Valve: Linux More Viable Than Windows 8 for Gaming - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;38238839]This is exactly what they have been saying on this issue the whole time. They are opposed to it becoming a locked down system in the future, which is why they are saying that Linux is more viable because it won't become locked down in any regard.[/QUOTE] Microsoft makes all of its money from developers. They have not, nor will not, close off their system. If they really wanted to do that, then development for the desktop would no longer exist. We wouldn't see new APIs such as DirectCompute, Dx11+, C# support, Visual Studio, or any other advances in those fields. We also wouldn't see ridiculous backwards support for 10+ yr old APIs and programs that were written from the early 2000's. The whole point of the store being locked down is so that apps don't fuck with your system. It's for your mom, or grandparents, or whatever.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38238851]And you still don't understand what's actually Valve's gist at all. It's not Metro, and it's not the Store itself. Try to read my posts. You are out of the bowl.[/QUOTE] Cry about it. Your point is superstitious as fuck and only assumes that Microsoft wants to royally fuck developers over in the near future. If you knew shit about Microsoft's position in the desktop space you would know they'd never make a move that risky with the abundance of alternatives around the corner. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Jawalt;38238856]HEre have a quick comp sci. lesson: [cpp] int main(int argc, char **argv){ for(int i = 0; i < argc; i++) { puts(argv[i]) }}[/cpp] BAM will print any arguments supplied to it on literally just about any architecture imagineable. The only difference between architecture here is the size of the datatypes. That and APIs are really the two things that hold things back from proper porting. Writing good code with the C standard in mind will allow you to go from one platform to another pretty easy. MAY OR MAY NOT BE VALID C CODE ALSO MISSING AN INCLUDE.[/QUOTE] Nice of you to do that, but what exactly has it to do with the argument I'm presenting? I'm saying that their reasoning is shit, not that Linux isn't a nice platform.

[QUOTE=Jookia;38238927]Except it's not optional on all Windows 8 installations (ARM).[/QUOTE] Then don't buy an ARM tablet?

[QUOTE=Jookia;38238927]Except it's not optional on all Windows 8 installations (ARM).[/QUOTE] They're wrong there, yes, but Valve is wrong to worry at all about Windows RT. They're assuming people are going to play shooters like Half-Life on their tablets? They really think that even 1% of the Steam library will ever see an ARM port? They should just largely ignore Windows on ARM for now because it's the polar opposite of the kind of people that would be deeply into Steam. Nobody is going to buy a Surface to play Portal on it. They couldn't anyway, seeing as it hasn't and will not be ported.

[QUOTE=Foda;38238990]Then don't buy an ARM tablet?[/QUOTE] I'm not going to. I'm also going to call Microsoft out on their bullshit when it affects the computing industry.

[QUOTE=Wormy;38238926]It doesn't matter just because some documents and tools are out of date, the community finds new ways to work around it. The 2007 version can be put into good use depending on the user's creativity.[/QUOTE] Yep, look at Hammer. It's using a very very very old API for window management that's not even supported in new versions of Windows. Steam does the same fucking thing with custom EVERYTHING and it's slow as balls.

[QUOTE=SA Spyder;38239017]They're wrong there, yes, but Valve is wrong to worry at all about Windows RT. They're assuming people are going to play shooters like Half-Life on their tablets? They really think that even 1% of the Steam library will ever see an ARM port? They should just largely ignore Windows on ARM for now because it's the polar opposite of the kind of people that would be deeply into Steam. Nobody is going to buy a Surface to play Portal on it. They couldn't anyway, seeing as it hasn't and will not be ported.[/QUOTE] You make a LOT of assumptions that things won't happen, yet Linux ports have happened.

Come on you guys, read. They are worried because windows is moving, MOV[B]ING[/B] towards a more closed environment, as in their actions are indicative of taking that road. They didn't say that windows 8 is already there, they just said its a step in a very bad direction, and thus they pronounce their disagreement with it and then announce that they are developing a backup plan in case things go horribly wrong. I personally agree, while the app store may be easy to ignore, it certainly enables and even encourages microsoft to go down the dreaded 'closed down computers' path, especially if you ignore or even defend it, no matter your reasons.

[QUOTE=SA Spyder;38238964]Cry about it. Your point is superstitious as fuck and only assumes that Microsoft wants to royally fuck developers over in the near future. If you knew shit about Microsoft's position in the desktop space you would know they'd never make a move that risky with the abundance of alternatives around the corner.[/QUOTE] Hahaha, I am not going to cry about it, really. I just think I know what Valve is doing and you seem to be missing the point. I don't know what's going to happen with any amount of certainty, and obviously neither does Valve. But I think you yourself shouldn't be so cocksure either.

[QUOTE=Jookia;38239034]You make a LOT of assumptions that things won't happen, yet Linux ports have happened.[/QUOTE] Linux has been around forever and is primarily used on desktops and laptops (disregard phones), environments suitable for Steam. Windows RT is tablet-only. It's safe to assume that Valve isn't targeting tablets for gaming any time soon.

