France's 75% tax rate approved by top court after revisions
513 replies, posted
[QUOTE=kuydna;43380393]I'm trying to get the conversation back ontrack after someone derailed it in order to whine about dumb ratings. Someone has allowed a personal grudge to develop that they need to take elsewere. Review the last few pages carefully.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=hexpunK;43379352]
Ahaha oh wow you actually went out of your way to rate a post of mine in the programming forum dumb? You truly are a petty little man.
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6003122/fuckingidiot.PNG[/t][/QUOTE]
this is hilariously sad
[QUOTE=Valnar;43380375]Kuydna, I feel really sorry for you.
Your mentality would be funny, if not for the fact that so many people believe it.
You completely ignore the issues that a capitalist system has.
Nobody, or almost nobody, has been advocating a complete dismissal of the capitalism economy, rather changing it so that there is a safety net for people in poverty.
[/QUOTE]
and people are justified to that opinion as well as the opposite, no? At any point is resorting to abuse a good idea?
[QUOTE]One of these problems which has been iterated over and over that you don't seem to get is that hard work will never ever ever move you up in social class.
It may be necessary, but it is never the reason why someone moves up in social class and very rarely the case how people move out of poverty.
[/QUOTE]
I've already agreed with that, several pages ago. Hard work is just one of many components.
[QUOTE]Opportunities are the only way to move up in social classes. Opportunities can include things like, having the time to get an education, not being in some sort of accident and even getting the right job.[/QUOTE]
People can't make their own opportunities? People are completely crippled and have to accept the fate life dealt them at birth?
[QUOTE]There is no way of guaranteeing you get the right opportunities you need if you are poor, and that is one of the major problems in economies.[/QUOTE]
This is what I meant about weakness. No matter how hard it gets, fight back. Why have such a defeatist attitude?
[QUOTE]But you haven't listened to any of this throughout the thread and now are practically flaming people.[/QUOTE]
Nope, they're flaming me. Any flaming I did was in retaliation.
I'd really prefer to get back to this topic.
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=DeEz;43380448]this is hilariously sad[/QUOTE]
Someone can't read can they?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
The battlecry of the entitled hard-left: "We don't like the message, so let's attack the messenger"
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
Hey I've got an idea for all the people on here who think 75% is a good idea. Petition Garry to retroactively pay at that rate - not to charity, where he can atleast decide who deserves it, but to the state, regardless of whether or not they decide to piss it away on red tape, wars, dolescum etc.
Petition him. Let's see if he agrees. Also, speak down to him if he resists, the way you've spoken down on this thread. Let's see what happens. Go on. Stand by the courage of your convictions.
We're never going to solve the homeless/unemployment crises as long as we live in materialistic societies that put more value on money and property than it does on the welfare of its citizens.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43380627]We're never going to solve the homeless/unemployment crises as long as we live in materialistic societies that put more value on money and property than it does on the welfare of its citizens.[/QUOTE]
"But if the homeless and unemployed just pulled themselves up and stopped being such fucking defeatist communists, they could be earning a six figure salary RIGHT NOW."
Man, you should seriously stop rating unrelated posts dumb to make yourself feel better.
This makes three posts of mine as of now, and god knows how many posts of others you've done the same for.
Like I really don't give a shit what's "yours" or what you "own", we have the capability to make sure everyone in society can at least live a decently comfortable life and we're not going to do it because of some stupid "everyone needs bootstraps" mentality?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
This romanticized view of "hard work will get you success" is just not applicable in real life.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43380697]Like I really don't give a shit what's "yours" or what you "own", we have the capability to make sure everyone in society can at least live a decently comfortable life and we're not going to do it because of some stupid "everyone needs bootstraps" mentality?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
This romanticized view of "hard work will get you success" is just not applicable in real life.[/QUOTE]
Being successful truly comes down to knowing people and sheer luck.
Windows didn't make it big because it was good, it made it big because Gate's mother had connections at IBM.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;43380258]What even started this whole "omg hex is ill" thing off for you? Nothing I've posted hints at mental illness, and if you are literally doing it to try and get a rise out of me you're probably a sociopath, and well, that explains a lot really.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty damn sure that there were some research done that showed that the stereotypical money hoarding company executive actually were downright sociopathic.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43380627]We're never going to solve the homeless/unemployment crises as long as we live in materialistic societies that put more value on money and property than it does on the welfare of its citizens.[/QUOTE]
You solve unemployment and homelessness with employment.
You get employment by having something to offer - skills, education etc.
When that's not enough, like increasingly now, then you need to get more skills and education.
It's not easy, but it's not impossible either.
Start a business?
