European goal to eliminate measles by 2015 will likely fail; you can guess why. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45865006]If you want to refuse to vaccinate your child, it means you are willfully putting your child in danger, thus it's likely you lack the responsibility to take proper care of it anyway.[/QUOTE] [img]http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2009/05/09/1225710/593855-daryl-norris-skydives-with-his-son-jay.jpg[/img] Take him away! [img]http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/646x430/g_j/horse_child_girl_cnt_22mar11_istock_b.jpg[/img] The state sees all, the state knows all, the state owns all! [img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Late_offers/pictures/2010/8/13/1281693154578/Children-in-car-006.jpg[/img] Good Lord, this is worse than if the parents were UKIP voters!

[img]http://i.imgur.com/eyl9jeF.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;45864852]It's not just autism though, most of the people that don't get their children vaccinated are hardcore christians.[/QUOTE] You're thinking of Christian Scientists, the kinda people who'll try to pray away little Timbo's smallpox instead of getting proper help. Even as a Christian I think they're a joke.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45870413][img]http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2009/05/09/1225710/593855-daryl-norris-skydives-with-his-son-jay.jpg[/img] Take him away! [img]http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/646x430/g_j/horse_child_girl_cnt_22mar11_istock_b.jpg[/img] The state sees all, the state knows all, the state owns all! [img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Late_offers/pictures/2010/8/13/1281693154578/Children-in-car-006.jpg[/img] Good Lord, this is worse than if the parents were UKIP voters![/QUOTE] All of these things have proper safety procedures and equipment that significantly lessen the danger, and almost non-existent in the case of skydiving. As long as everyone involved follows the safety guide, these are all generally safe activities. If a parent skipped any bit of the safety stuff in any of these, they would have their children taken away. So why should refusing to get you're child vaccinated be any different when it can leave your child at major risk of becoming dangerously ill and possibly even dead? Not to mention that they could get other people sick if the virus mutated, as stated by other people here.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45870413] Take him away! The state sees all, the state knows all, the state owns all! Good Lord, this is worse than if the parents were UKIP voters![/QUOTE] If everyone were to do mildly dangerous things like that, they would all have a mildly greater risk. If everyone were to forgo vaccines, everyone would have a massively increased risk that threatens millions of people's lives. Not giving vaccines to children threatens that child, the children they come into contact with, and moves society closer to the critical level where the infection rate explodes.

Hang on, in America vaccination isn't required, and even then, people actually choose NOT to have their children vaccinated? LOL what utter fucktards. They should have their children taken away.

[QUOTE=Meladath;45872287]Hang on, in America vaccination isn't required, and even then, people actually choose NOT to have their children vaccinated? LOL what utter fucktards. They should have their children taken away.[/QUOTE] Britain is just as bad about it. Ask Scotland how their anti-vax crowdis doing. And don't try to say Scotland doesnt count. The refferendum hasnt passed yet.

I liked getting vaccinated when I was a kid. I imagined they made me some sort of superhuman badass immune to what nature throws at me. Which to some extent was actually true, the imagination of me as a child was running free however :v:

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45870413][img]http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2009/05/09/1225710/593855-daryl-norris-skydives-with-his-son-jay.jpg[/img] Take him away! [img]http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/646x430/g_j/horse_child_girl_cnt_22mar11_istock_b.jpg[/img] The state sees all, the state knows all, the state owns all! [img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Late_offers/pictures/2010/8/13/1281693154578/Children-in-car-006.jpg[/img] Good Lord, this is worse than if the parents were UKIP voters![/QUOTE] Spotted the wacko [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] I mean I already knew Lazyguy was a wacko but I didn't expect him to be an anti-vaccer as well whatever

[QUOTE=Meladath;45872287]Hang on, in America vaccination isn't required, and even then, people actually choose NOT to have their children vaccinated? LOL what utter fucktards. They should have their children taken away.[/QUOTE] It's not legally required, but afaik most schools won't let children attend if they don't get certain vaccinations. Still pretty bad, but it could be worse.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45865006]If you want to refuse to vaccinate your child, it means you are willfully putting your child in danger, thus it's likely you lack the responsibility to take proper care of it anyway.[/QUOTE] And it's not just your child you're putting at risk when you do this: some kids can't get vaccinated and for others the vaccine occasionally doesn't take. We need herd immunity or it defeats the whole point of vaccines.

These people make me sick. Maybe they'd like to go back to the time of Polio and Smallpox? I'm sure that would [B]quickly[/B] change their mind. (Baring in mind that those times weren't that long ago, well within several current generations.)

