Germany 'would accept UK exit from EU' to protect migration rules - Polidicks

Are people still living in the 1900's? Because Jesus, have you read them? "No because our countrymen are getting less jobs due..." What the flying fuck ducks? And when someone thought that humanity had understood that everyone was equal no matter nation, skin colour, religion, etc.

It's depressing just how rampant racism and misinformation really is in this country, I wish I could say people like Baron Von Hax were one in fifty or less but unfortunately I can't. I genuinely believe that Cameron is stuck between a rock and a hard place in his interaction with the EU; being forced to act against his better judgement to appease those who use The Sun and The Daily Mail as their primary sources of information, a tragically large portion of the electorate, and who threaten to close the book altogether by giving UKIP a shot at power unless he takes firm contrary stances purely for the sake of taking firm contrary stances. The problem in doing so is that he risks alienating the UK from the rest of Europe even in the event that the referendum is voted in favour of remaining in the EU, which is an optimistic outcome at this point. I have to say I agree with the overall sentiment of European posters in this thread comparing the UK to a spoiled child demanding special treatment, which pains me to say as a patriotic Brit.

Just so everyone knows Britain will not leave the EU without a referendum being held. A referendum that will result in a vote of no agaisnt leaving the EU. This will occur because despite what people may think or want to assume Britain dosn't actually want to leave the union. They just want it to be open to reform instead of becoming more of a bureaucratic mess that really serves the interest of a few powerful entities rather than the majority of its member states wishes.

[QUOTE=Memobot;46394273]Other countries will follow if the UK leaves.[/QUOTE] YOU'LL LEAVE WITH ME, RIGHT GUYS?? GUYS???

Fucking told you! Kick em even

I think it's a bit shit Scotland will likely get dragged out of the eu by England just because the independence no vote won by 5%. We aren't actually getting a say in the UK in/out referendum because we're so small.

[QUOTE=bearwolf;46397441]Just so everyone knows Britain will not leave the EU without a referendum being held. A referendum that will result in a vote of no agaisnt leaving the EU. This will occur because despite what people may think or want to assume Britain dosn't actually want to leave the union. They just want it to be open to reform instead of becoming more of a bureaucratic mess that really serves the interest of a few powerful entities rather than the majority of its member states wishes.[/QUOTE] This is about the possibility of us getting kicked out if Cameron keeps being a tosspot and trying to renegotiate things, which he is trying even without a referendum on leaving or not.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;46397794]I think it's a bit shit Scotland will likely get dragged out of the eu by England just because the independence no vote won by 5%. We aren't actually getting a say in the UK in/out referendum because we're so small.[/QUOTE] You are getting a say, though? Your vote means as much as everyone else's. It sucks, but that's how it works.

[QUOTE=Satansick;46394234]Why does the UK need special treatment?[/QUOTE] They're one of the founding members of EU, aren't they?

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;46398020]You are getting a say, though? Your vote means as much as everyone else's. It sucks, but that's how it works.[/QUOTE] England has pretty much the polar opposite view on the EU - in general - compared to Scotland. England makes up 84.9% of the vote. Scotland makes up 8.9%. We aren't getting a say, realistically

[QUOTE=Flapadar;46398055]England has pretty much the polar opposite view on the EU - in general - compared to Scotland. England makes up 84.9% of the vote. Scotland makes up 8.9%. We aren't getting a say, realistically[/QUOTE] This is honestly the biggest flaw with democracy. Minorities will always get fucked on for it.

[QUOTE=MuTAnT;46398067]This is honestly the biggest flaw with democracy. Minorities will always get fucked on for it.[/QUOTE] which is why I really wished for Scottish independence, please don't let us leave the EU, dont leave scotland with the BNP I mean, UKIP.

[QUOTE=Swineflu;46394243]Good riddance UK, acting like a spoiled child all the time[/QUOTE] yes how dare they foot everyone's fucking bill and be one of the biggest givers in the EU

[QUOTE=Dermock;46398128]yes how dare they foot everyone's fucking bill and be one of the biggest givers in the EU[/QUOTE] You're saying it as if the UK isn't reaping any benefits from being in the EU. Get real.

