Who’s responsible for the refugees? - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48658658][b]Who’s Responsible for the Refugees?[/b] Via [url=http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/opinion/whos-responsible-for-the-refugees.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur]The New York Times[/url] ____________________ This line right here... "So it’s a bit rich for American commentators to lecture Europeans when part of the reason the refugees are arriving on Europe’s doorstep is American foreign policy." ^ Holy shit, he's right. He's so right. [editline]11th September 2015[/editline] If anything, the US government is directly responsible for destabilizing the entire Middle East region in the last decades... so yea, I agree.[/QUOTE] Except the US didn't cause Syria or even have a hand in it, IS was a small group in northern Iraq before Assad decided to start butchering people who spoke out against his government then when the US tried intervening through the UN to deescalate the early civil war Russia and China who were profiting off of the Syrian army by then blocked the resolution next the US followed up by threatening military action of its own to which Russia arranged through a last minute deal to halt syrias chemical weapons use and dispose of its declared stockpile, then when the US went and launched airstrikes against Isis later on Russia still spoke out against violating a country's sovernty. So no, at every turn we tried to deescalate this, there's more countries at work here making a profit and gaining strategic assets by keeping this war going [editline]11th September 2015[/editline] There are more countries at play in the Middle East than the US. The Syrian civil war was caused by Syria and perpetuated because of Assad's international backers who would loose more if he were diposed

[QUOTE=Swebonny;48659507]Im fairly certain that is because they are bringing thier family in via the legal and safe route after theyve established i the country. I think in the video posted here one of them said he didnt want to stay in Denmark because getting his family therr would take half a year. While in sweden it just takes a few months.[/QUOTE] Cool, but... who is supposed to protect their families there these few months ? The army, which probably doesn't have anyone to recruit anymore ?

I'm pretty sure they are in the refugee camps like they are supposed to. The men are travelling here to secure a prosperous life for their families in the welfare countries. They've essentially become immigrants at that point because they are no longer in direct danger, but can take shortcuts to citizenship because of their refugee status and get other benefits regular immigrants can't.

[QUOTE=Sableye;48659570]Except the US didn't cause Syria or even have a hand in it, IS was a small group in northern Iraq before Assad decided to start butchering people who spoke out against his government then when the US tried intervening through the UN to deescalate the early civil war Russia and China who were profiting off of the Syrian army by then blocked the resolution next the US followed up by threatening military action of its own to which Russia arranged through a last minute deal to halt syrias chemical weapons use and dispose of its declared stockpile, then when the US went and launched airstrikes against Isis later on Russia still spoke out against violating a country's sovernty. So no, at every turn we tried to deescalate this, there's more countries at work here making a profit and gaining strategic assets by keeping this war going [editline]11th September 2015[/editline] There are more countries at play in the Middle East than the US. The Syrian civil war was caused by Syria and perpetuated because of Assad's international backers who would loose more if he were diposed[/QUOTE] [quote]According to the newly declassified US document, the Pentagon foresaw the likely rise of the ‘Islamic State’ as a direct consequence of this strategy, and warned that it could destabilize Iraq. Despite anticipating that Western, Gulf state and Turkish support for the “Syrian opposition” — which included al-Qaeda in Iraq — could lead to the emergence of an ‘Islamic State’ in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), the document provides no indication of any decision to reverse the policy of support to the Syrian rebels. On the contrary, the emergence of an al-Qaeda affiliated “Salafist Principality” as a result is described as a strategic opportunity to isolate Assad.[/quote] [url]https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/secret-pentagon-report-reveals-west-saw-isis-as-strategic-asset-b99ad7a29092[/url] The reality is, we (the West, Turkey, the Sunni monarchies) tried to exploit unrest against an anti-Israel, anti-Western Ba'athist regime. We are as much of a reason why there isn't peace as you accuse of Russia and China, who tried to preserve the status quo and make a return to stability. For as long as we kept alive the myth of the moderate rebel government coming to power (while knowingly supporting Islamists) and tried to make room for this possibility, we helped keep Syria's agony real. We hear the same tired old excuses for every regime change project we get involved in. Whether it wasn't us it was our allies, some dictator did x and that justifies our foreign policy moves, we have popular support, or went through proper UN channels, whatever. The result is the same, regime change in the interest of the imperial 'democracy' and friends. The bonus side effect of all this destabilization, intervention, regime change, and civil war is refugees. Reap what you sow.

So do you think we should ship them back when its safe or see how it goes?

[QUOTE=Superkilll307;48659871]So do you think we should ship them back when its safe or see how it goes?[/QUOTE] Ship them back? What, round them up after a few years and stick em all on a boat... Most likely doesn't work.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;48659468]I thought that typically refugees were supposed to more often be women and children, because the men tend to get drafted into whatever army controls the area.[/QUOTE]Men are fleeing because they don't want to be drafted.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;48658658]If anything, the US government is directly responsible for destabilizing the entire Middle East region in the last decades... so yea, I agree.[/QUOTE] You could argue that, had the middle east been a stable place before. It's been an unstable region ever since Britain and France drew up the borders from the territories they took after conquering the Ottoman Empire at the end of WW1. Europe fucked up the Middle East, and the US has been trying to hold all that shit together for the past century. We haven't always done a good job at it, but we've been trying to stabilize a place thrown into turmoil 98 years ago.

[QUOTE=Explosions;48659535]deposed Assad except he would lambaste the decision and then blame the US again.[/QUOTE] Anti-Americanism and White guilt are getting a bit ridiculous.