[QUOTE=Jacen;45872169]All of these things have proper safety procedures and equipment that significantly lessen the danger, and almost non-existent in the case of skydiving. As long as everyone involved follows the safety guide, these are all generally safe activities. If a parent skipped any bit of the safety stuff in any of these, they would have their children taken away. So why should refusing to get you're child vaccinated be any different when it can leave your child at major risk of becoming dangerously ill and possibly even dead? Not to mention that they could get other people sick if the virus mutated, as stated by other people here.[/QUOTE] [url]http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih1/diseases/activities/activity5_measles-database.htm[/url] [quote]From 1958 to 1962 [The year before the vaccine was invented], the United States had an average of 503,282 cases and 432 deaths each year.[/quote] [url=http://www.saferoads.org/federal/2004/TrafficFatalities1899-2003.pdf]In those same years, there were an average of 36644 road deaths. The numbers have only increased.[/url] Take all the safety precautions you want, when you put your kid in a car you're much more likely to kill them than if you don't inoculate them. [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45872423]Spotted the wacko [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] I mean I already knew Lazyguy was a wacko but I didn't expect her to be an anti-vaccer as well whatever[/QUOTE] Hey I was vaccinated and I'd get my kids vaccinated, but when I see people talking about how people's children should be taken away I shan't stand for that. If that makes me a whacko, so be it.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45872827][url]http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih1/diseases/activities/activity5_measles-database.htm[/url] [url=http://www.saferoads.org/federal/2004/TrafficFatalities1899-2003.pdf]In those same years, there were an average of 36644 road deaths. The numbers have only increased.[/url] Take all the safety precautions you want, when you put your kid in a car you're much more likely to kill them than if you don't inoculate them. [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] Hey I was vaccinated and I'd get my kids vaccinated, but when I see people talking about how people's children should be taken away I shan't stand for that. If that makes me a whacko, so be it.[/QUOTE] Using a car is determinant to get to places. Refusing a vaccine is determinant to... uhh... umm...

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45872827][url]http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih1/diseases/activities/activity5_measles-database.htm[/url] [url=http://www.saferoads.org/federal/2004/TrafficFatalities1899-2003.pdf]In those same years, there were an average of 36644 road deaths. The numbers have only increased.[/url] Take all the safety precautions you want, when you put your kid in a car you're much more likely to kill them than if you don't inoculate them. [editline]2nd September 2014[/editline] Hey I was vaccinated and I'd get my kids vaccinated, but when I see people talking about how people's children should be taken away I shan't stand for that. If that makes me a whacko, so be it.[/QUOTE] Smallpox killed between 300-500 million people in the 20th century alone. Thanks to vaccines, smallpox will no longer be an issue. Sure, it may be cruel to take kids away from their parents for not vaccinating their children, but it's arguably better than suffering and potentially dying from a disease (and then passing that suffering onto others)

[QUOTE=Megadave;45864883]Say whatever the fuck you will to me, but taking children away from people who don't vaccinate is fucking cruel. Not that I agree with them, but ripping children away from parents who care for their kids besides vaccinations will only hurt the cause.[/QUOTE] When you're deliberately exposing your children to deadly diseases you've lost the right to say you care about them. Also even though it's not mandatory to be vaccinated here in the US, you generally need it to attend schools, although that sadly often just provokes anti-vaccers to homeschool their kids and feed them whatever propaganda they want.

[QUOTE=Megadave;45864883]Say whatever the fuck you will to me, but taking children away from people who don't vaccinate is fucking cruel. Not that I agree with them, but ripping children away from parents who care for their kids besides vaccinations will only hurt the cause.[/QUOTE] So either give the child to parents who actually care about the child's well-being or keep them in a family where they can die a horrible and painful death that is 100% avoidable. man this is like one of those socratic exercises i dont know which one to pick

I've gotten into heated debates with people about Vaccinations. I, am generally skeptical of Vaccinations. Not because they 'cause Autism' or anything like that. No. Like the Penn and Teller video showcases, they have made enormous strides in public health through Vaccinations. They're an achievement to modern medicine. What I DON'T like, is the quality control. Twice in my family someone has had a nasty reaction to vaccinations. A cousin of mine broke out in horrible hives and became incredible sick after he received a Flu vaccination. Why? Because the processing facility failed to balance the solution and ensure all off the phages (Viruses) were dead. How many other patients suffered (or worse) because of the negligence? He'd have had less trouble if he just got the Flu and stayed home for a couple days. When Vaccinations become mass-produced to be distributed to the populous, quality control becomes more difficult, and when finances and profit are involved- the risk for error jumps even higher. I don't wan to see Vaccinations disappear or anything like that, but i WOULD like better testing and quality control to ensure the vaccines are ACTUALLY doing their job. Not the opposite.