Take a 2nd job?
Be more conservative with expenses? People buy so much useless shit they don't need.
I don't get this, "we can only work 35 hours a week", what are people doing with the rest of their time? If people have the time to watch crap on TV or come in here and argue then they have time to do something productive.
A few times it's been mentioned how redistribution would automatically provide a boost to retail spending, yeah probably, but are they buying things made domestically? Or just loads more "Made in China" stuff?
There's also the distinction between a completely dog-eat-dog capitalist society, and 75% taxes, on anyone - isn't 75% taking it to far to the other extreme?
Is it a certainty that governments will use any extra money they use productively? Look what happened with the Obamacare website? Look at all the money spent fighting dubious wars.
Then there's the practicality of heavily-taxing the wealthy; they leave the country, they hide their assets, send them offshore, try to meddle in the political process, become less enterprising.
Maybe tax unhealthy things at 75%. Things you're trying to discourage, like smoking, but small businesses? 1m+ a year isn't so much these days. There are something like 3 million millionaires in the US, of about 10m worldwide, a million or 2 isn't such an amazing amount anymore. People make it sound like these people are priviledged, lucky or just inherited the money. But the vast majority are self-made, worked hard, not some crusty blue-bood old-money types.
AND, in addition to this, we're in a global economy. We need to compete with other nations. One of the ways we compete is by having lower taxes, which attracts foreign investment (look at the boom Ireland experienced in the 90's thanks to ridiculously low corporate tax), it also encourages money to stay in the country.
How can we compete if we send the world a message that we're anti-business?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;43380678]Man, you should seriously stop rating unrelated posts dumb to make yourself feel better.
This makes three posts of mine as of now, and god knows how many posts of others you've done the same for.[/QUOTE]
Why do you care what people rate your posts?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Stopper;43380668]they could be earning a six figure salary RIGHT NOW."[/QUOTE]
Way to paraphrase.
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;43380733]Being successful truly comes down to knowing people and sheer luck.
Windows didn't make it big because it was good, it made it big because Gate's mother had connections at IBM.[/QUOTE]
I kinda agree about Gates (although I think you're thinking of DOS not Windows), but who did Garry or Notch know?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43380754]I'm pretty damn sure that there were some research done that showed that the stereotypical money hoarding company executive actually were downright sociopathic.[/QUOTE]
What about the people who will build the vaults in which every single rich person on Earth keeps all their money under their moat-encircled mansions? What about the people who mine the metals for the vaults? *jk*
[QUOTE=kuydna;43378894]And like a typical left-wing extremist you resort to personal insults whenever you don't get your way, at least I've kept it civilized the whole time, apart from my TL;DR comment to Hexpunk for which I apologize for.
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
Here's something I think you and a lot of other people on here will probably like :)
[video=youtube;_sxTbfeYdO0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sxTbfeYdO0[/video][/QUOTE]
Holy fuck is this person real
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43380697]Like I really don't give a shit what's "yours" or what you "own", we have the capability to make sure everyone in society can at least live a decently comfortable life and we're not going to do it because of some stupid "everyone needs bootstraps" mentality?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
This romanticized view of "hard work will get you success" is just not applicable in real life.[/QUOTE]
Hard-work, tenacity, being smart, and doing it consitently, not expecting overnight results.
Even if it doesn't get you rich, are these things going to harm you?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;43380871]Holy fuck is this person real[/QUOTE]
"Think by now guys this confirms this person is a troll".
[QUOTE=kuydna;43380881]Hard-work, tenacity, being smart, and doing it consitently, not expecting overnight results.
Even if it doesn't get you rich, are these things going to harm you?[/QUOTE]
So does everyone who isn't smart enough to become rich deserve to suffer and live paycheck to paycheck, or become homeless and not be able to work their way out, as punishment for not being smart? Every single post you make, in response to the fact that under your ideals millions of poor people will suffer, basically says "Well if you didn't SUCK maybe you'd be RICH!"
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=kuydna;43380881]"Think by now guys this confirms this person is a troll".[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43380781]
Maybe tax unhealthy things at 75%. Things you're trying to discourage, like smoking, but small businesses? 1m+ a year isn't so much these days. There are something like 3 million millionaires in the US, of about 10m worldwide, a million or 2 isn't such an amazing amount anymore.[/quote]
A millionaire is not someone who earns a million dollars a year, it is someone's whose assets are valued over a million dollars. Obviously, this includes quite the larger groups, as many years adds up to give you a net value to qualify you as a millionaire. Their income is taxed, not their current possessions and assets. Say for a minute I move to France sitting on a trillion dollars worth of stuff and money. Then I go work at a supermarket for minimum wage. I'll be being taxed my current salary, not the fact that I have a trillion.
