, IPSC, F Class, or Railguns (not the scifi shit you see on a Navy Boat, super high precision bench shooting rifles). You've also never heard of people buying guns for collecting or admiring their mechanical workings. Not every single gun owner, let alone a majority of, is a toothless hick afraid that the gubment gon take his guns.

Obviously we should be putting background checks on these kids before they get to touch weapons.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48950162]A large portion of gun owners do in fact believe that and have fantasies of toppling a tyrannical American government with their firearms.[/QUOTE] Gonna need some proofs on that there buddy

[QUOTE=BazzBerry;48947637]see that is a very good example of a huge issue that annoys the hell out of me any time anybody [B][I]tries[/I][/B] to have a legitimate debate or tries to come up with sound ways of dealing with the problem that the United States undeniably has, there are always people with the attitude "you realize there is nothing that can be done, right? why bother trying?"[/QUOTE] Coming from the other side of the fence, I find it extremely irritating having this conversation over and over again because nobody ever brings anything new to the table. Every proposal always has mountains of holes, and most people arguing for those changes refuse to acknowledge that. The current status quo has serious problems. Only a complete buffoon would ever deny that. That doesn't intrinsically mean that any change away from the status quo is better. If you actually have a worakable solution to getting rid of the ENORMOUS stockpiles of guns in the wrong hands, while still allowing the personal freedom for responsible people to own them, I'd love to hear it. I have never seen a solution that didn't ignore ludicrous costs capable of doing that.

[QUOTE=EvilMattress;48950401]Gonna need some proofs on that there buddy[/QUOTE] This argument appears all of the time in these threads. [QUOTE=MaverickIB;48926615] As a serviceman, I want our people to be as armed as possible. They should be able to resist us. Keyword: Resist. If our people were disarmed, it would be easy to convince us to set up camps and roll into cities...[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=catbarf;48928156]Even a [i]tenth of a percent[/i] of the American populace yields three hundred thousand armed insurgents, a number the military couldn't even begin to deal with on home soil. You don't need a majority of the population to wage an effective insurgency campaign. Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan have a substantial minority of the population supporting the insurgency, let alone a majority.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ShadowSocks8;48921798]every time I read somebody going "you couldn't go against the government any way whats the point?????" I feel physically sorry for that individual like hello excuse me have you not noticed that we were at war in 2 countries with a fighting force of less (starting) capability than our civilian populace and they gave us hell[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SnakeHead;48920883]Tell that to the Mujahideen and they'll laugh you out of their country just like they did to the Soviets and the Coalition. A civilian militia ready to lead a guerilla war with even pea shooters against an invading force (or a home brewed threat) is much better than nothing. You can't say other nations aren't afraid of the thought of invading the US even though most of us just have rifles.[/QUOTE]

Oh right, "Organized military has trouble with disorganized resitance" (which is usually said in response to people claiming the opposite as some sort of argument) is the same as "grrr I hope that the country goes to hell ao I can shoot people"

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48954194]This argument appears all of the time in these threads.[/QUOTE] Arguments for having guns to protect against a repressive government and people having anarchy boners are two separate things. It's as if people don't comprehend that it is entirely possible for their government to become corrupt and oppressive. The notion of having firearms to defend themselves with is a valid argument, which by no means implies that they wish that. Are there people who want to see the US get flipped upside down in civil war? I'm sure there are. Most of us are just cautious and weary of the future, since it is not a matter of if but rather when the United States will once again face a huge crisis within its borders. None of us are saying it'll be today, tomorrow, ten years from now, or a century for that matter. You also take some of those quotes out of context, since they were met as rebuttals to people who said the civilian population would be decimated if the military pointed their cannons at them. They're making a point, not claiming that's what they want.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48954194]This argument appears all of the time in these threads.[/QUOTE] Hahah, really? You are being dishonest as fuck. [QUOTE=AlexConnor;48928008]What feasible action by the US government could cause the majority of the population to back overthrowing the government? It's not even remotely likely that the US government would attempt to attack it's population. The only event that might potentially kick off a revolution would be government attempts to disarm militias, and the majority of the US population would not see that as grounds to rebel. Hell, a lot of people would back disarming militias. So it's the American Revolution all over again, except probably with the levels of support reversed. 20-25% of the population (at best) for overthrowing the government, 40-45% actively supporting the government, everyone else just trying to stay the hell out of the way.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=catbarf;48928156]Even a [i]tenth of a percent[/i] of the American populace yields three hundred thousand armed insurgents, a number the military couldn't even begin to deal with on home soil. You don't need a majority of the population to wage an effective insurgency campaign. Neither Iraq nor Afghanistan have a substantial minority of the population supporting the insurgency, let alone a majority.[/QUOTE] I respond directly to his question about insurgencies, and you want to hold that up as evidence that a large portion of gun owners have fantasies about toppling the government. Hey, why don't you ask me about the effectiveness of airport security, so you can use my response to claim we want to hijack airline flights too? In for a penny, in for a pound. BazzBerry, this is why you sometimes see flippant, dismissive responses from gun owners. This is the shit we have to put up with.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;48954194]This argument appears all of the time in these threads.[/QUOTE] Sooo... 4 examples = a large portion of 100 million gun owners?

[QUOTE=Toro;48956298]Sooo... 4 examples = a large portion of 100 million gun owners?[/QUOTE] You aren't helping the matter with asinine logic like this. Not all gunowners are on facepunch, and of those that are, not all of them have posted in this thread. Making utterly baseless leaps in logic like this makes it even harder to even pretend to have an actual conversation about this topic. It's called a sample size. There's plenty of other reasons to shit on that abominable post, but nope, you just had to play the made up statistics card.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;48955627]Arguments for having guns to protect against a repressive government and people having anarchy boners are two separate things. It's as if people don't comprehend that it is entirely possible for their government to become corrupt and oppressive. The notion of having firearms to defend themselves with is a valid argument, which by no means implies that they wish that. Are there people who want to see the US get flipped upside down in civil war? I'm sure there are. Most of us are just cautious and weary of the future, since it is not a matter of if but rather when the United States will once again face a huge crisis within its borders. None of us are saying it'll be today, tomorrow, ten years from now, or a century for that matter. You also take some of those quotes out of context, since they were met as rebuttals to people who said the civilian population would be decimated if the military pointed their cannons at them. They're making a point, not claiming that's what they want.[/QUOTE] Basically this, One of the main reasons I own guns due to the fear that maybe sometime in my life, or in my children's lifetime, something like that could happen. Hell, what if something like Ferguson 2.0 but more violent happens in my city? Or something like the Los Angeles riots? I am going to protect my home from being looted and burnt. Here is a picture of koreans protecting their businesses during the L.A riots [IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TsFXJA9YHlE/TTeIfFOIuVI/AAAAAAAAAQI/VqNzxdhlp5s/s1600/58852252.jpg[/IMG]

LOL, those picts is crazy but but soo creative. lol