Congress-caused default is ‘an Impeachable offense by the president’ Rep. Louie Gohmert - Polidicks

[QUOTE=demoguy08;42533618]An honest question from somebody who knows jack about state finances. How can the US keep raising the debt celiling indefinitely? What is stopping these guys from saying "our debt ceiling is 1000 trillion trillion" and call it a day? They're at ~14 trillion already, what makes banks & other lenders think they will ever get their money back?[/QUOTE] There is really no reason Congress can't set the debt ceiling to $100 trillion, it's basically an arbitrary limit. Congress passes spending bills, but the executive raises taxes and borrows money to pay those bills, and for some reason the authorization to borrow above a set amount is set by Congress in a different bill than the ones in which Congress commits the government to spending money. If we hit the debt ceiling, it means the Treasury can't borrow any additional money. Therefore, the government is forced to operate with only it's tax income, and the default risk comes into play if the government can't make the interest payments on it's debt. As I understand it, most US debt is in two forms: publicly available Treasury bonds, and intergovernmental loans. Around 75% of US debt is bonds, and of that, around 50% is held by Americans. Those Treasury securities pay such and such interest rate over a fixed period of time, at the end of which the money you spent on the initial purchase is returned. From Wikipedia: [quote]Treasury notes (or T-Notes) mature in two to ten years, have a coupon payment every six months, and have denominations of $1,000. In the basic transaction, one buys a "$1,000" T-Note for say, $950, collects interest over 10 years of say, 3% per year, which comes to $30 yearly, and at the end of the 10 years cashes it in for $1000. So, $950 over the course of 10 years becomes $1300.[/quote] When NPR mentions the yield on the 10-year T-Note every morning, this is what they're talking about. So, most of the US debt is in that 2-10 year maturation period, meaning we're just making those interest payments on it. Very little of that debt is being "cashed out" at any given point in time, since people like to hold onto it as an asset. This is a large part of how we get away with having so much debt and nobody saying "They'll never pay it back, stop buying US debt!" This is also why I HATE the household budget analogies and the phrase "America's credit card" that keep coming up in the media. As you can see, national debt =/= household debt most of us are familiar with. If you really wanna blow your mind, start thinking about where the Federal Reserve gets the money to buy $85 billion a month in Treasury securities.

[QUOTE=Justjake274;42534615]raise the debt ceiling? wtf fucking obama just pushing problems down the line don't raise the debt ceiling? wtf fucking obama doesn't he care about the people[/QUOTE] Dont blame the president, blame congress. More specifically, blame the house.

It's funny, a Tea Party helped kick off the creation of this nation, and at this rate, a Tea Party will help destroy it.

[QUOTE=Sableye;42532706]the part about "insurection or rebellion"[/QUOTE] "[B]Including[/B] debts incurred for payments of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion" So yeah that's included, but the wording makes it pretty clear that this is a portion of a larger group.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42535292]It's funny, a Tea Party helped kick off the creation of this nation, and at this rate, a Tea Party will help destroy it.[/QUOTE] Funny [sp]mortifying[/sp] how things have come full circle.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42535292]It's funny, a Tea Party helped kick off the creation of this nation, and at this rate, a Tea Party will help destroy it.[/QUOTE]Oh god....thank you for pointing that out. I never realized the sheer irony of this situation.

I just can't stand all this Obongo. It's like people don't understand that the president can't move on anything without and okay from Congress and when you have Republicans tying up Congress like a bunch of spoiled children, NOTHING is going to get done.

Can't Obama take the 14th Amendment (which states that the US [I]will not[/I] default on its debts) and use that to justify an executive order lifting the debt ceiling/taking away the House's power to establish an arbitrary debt ceiling to use like a club to push around the Senate/executive? It would be politically costly, but it would [B]work[/B] (if it's possible).

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42537715]Can't Obama take the 14th Amendment (which states that the US [I]will not[/I] default on its debts) and use that to justify an executive order lifting the debt ceiling/taking away the House's power to establish an arbitrary debt ceiling to use like a club to push around the Senate/executive? It would be politically costly, but it would [B]work[/B] (if it's possible).[/QUOTE] Pretty sure that power lies with the treasury department

[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;42537043]I just can't stand all this Obongo. It's like people don't understand that the president can't move on anything without and okay from Congress and when you have Republicans tying up Congress like a bunch of spoiled children, NOTHING is going to get done.[/QUOTE] Politicians manipulate this as much as they can.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42537715]Can't Obama take the 14th Amendment (which states that the US [I]will not[/I] default on its debts) and use that to justify an executive order lifting the debt ceiling/taking away the House's power to establish an arbitrary debt ceiling to use like a club to push around the Senate/executive? It would be politically costly, but it would [B]work[/B] (if it's possible).[/QUOTE] I'm not sure it's worth the cost, to inflate the executive branch with even more power.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42539506]I'm not sure it's worth the cost, to inflate the executive branch with even more power.[/QUOTE] Well, if the choice comes down to either the US executive having greater power or another worldwide financial crisis I'd choose the former. One can be fixed without a lot of suffering through constitutional amendments (if people find it that unworkable) but the other can only be fixed at the cost of lots of peoples livelihoods.

i wonder what will happen when amerca defaults

[QUOTE=LVL FACTORY;42540134]i wonder what will happen when amerca defaults[/QUOTE] It can't be good for the dollar.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;42537715]Can't Obama take the 14th Amendment (which states that the US [I]will not[/I] default on its debts) and use that to justify an executive order lifting the debt ceiling/taking away the House's power to establish an arbitrary debt ceiling to use like a club to push around the Senate/executive? It would be politically costly, but it would [B]work[/B] (if it's possible).[/QUOTE] Even if he was able to do that it still sends a message that Congress is incapable of passing a budget, which also means bad news for our credit. It's probably not as bad as defaulting but it would be problematic in other ways.