[QUOTE=SA Spyder;38239083]It's safe to assume that Valve isn't targeting tablets for gaming any time soon.[/QUOTE] Why?

[QUOTE=SA Spyder;38239083]Linux has been around forever and is primarily used on desktops and laptops (disregard phones), environments suitable for Steam. Windows RT is tablet-only. It's safe to assume that Valve isn't targeting tablets for gaming any time soon.[/QUOTE] Didn't iOS/Android Steam client have some snippets of unused code possibly related to handling actual application store? Wouldn't that imply just such a thing?

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38239082]Hahaha, I am not going to cry about it, really. I just think I know what Valve is doing and you seem to be missing the point. I don't know what's going to happen with any amount of certainty, and obviously neither does Valve. But I think you yourself shouldn't be so cocksure either.[/QUOTE] You fall under the audience they're aiming to please by saying shit like this, so I'm not surprised you're nose-deep in their ass. You're being a little over-assertive for someone who "doesn't know what's going to happen." Valve clearly don't know what's going on here if they think Windows on ARM tablets will kill Steam.

[QUOTE=Jookia;38239107]Why?[/QUOTE] Because they're weak as fuck?

[QUOTE=SA Spyder;38239162]You fall under the audience they're aiming to please by saying shit like this, so I'm not surprised you're nose-deep in their ass. You're being a little over-assertive for someone who "doesn't know what's going to happen." Valve clearly don't know what's going on here if they think Windows on ARM tablets will kill Steam.[/QUOTE] If my nose is up any ass, it's certainly isn't Valve's, trust me. As of late, I can't approve neither their marketing (European pricing is a joke), nor game development (where are actual *games*?), nor even Steam development (not meaning the Linux release. My problems are like WHY THE FUCK DOES COMMUNITY KEEP HAVING GLOBAL BLACKOUTS). I sorta feel tho your feet barely poke out of Microsoft's ass at this point, tho, watch out or you gonna fall out of their mouth.

Why? Because I can't see Apple allowing Steam on iOS, and thus there goes their number one source of income. Next best bet for them was Windows RT. But they're butthurt that that route got closed for them as well. So then they go ahead and state the entirety of Windows, comprising of potentially over a billion computers out there, is not viable for gaming because a version of it making up something like 0.01% of its market share, won't run Steam? Who knows what they're doing now? Because it seems Valve is being daft as shit here.

[QUOTE=SA Spyder;38239218]Why? Because I can't see Apple allowing Steam on iOS, and thus there goes their number one source of income. Next best bet for them was Windows RT. But they're butthurt that that route got closed for them as well. So then they go ahead and state the entirety of Windows, comprising of potentially over a billion computers out there, is not viable for gaming because a version of it making up something like 0.01% of its market share, won't run Steam? Who knows what they're doing now? Because it seems Valve is being daft as shit here.[/QUOTE] Steam community is on iOS, Steam store is on OSX. What makes you believe the actual game selling wouldn't be allowed on iOS too?

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38239212]If my nose is up any ass, it's certainly isn't Valve's, trust me. As of late, I can't approve neither their marketing (European pricing is a joke), nor game development (where are actual *games*?), nor even Steam development (not meaning the Linux release. My problems are like WHY THE FUCK DOES COMMUNITY KEEP HAVING GLOBAL BLACKOUTS). I sorta feel tho your feet barely poke out of Microsoft's ass at this point, tho, watch out or you gonna fall out of their mouth.[/QUOTE] Nice to see that I reduced you to petty insults. At least all my posts had some sort of argument to hold them together. Frankly, you're a bit biased, and given how elitist Linux users are and how much Microsoft-bashing happens among them, I'm not sure you're well qualified to argue much here. Valve are overreacting. And this notion that this Windows RT limit is the start of things to come for x86 Windows is rubbish. Microsoft would never take such a big risk. They might as well hand out free copies to Linux and coupons for Macs if they ever pull that shit and they know it.

[QUOTE=SilentOpp;38237972]That would only be a closed system if the App store was the only method to download applications. You are not restricted from buying and installing applications from other places. A central windows marketplace != a closed system. If the issue is that Steam won't receive as much attention being a third party application, you aren't going to solve it moving to a much lesser known operating system.[/QUOTE] Chaos eventually becomes ordered. No matter what. Competition eventually descends into monopoly. The problem is that the presence of the store, in and of itself (as with Apple store) is the first step towards eventually closing off the platform and making it the only entryway. As soon as that happens, They've got total control over what you're allowed to use on your computer. At that point, we might as well have the La Li Lu Le Lo on our hands, but instead of being a system for the government, every corporation has one and before you know it, you're a victim of their agenda. Whatever that may be. We don't know if this'll happen, but Netflix, Itunes store, XBL, PSN and all the others are already like that. why leave it to Microsoft to decide when we can just say no and use another OS? Are you a follower or a leader? A peon or an individual?