[QUOTE=Craigewan;46394310]No, they really won't. They'll see the UK leave, and then they'll see our economy fucking tank, and then they'll go "Maybe this free movement stick isn't such a high price to pay" Because it is really fucking not, it is amazing how misinformed people are over what the EU Free Movement agreement actually brings to our shores, but the electorate think it is a massive problem and UKIP and the Tories are pandering to that vocal section of the voter base.[/QUOTE] Are you implying the UK is the driving force behind the EU economics? brb I need to go and find my sides.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;46398055]England has pretty much the polar opposite view on the EU - in general - compared to Scotland. England makes up 84.9% of the vote. Scotland makes up 8.9%. We aren't getting a say, realistically[/QUOTE] Sure, England and Scotland don't share the same political views in general, but it's not like [I]every[/I] person in England is against the EU, and every person in Scotland is in favour of it. Copenhagen is also very left leaning compared to the rest of Denmark, but that doesn't mean we don't have a say. There will always be sub-groups with radically different views from the majority. [editline]3rd November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mega1mpact;46398186]Are you implying the UK is the driving force behind the EU economics? brb I need to go and find my sides.[/QUOTE] You need to go find your reading comprehension as well. He's saying that countries thinking about leaving the EU will see the UK crash and burn and think "guess the EU isn't all that bad". He's not saying the UK is the driving force behind EU economics.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;46398260]Sure, England and Scotland don't share the same political views in general, but it's not like [I]every[/I] person in England is against the EU, and every person in Scotland is in favour of it. Copenhagen is also very left leaning compared to the rest of Denmark, but that doesn't mean we don't have a say. There will always be sub-groups with radically different views from the majority. [editline]3rd November 2014[/editline] You need to go find your reading comprehension as well. He's saying that countries thinking about leaving the EU will see the UK crash and burn and think "guess the EU isn't all that bad". He's not saying the UK is the driving force behind EU economics.[/QUOTE] The vast majority of Scottish people are not opposed to the EU. we aren't talking about a small subset of people having their voices drowned out - we're talking about a whole country.

[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;46398186]Are you implying the UK is the driving force behind the EU economics? brb I need to go and find my sides.[/QUOTE] No, that's not what I was saying at all. As GoDong-DK said, you need to work on your reading comprehension. [editline]3rd November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Flapadar;46398324]The vast majority of Scottish people are not opposed to the EU. we aren't talking about a small subset of people having their voices drowned out - we're talking about a whole country.[/QUOTE] Growing disillusionment with the UK from No voters in the aftermath of the Referendum, the whole Brexit rubbish could be the death knell of the UK in more ways than one.

[QUOTE=Fr3ddi3;46395312]There's plenty of pensioners who still want to work despite being retired. I work with 3 who choose not to sit on their ass all day because it bores them senseless, read that as part time or casual work not 40+ hours a week.[/QUOTE] They should still not be counted as looking for a job because they don't need one. In fact, they're denying jobs to people who do, just because "they're bored". This is really going against your point of view more than for it.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;46398324]The vast majority of Scottish people are not opposed to the EU. we aren't talking about a small subset of people having their voices drowned out - we're talking about a whole country.[/QUOTE] Give this page a read: [url]https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3463/Support-for-EU-membership-highest-for-23-years-even-as-UKIP-rises-in-the-polls.aspx[/url] The idea that England is anti-EU is massively overblown - as always it depends on where you look and what sample you use. But the overall trend is that despite the rise of UKIP, support for the EU is actually rising. UKIP is polarising the debate forcing people to go one way or another instead of sitting in the middle. For those who don't want to read the page: [IMG]https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Images/Polls/eu-stay-in-or-get-out-oct-2014.png[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Images/Polls/eu-stay-in-or-get-out-trend-oct-2014.png[/IMG] And to provide a bit of context for those outside the UK: Ipsos MORI are one of the biggest polling companies in the UK and are widely respected for providing accurate data. In short: Scotland isn't much different to the rest of the UK when it comes to the EU and the UK as a whole is fairly supportive of the EU.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;46398324]The vast majority of Scottish people are not opposed to the EU. we aren't talking about a small subset of people having their voices drowned out - we're talking about a whole country.[/QUOTE] Someone else linked to a poll where the yes and no sides (with regards to whether the UK should stay in the EU) are separated by 7%. According to [url=https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3131/Scots-want-EU-referendum-but-would-vote-to-stay-in.aspx]this page[/url] 53% of Scots would vote to stay in the EU, with 36% against. While that is definitely a strong majority, it isn't extremely far from the overall UK stance (36% vs 43% to leave, 53% vs 37% to stay), though there are less undecided people. I must admit that I find it frustrating that a majority of UK residents would want to leave the EU, and I can see it being even more frustrating for you, but I think it's unfair to say that the England is just pulling Scotland around and you have no weight at all. And Copenhagen makes up about 10% of the overall Danish population (depends on where you put the city limits), so Copenhagen is similar to Scotland in that regard. Edit: should probably have updated. If we go by the polls on the last page, England is actually pretty close to Scotland when it comes to EU support.

