Passenger refuses body scan & pat down- records incident on phone.
227 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;26090646]Naw man, you're losing rights but gaining security! It's an even trade, right?[/QUOTE]
I defer back to my question about drinking and driving. Would you rather be free to drink alcohol and then drive wherever you want but risk killing innocent people and yourself, or not be allowed to drink alcohol and then drive, but innocent people and yourself aren't seriously injured or dead?
That's completely different, Zeddy.
There are other way to make sure that the airports are safe that don't involve invading our privacy.
Also, do you honestly think someone carrying a bomb or a gun will even try to get through the airport security? It would be much easier for them to walk into a mall and blow that up. The "War on terror" doesn't exist and you're all blindly defending it, losing all of your rights in the process.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;26090646]Naw man, you're losing rights but gaining security! It's an even trade, right?[/QUOTE]
Don't make it sound like the gestapo is going to be beating down peoples doors. Your giving up like 30 seconds of privacy in exchange for safer air travel for everybody.
Would you be fine with them placing camera's in your house for surveillance? I mean shit, if you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to hide, right?
[editline]16th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killoch0;26090813]Don't make it sound like the gestapo is going to be beating down peoples doors. Your giving up like 30 seconds of privacy in exchange for safer air travel for everybody.[/QUOTE]
Read example above your post.
[QUOTE=Heroms;26090720]Pretty sure that's illegal.[/QUOTE]
No, it isn't. They cannot refuse employment or housing or the like. And while that site does say that because they are for public accommodation they cannot discriminate, it also says that places like Nightclubs can because they tailor to specific clients. This allows business to say they are tailoring to specific clients, while the actuality is that they are refusing to serve others. Like I said, it is not fair, but it is allowed. Many courts would most likely be hard pressed to side with the business, particularly in this time, but the point still stands.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;26090739]I defer back to my question about drinking and driving. Would you rather be free to drink alcohol and then drive wherever you want but risk killing innocent people and yourself, or not be allowed to drink alcohol and then drive, but innocent people and yourself aren't seriously injured or dead?[/QUOTE]
I can see this concept also being extended to internet regulation.
[editline]15th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killoch0;26090813]Don't make it sound like the gestapo is going to be beating down peoples doors. Your giving up like 30 seconds of privacy in exchange for safer air travel for everybody.[/QUOTE]
It's not like I question the government all the time, but when it's an issue like this, I can't ignore it.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;26090863]No, it isn't. They cannot refuse employment or housing or the like. And while that site does say that because they are for public accommodation they cannot discriminate, it also says that places like Nightclubs can because they tailor to specific clients. This allows business to say they are tailoring to specific clients, while the actuality is that they are refusing to serve others. Like I said, it is not fair, but it is allowed. Many courts would most likely be hard pressed to side with the business, particularly in this time, but the point still stands.[/QUOTE]
Which just shows how fucked up your rights and law system is. Good job America.
[editline]16th November 2010[/editline]
lol I can't believe you're still defending this shit
[QUOTE=Heroms;26090811]
Also, do you honestly think someone carrying a bomb or a gun will even try to get through the airport security? It would be much easier for them to walk into a mall and blow that up. The "War on terror" doesn't exist and you're all blindly defending it, losing all of your rights in the process.[/QUOTE]
I doubt the people on the christmas day flight last year would agree that the war on terror is made up. I doubt too the crews of the cargo planes just a few weeks ago with the explosive printers would agree either.
[QUOTE=Heroms;26090811]That's completely different, Zeddy.
There are other way to make sure that the airports are safe that don't involve invading our privacy.
Also, do you honestly think someone carrying a bomb or a gun will even try to get through the airport security? It would be much easier for them to walk into a mall and blow that up. The "War on terror" doesn't exist and you're all blindly defending it, losing all of your rights in the process.[/QUOTE]
The government is stupid and ineffectual most of the time, but not evil. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlons_Razor]Hanlon's Razor[/url]: Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity. Also, yes, your privacy can be invaded in that example. The breathalyzer tests are the perfect example. You are not required to submit to them, but most states have a clause stating that you willingly are relinquishing the right to refuse the test by obtaining a driver's license. This means that if a police officer pulls you over and asks you to take a breathalyzer test, you have exactly zero right to refuse. They can charge you for refusal.