[QUOTE=EXPLOOOSIONS!;45872916]Smallpox killed between 300-500 million people in the 20th century alone. Thanks to vaccines, smallpox will no longer be an issue. Sure, it may be cruel to take kids away from their parents for not vaccinating their children, but it's arguably better than suffering and potentially dying from a disease (and then passing that suffering onto others)[/QUOTE] Again, measles killed many fewer people than this thread seem to believe. I'm not arguing against vaccines, I'm arguing against the state taking children away.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45870413][img]http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2009/05/09/1225710/593855-daryl-norris-skydives-with-his-son-jay.jpg[/img] Take him away! [img]http://cdni.condenast.co.uk/646x430/g_j/horse_child_girl_cnt_22mar11_istock_b.jpg[/img] The state sees all, the state knows all, the state owns all! [img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Late_offers/pictures/2010/8/13/1281693154578/Children-in-car-006.jpg[/img] Good Lord, this is worse than if the parents were UKIP voters![/QUOTE] don't have kids pls

I'm allergic to all the vaccines except for this one tetanus booster they don't have where I live (i'm only mildly allergic to it)

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45877603]Know what happens if you're a jackass during any of those activities? Your kids die. Know what happens if your a jackass and your kid gets an easily preventable communicable disease? Your kid dies, and they spread it to other kids, who also get sick and potentially die. I don't give a shit about your opinion on "raising a family", there should be absolutely no exemptions to vaccinating a child, short of a legitimate medical allergy to the vaccine. It takes literally 10 minutes, and can save your kids life, if you're against it then you shouldn't have kids.[/QUOTE] 1) I'm not against it 2) Again, a cursory glance at the statistics will tell you that getting into a car is much more likely to both kill you and make you a killer than not being vaccinated, no matter how well you can drive. 3) It's not your place to tell me whether or not to have kids

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45878043]1) I'm not against it 2) Again, a cursory glance at the statistics will tell you that getting into a car is much more likely to both kill you and make you a killer than not being vaccinated, no matter how well you can drive. 3) It's not your place to tell me whether or not to have kids[/QUOTE] Why are you comparing mundane activity with actual purpose and unavoidable risk to willfully avoiding safety measures to something else? Besides, the chance your kids die from all of these illnesses are only thanks to majority of people already being vaccinated. You make completely no sense. And as you display quite critical lapses in your logical thinking, yes, it's advisable for you to not to have children because it would probably end badly for everyone involved.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45878043]1) I'm not against it 2) Again, a cursory glance at the statistics will tell you that getting into a car is much more likely to both kill you and make you a killer than not being vaccinated, no matter how well you can drive. 3) It's not your place to tell me whether or not to have kids[/QUOTE] 2) That's because now people aren't retarded and vaccinate against, for example, MEASLES, so that instead of 3-4 million of the US population being infected per year, you have 55 cases reported in 2012 Vaccinations also protect those morons who don't vaccinate, whether they like it or not.

I've already demonstrated that even before the measles vaccine, automobiles were vastly more dangerous than measles. Purpose or no, putting a child in a car is orders of magnitude more dangerous than not vaccinating them. [editline]3rd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=EcksDee;45878344]2) That's because now people aren't retarded and vaccinate against, for example, MEASLES, so that instead of 3-4 million of the US population being infected per year, you have 55 cases reported in 2012 Vaccinations also protect those morons who don't vaccinate, whether they like it or not.[/QUOTE] [quote]From 1958 to 1962 [B][The year before the vaccine was invented][/B], the United States had an average of 503,282 cases and 432 deaths each year.[/quote]

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45878346]I've already demonstrated that even before the measles vaccine, automobiles were vastly more dangerous than measles. Purpose or no, putting a child in a car is orders of magnitude more dangerous than not vaccinating them. [editline]3rd September 2014[/editline][/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/meas.html#vaccines[/URL] [img]http://i.imgur.com/hksCh8w.png[/img]

500 deaths per year That's 1/50th of the number of road deaths in the same time frame. I've already posted this.

[QUOTE=lazyguy;45878390]500 deaths per year That's 1/50th of the number of road deaths in the same time frame. I've already posted this.[/QUOTE] Are you sure? ~200 million drivers in the US, Wiki says deaths per capita is about 10 people per 100 000. If we take your statistic of 500 000 with 500 deaths, you have a death rate per capita of 100 per 100 000. Take the 3-4 mil per year and the number is much lower, though those are estimated numbers worked out with math and not recorded cases.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45864818]In Czech Republic, the vaccination for measles, diphtheria, whooping cough and other fun stuff (total of 9 illnesses) is completely obligatory unless doctor says otherwise (usually only in cases of allergy) and parents who refuse are usually probated by social workers and the children can be taken away. Once you want to live in an actual society, you might as well not put others in danger just because you think you know better than doctors in completely proven and decades old knowledge.[/QUOTE] Most of Eastern Europe is like this

[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;45864852]It's not just autism though, most of the people that don't get their children vaccinated are hardcore christians.[/QUOTE] Wow you're fucking thick Blame it on religion people, you can never go wrong amirite