With regards to the earlier poll that showed 35% in favour and 43% in support: It is based of a YouGov poll: [url]http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/e94v83thrn/RedBoxResults_141028_EU_referendum_immigration-Website.pdf[/url] The key thing to consider whilst looking at this particular poll is that the number of 'Don't know' significantly increased compared to their previous poll (5% to 16%). What this did was make the results more skewed as people who say 'Don't know' generally vote to stay in (as shown by previous polls). So the data provided by Ipsos MORI is more likely to be accurate than the YouGov poll. Also looking at the results there are more conservative, older respondents than other demographics which might have had an effect on the results (I know it is weighted out but it will still have an effect). YouGov is another polling company but they do not specialise in politics like Ipsos do - so I am more inclined to trust Ipsos than YouGov. [QUOTE=GoDong-DK;46398470] Edit: should probably have updated. If we go by the polls on the last page, England is actually pretty close to Scotland when it comes to EU support.[/QUOTE] Indeed: London supports staying in the EU by a similar margin to Scotland. London: 66% Scotland: 60%

[QUOTE=Baron von Hax;46394866][quote=Swineflu] K.[/quote] [quote=Swineflu] That's not an argument[/quote][/QUOTE] Nothing to argue with a guy that doesn't make arguments in the first place. Use that brain of yours

I love how people are saying this is a good thing. Merkel has absolutely embarrassed Cameron.