[editline]15th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killoch0;26090913]I doubt the people on the christmas day flight last year would agree that the war on terror is made up. I doubt too the crews of the cargo planes just a few weeks ago with the explosive printers would agree either.[/QUOTE]
Obviously set-ups by the DoHS to justify the War on Terror. What other reason could there be?
Again, your examples are irrelevant. Breathing into a small tube and getting your body groped and scanned completely naked are two different things.
[editline]16th November 2010[/editline]
"Government is not evil" Fuck are you talking about. First of all I'm not going to get into the definition of evil, but when your courts are siding with big corporations and giving less sentences for really harsh white collar crimes than people who literally handed themselves in for stealing a loaf of bread, you know something is wrong.
It's people like you that are the problem though, because you truly believe everything is fine and dandy and that your government is there to protect you.
[QUOTE=Killoch0;26089797]Fuck this guys right to privacy. Seriously. Fuck it.
What about the right to safety EVERY other passenger on that plane has. Do we just put up with the occasional pants bomb because some douche doesn't want his junk touched or an xray taken. Sometimes you have to weigh civil rights against one another, and in this case his side comes up a long long way short of the post.[/QUOTE]
[quote=Benjamin Franklin]
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety,deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.[/quote]
I think that ol' Ben pretty much sums that up for you.
[QUOTE=Heroms;26090991]Again, your examples are irrelevant. Breathing into a small tube and getting your body groped and scanned completely naked are two different things.[/QUOTE]
Ever heard of a frisk? Completely legal and unprotected by the Constitution.
[editline]15th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Blanketspace;26091025]I think that ol' Ben pretty much sums that up for you.[/QUOTE]
I've covered this before, read my other posts in this thread.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;26091033]Ever heard of a frisk? Completely legal and unprotected by the Constitution.
[/QUOTE]
Thing is, by law they can't frisk you or even search your car unless they have a valid suspicion for illegal activity.
Ofcourse the police completely disregard this and constantly pull people over and beat them simply because they're black. And what happens then? They get to sit at home on "leave" with 100% pay while the guy that got frisked get's charged for not complying.
I can't believe what you're saying right now honestly kid, go educate yourself.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;26091033]Ever heard of a frisk? Completely legal and unprotected by the Constitution.
[editline]15th November 2010[/editline]
I've covered this before, read my other posts in this thread.[/QUOTE]
I was aiming this Kill0ch0. I did indeed read your post, but his eagerness to remove the rights of someone he doesn't even know was just asking for that quote.
Guy's a fucking idiot. We've proven we can't have nice things like airports without stupid people doing stupid stuff, and thanks to that "Underpants Bomber" who came close to killing hundreds of people on Christmas day with a bomb in his underpants, these "pat-downs" and body scanners are absolutely necessary. He could have had a bomb in his pants for all anyone knows.
[QUOTE=Heroms;26091079]Thing is, by law they can't frisk you or even search your car unless they have a valid suspicion for illegal activity.
Ofcourse the police completely disregard this and constantly pull people over and beat them simply because they're black. And what happens then? They get to sit at home on "leave" with 100% pay while the guy that got frisked get's charged for not complying.
I can't believe what you're saying right now honestly kid, go educate yourself.[/QUOTE]
Actually, cops use a lot of tactics to try and get you to say yes to will you let me search your car. They'll ask you obvious yes questions than ask if they can search your car. If they pull you over you can legally refuse to let them search your car.
[IMG]http://www.sikharchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/backscatter_narrowweb__300x4640.jpg[/IMG]
Chubby blue ghost porn.
[QUOTE=Heroms;26090991]"Government is not evil" Fuck are you talking about. First of all I'm not going to get into the definition of evil, but when your courts are siding with big corporations and giving less sentences for really harsh white collar crimes than people who literally handed themselves in for stealing a loaf of bread, you know something is wrong.
It's people like you that are the problem though, because you truly believe everything is fine and dandy and that your government is there to protect you.[/QUOTE]
I'm the problem? People like you who believe the government's entire point of being is to kill or harm you are the problem. You live in twisted little bubbles of reality, believing that at any second, the police will kick in your door and execute you. You believe that there is some overruling conspiracy to wipe out everyone. If you kill everyone, what do you rule? What is to be obtained by removing your subjects? Congratulations, you and a few select people now rule a vast wasteland that is quickly crumbling to the ground because no one is left to maintain it.