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38239260]Steam community is on iOS, Steam store is on OSX. What makes you believe the actual game selling wouldn't be allowed on iOS too?[/QUOTE] Selling, sure. Playing, fuck no. What makes me sure is that Apple are nazis when it comes to that. They introduced a policy not so long ago limiting putting stores in apps without paying Apple royalties of 30%. Now you're telling me they're going to somehow allow launching unsigned code (games) from another repository, let alone installing apps from another app? Hah, no way.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38239260]Steam community is on iOS, Steam store is on OSX. What makes you believe the actual game selling wouldn't be allowed on iOS too?[/QUOTE] It's allowed. AS soon as they live up to Apple's world views, in which Sex, mortality and the human condition don't exist. Or did you forget that they've got a 50% stake in Pixar and 6% in disney? Censorship is a bad thing, no matter who's doing it and why.

[QUOTE=SA Spyder;38239354]Nice to see that I reduced you to petty insults. At least all my posts had some sort of argument to hold them together. Frankly, you're a bit biased, and given how elitist Linux users are and how much Microsoft-bashing happens among them, I'm not sure you're well qualified to argue much here. Valve are overreacting. And this notion that this Windows RT limit is the start of things to come for x86 Windows is rubbish. Microsoft would never take such a big risk. They might as well hand out free copies to Linux and coupons for Macs if they ever pull that shit and they know it.[/QUOTE] [I]Excuse me?[/I] [I][B]Excuse me?![/B][/I] [quote]Cry about it.[/quote] [quote]If you knew shit about Microsoft's position[/quote] [quote]so I'm not surprised you're nose-deep in their ass[/quote] You are insulting people, and namely me, again and again. Calling me out for returning a first one is just childish. And I am biased? And what the heck are you? Where does your idea of superior absolute overview come from? Man you gotta be shitting me! I thought I was actually discussing something here, but I see many (perhaps even most) people already got the point and I am left here arguing an uphill battle into the mentally challenged house now, so I think I will excuse myself. Good day sir.

About damn time Windows is getting some competition on this front. And no, I don't consider OSX competition in that regard, due to the pricetag of beefy computers running OSX (hackintosh not included) [QUOTE=Jookia;38237678]Servers, satellites, phones, desktops, heaters, GPSes.[/QUOTE] Somewhere some company has released Toasters and dildo's running Linux.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38239461][I]Excuse me?[/I] [I][B]Excuse me?![/B][/I] You are insulting people, and namely me, again and again. Calling me out for returning a first one is just childish. And I am biased? And what the heck are you? Where does your idea of superior absolute overview come from? Man you gotta be shitting me! I thought I was actually discussing something here, but I see many (perhaps even most) people already got the point and I am left here arguing an uphill battle into the mentally challenged house now, so I think I will excuse myself. Good day sir.[/QUOTE] [quote=SA Spyder]At least all my posts had some sort of argument to hold them together.[/quote] And they did. You kind of stopped arguing and started whining at my opinion. I don't really mean to just insult and run away. I get into arguments in a pretty bad, sometimes offensive way. But I always back my shit up with a proper argument. Anyway, sorry for posting like a bit of a prick, but you know I present a good argument. If you choose to back out of it, that's fine. Later.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;38239172]Because they're weak as fuck?[/QUOTE] Can you explain to me, awesomecaek, why exactly you disagree with this?

[QUOTE=Van-man;38239500]Somewhere some company has released Toasters and dildo's running Linux.[/QUOTE] Even a vacuum cleaner can be powered by Linux [img]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2341/pacmanp.png[/img]

[QUOTE=SA Spyder;38239548]And they did. You kind of stopped arguing and started whining at my opinion. I don't really mean to just insult and run away. I get into arguments in a pretty bad, sometimes offensive way. But I always back my shit up with a proper argument. Anyway, sorry for posting like a bit of a prick, but you know I present a good argument. If you choose to back out of it, that's fine. Later.[/QUOTE] Just a FYI, I' not laughing [I]WITH[/I] you, I'm laughing [I]AT[/I] you.

[QUOTE=Van-man;38239971]Just a FYI, I' not laughing [I]WITH[/I] you, I'm laughing [I]AT[/I] you.[/QUOTE] Yeah you're known to dick around with no valuable input to anything. Continue.

[QUOTE=Jookia;38238074]Which says a lot about Valve's decision if they're going to build the framework up just to spite Windows.[/QUOTE] If they can get developers to start using OpenGL in any kind of major capacity (since directx sure as fuck isn't coming to Linux), get graphics hardware vendors to release competently made drivers for most popular cards, push Linux as a consumer/desktop OS, change the attitude of hardware vendors to make open source drivers the norm then I'm all for it but it's a long way to go. [editline]29th October 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;38239260]Steam community is on iOS, Steam store is on OSX. What makes you believe the actual game selling wouldn't be allowed on iOS too?[/QUOTE] ummmmmmmmmmm no Apple have a policy of not allowing apps that duplicate the functionality of stock apps, this is even more true of the app store than the others since why would they shoot themselves in the foot by allowing other people in on one of their biggest moneyspinners? They take a significant percentage of every app sold and earn so much from this they could give away iphones and still make a profit; allowing other people to eat into this is frankly stupid business strategy, and unthinkable for apple.