[QUOTE]Ban migrants who do not have a job, and to deport those who are unable to support themselves after three months.[/QUOTE] But that's a ban on the poor or the misfortunate. Keeping poor people in the status quo of their existence through policies like this is not gonna make everybody else better off. It's discrimination based on individuals' wealth. That's why the EU has funds for regional projects in areas less developed, like Wales. The reasoning is that by providing capital for funding small&medium companies, EU&govt's get a return on their investment through taxation of proffits, VAT, employees and so on. I'm really worried about what the true motives for such policies are, because they're deffinetly not economic. Immigration deffinetly does not, by and large make an already wealthy state or its people worse off. Yeah, it's easy to point fingers at immigrant bums on the street and say "AHA" ; people who are struggling or didn't succeed stand out from the croud. One in Thousands might have been unfortunate, and for that one bad apple, we must discard all fresh ones? Then, when immigrants have jobs, you'd hear the classical "stealing our jobs" ... so one way or the other you can't have it right. Freedom of trade without freedom of migration should not be permitted in the 21st century, otherwise you're implying that an IKEA chair has more movement rights than humans. Simply said, some people have issues with poor migrants(aka ex commie), or ethnically different migrants of different color,language, clothing tradition w/e inside the EU& Schengen. But look past those prejudices, and let everyone be a winner from the situation. Foreign investors won bargain contracts on former communist enterprises,built new businesses in energy distribution, retail sales, IT&com, mining; won the freedom to open up branches everywhere in europe and they sure as heck seized on the opportunity..Capital was running in short suply post communism, middle class people barely making ends meet. It was a gold rush for affluent people both home and abroad though; good on them. Multinationals won incredible privileges, tax cuts, non-repayable financing from the state (even now it's still a thing, attracting FDI) So far so good. But suddenly when some people start migrating for economic reasons, it's suddenly an issue...why?What happened to human rights, like the right to the pursuit of happniess or w/e. It's even more worrying that borders were only erected and stronly imposed after WW2 in europe. Before that, you could move freely in europe. Do we now want to get parranoid again? See enemies where there are none? [editline]3rd November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Baron von Hax;46394443]Erm, they're not forking out £1.7 bil.[/QUOTE] First off that's a business issue of the govt's themselves. Second, that's penny change compared to the govt's coffers. Third, if you feel like you are ripped off, you should think about how you are taxed, that's what matters most to you. 50% wage tax and 25% VAT amongst a bunch of other taxes for the common individual with a regular job and a family is totally cool. So is evading corporate taxation in the city of london, gibraltar, jersey, guernsey, cayman, bermuda etc. The only event that's getting me to the point of saying <that's it, no more!> is the EU's 2bn$ bill. [editline]3rd November 2014[/editline] One thing that I'm learning from this is how well slice by slice tactics and under the table deals&policies work. Then, it's how people ride on the wave so foolishly. It's the UK's worsening relations with the EU that is the issue, not a petty bill, that's the screen. This might be a long shoot, so take it with big grains of salt, but I suspect UK is having a memory relapse of the[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_System"] continental system[/URL]. One way of countering it looks like it showing that it has the option of battling it by strenghtening ties with the commonwealth + cooling down on EU relations. It [I]implies[/I] that it can/will do it under certain circumstances. Doesn't necessarly mean it will do so. Right now, they're prolly aiming at ~50% slit of the public oppinion on the matter of EU relations. Depending on the [I]circumstances[/I] they can sway that oppinion one way or the other by proffiting off events like the ones with the 2bn$ bill.

[QUOTE=MachiniOs;46398950]I love how people are saying this is a good thing. Merkel has absolutely embarrassed Cameron.[/QUOTE] It's Cameron's fault. He tried to walk a tightrope between being Pro EU in a time where the British electorate is doubting a continuing British presence in the Union. He has only found his manhood in time for the general election next year, which after years of showing support for the EU sounds hollow. The euroskeptics don't believe him, the EU is brushing him aside, and it makes him look foolish.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;46397794]I think it's a bit shit Scotland will likely get dragged out of the eu by England just because the independence no vote won by 5%. We aren't actually getting a say in the UK in/out referendum because we're so small.[/QUOTE] I had a hunch that a part of the referendum was about that; changing camps from UK to EU. It might have been highly anticipated by scot politicians in favor of independence that UK will exit EU.Even by failing, the existance of the referendum in the first place showed that Scotland has the wild card of crossing England if it chooses to do so. Wales and North Ireland on the other hand do not look like having the guts to take a different stance than England.

[QUOTE=godfatherk;46399703]I had a hunch that a part of the referendum was about that; changing camps from UK to EU. It might have been highly anticipated by scot politicians in favor of independence that UK will exit EU.Even by failing, the existance of the referendum in the first place showed that Scotland has the wild card of crossing England if it chooses to do so. Wales and North Ireland on the other hand do not look like having the guts to take a different stance than England.[/QUOTE] Yes I've been telling people (since May) that the timeline would be something like this: Indy ref - > No Vote - > Tory, UKIP, <misc> coalition - > In/out EU referendum - > Scotland votes "stay in".

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;46398426]They should still not be counted as looking for a job because they don't need one. In fact, they're denying jobs to people who do, just because "they're bored". This is really going against your point of view more than for it.[/QUOTE] At what point did i co-relate either of those 2 posts? Furthermore where did I give my opinion in outside of wanting the Australian migration laws.

[QUOTE=Srillo;46394520]Might not be a bad idea to bail on the EU, it's rapidly turning into Japan. Low inflation, high youth unemployment, no growth, complete stagnation across all core markets with no signs of change coming.[/QUOTE] Pardon my economics ignorance but isn't low inflation good?