Also, did you just go for Les Miserables? Jean Valjean is not here.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;26091033]
I've covered this before, read my other posts in this thread.[/QUOTE]
The fact that you assume you are more knowledgable on the discussion of liberty than someone like B. Franklin just shows your both ignorant and arrogant. My guess is moreso the latter.
[editline]16th November 2010[/editline]
Don't worry though not by much.
lol the fuck are you talking about did I hit a nerve
I'm saying that the government abuses it's power on a daily basis. Obviously a cop is not going to bust down my door, I'm white. :v:
In all seriousness though, cases like I described above [b]do[/b] happen. The government isn't going to protect you nor is it out to kill you, it simply sides with the people who have the most wealth and power.
[QUOTE=Heroms;26091079]Thing is, by law they can't frisk you or even search your car unless they have a valid suspicion for illegal activity.
Ofcourse the police completely disregard this and constantly pull people over and beat them simply because they're black. And what happens then? They get to sit at home on "leave" with 100% pay while the guy that got frisked get's charged for not complying.
I can't believe what you're saying right now honestly kid, go educate yourself.[/QUOTE]
Simply for being black? Haha. Hyperbole to the max. And yes, they do have to have a reason. With these scanners, they have a consistently valid reason. With the inability to accurately predict when an incident can happen or where or how, the threat is constant and suspicion is necessary. This combined with the potential for hundreds of deaths and large scale damage quite highly surpasses the risks inherent in someone hiding a little marijuana in their crotch or driving drunk.
[editline]15th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;26091197]The fact that you assume you are more knowledgable on the discussion of liberty than someone like B. Franklin just shows your both ignorant and arrogant. My guess is moreso the latter.
[editline]16th November 2010[/editline]
Don't worry though not by much.[/QUOTE]
You are probably the most well known conspiracy theorist on this forum. When did you become an intelligent authority on anything other than conspiracies and bullshit? Did the pot just call the kettle black?
[editline]15th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Heroms;26091219]lol the fuck are you talking about did I hit a nerve
I'm saying that the government abuses it's power on a daily basis. Obviously a cop is not going to bust down my door, I'm white. :v:
In all seriousness though, cases like I described above [b]do[/b] happen. The government isn't going to protect you nor is it out to kill you, it simply sides with the people who have the most wealth and power.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and the cops are put on unpaid leave and usually end up without a job after a proper investigation and in many cases also have lawsuits on their hands. And it sides with whoever has most correctly followed the rule of the law in the given situation, not just the wealthy and powerful. Correlation does not imply causation. So while more "wealthy and powerful" people may be let off, that does not mean that it was because they were wealthy and powerful.
Also, the police aren't going to kick in your door because, to the best of their knowledge, they have no reason. They aren't aware of any illegal actions you may to be taking, and they don't want to use resources on a frivolous course of action.
[Quote=Zeddy]:downswords:[/quote]
Not even gonna bother arguing with your dumbass seeing as how everyone else already is. I swear though if you're being serious you might want to get a reality check.
man air port security is just a waste of time in general
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;26091456]man air part security is just a waist of time in general[/QUOTE]
No it's not. And it's waste.
I've dealt with LAX and even without the inclusion of full-nude-o-vision it still takes me an extra hour to get through the airport with all the security.
On-topic: that guy was well within his right to refuse to go through the machine, especially since they are hazardous to your health.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;26091587]No it's not. And it's waste.[/QUOTE]
what has it accomplished that does not include wasting money and taxes and being racist
better the scanner than an airplane being blown out of the sky.
stop being paranoid also people still sneak explosives onto air ports or else you would not get those new cases. Not to mention it would still be possible to take down a plane as long as you got 5 guys to just rush the pilots out of no were and kill them with a pen or something
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;26091692]what has it accomplished that does not include wasting money and taxes and being racist[/QUOTE]
If there were no airport scanners, and fucktard could bring a gun or a bomb onto the plane.
well a basic scanner would make sense (even though there are still a million other ways to take down a plane without them) but to the level they are at its just stupid. also even if the air port security did help terrorists would just bomb raves or any were else there is a lot of people
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