[quote]
AND, in addition to this, we're in a global economy. We need to compete with other nations. One of the ways we compete is by having lower taxes, which attracts foreign investment (look at the boom Ireland experienced in the 90's thanks to ridiculously low corporate tax), it also encourages money to stay in the country.
How can we compete if we send the world a message that we're anti-business?
[/quote]
And why do you think France has a ~33% or lower corporate tax. This whole deal with the 75% tax is only for individuals who have an income of one million euros or more in the course of a year.
If you use society's population and services as a springboard to get a shit ton of money then you also put a shit ton of money back into the system. This is not a difficult concept, nor is it "unfair" or "punishing success." You didn't get rich on your own, it's a mutual relationship.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;43380917]So does everyone who isn't smart enough to become rich deserve to suffer and work paycheck to paycheck, [/QUOTE]
It's just the way the cookie crumbles.
I'd say to them; don't give up, fight back, "bootstraps bootstraps bootstraps" :)
And look, Kanye West is rich, Jessica Simpson, etc etc, what does that tell you?
[QUOTE]or become homeless and not be able to work their way out, as punishment for not being smart? [/QUOTE]
Maybe they can make a good middle-class income, or find something that despite paying shit is at least tolerable.
Dependency makes people weak, what don't people understand about that?
Look at Detroit or most of the north of England. Leftists ruined both, they allowed a culture of dependency and laziness to develop, where no-one has to take responsibility for their actions or inactions. Murder someone? Judge: "Here, fuck my daughter and have this nice cake I baked". Get pregnant at 18, no problem, live off the state. CBA looking for a job, no problem, have some benefits and enjoy your free time standing outside the betting shop all day. It's a fucking disaster.
[QUOTE]Every single post you make, in response to the fact that under your ideals millions of poor people will suffer, basically says "Well if you didn't SUCK maybe you'd be RICH!"[/QUOTE]
It'll make them stronger in the long run.
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kuydna;43379907]EDIT: take some anger management courses, find a good psychiatrist or something. You can't spaz out just because you get ratings you don't like. Notice how no-one else in here is getting upset about ratings?[/QUOTE]
Meanwhile, earlier on the same page...
[QUOTE=kuydna;43379324]Yeah because your posts are overflowing with "Winner" and "Agrees"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kuydna;43379397]They're your buddies or fellow lefties.[/QUOTE]
If you're not a troll and wondering why people think you're a troll, this is it. Not because of your right wing libertarian opinions, because a lot of people have those, and not because you're acting like a child, because a lot of people do that. It's because of your incredible lack of self-awareness, to the point where it looks like you're being intentionally ironic.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43380969]If you use society's population and services as a springboard to get a shit ton of money then you also put a shit ton of money back into the system. This is not a difficult concept, nor is it "unfair" or "punishing success." You didn't get rich on your own, it's a mutual relationship.[/QUOTE]
Please explain how someone like Notch did this? How did he springboard society's services and population? Assuming he's self-taught especially.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43380969]If you use society's population and services as a springboard to get a shit ton of money then you also put a shit ton of money back into the system. This is not a difficult concept, nor is it "unfair" or "punishing success." You didn't get rich on your own, it's a mutual relationship.[/QUOTE]
There is no such thing as "self success" unless you live on a remote island by yourself with no outside influence. Society makes you successful, you used the resources provided by the state, you pay it back. You'd ask anyone who used your resources to pay you, why is this any different?
Not that 75% is massively reasonable, but tiered taxing is totally fair, you cannot expect the lower classes to take a high taxation, they literally cannot afford it unless the state also provides free housing and utilities.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43380994]
It'll make them stronger in the long run.[/QUOTE]
Your "suffering will just make you stronger in the long run" makes me think either you've never been truly homeless, or you were homeless for an EXTREMELY short amount of time.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;43381007]Meanwhile, earlier on the same page...
I wasn't getting upset about ratings, I genuinelly don't care - well, I only care in as much as people actually believe this left-wing stuff they're saying on here, but I don't take it personally unlike a few other people have.
If you're not a troll and wondering why people think you're a troll, this is it. Not because of your right wing libertarian opinions, because a lot of people have those, and not because you're acting like a child, because a lot of people do that. It's because of your incredible lack of self-awareness, to the point where it looks like you're being intentionally ironic.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381013]Please explain how someone like Notch did this? How did he springboard society's services and population? Assuming he's self-taught especially.[/QUOTE]
To gain knowledge he would have attended public schooling (considering his background). To live he would be used public healthcare services, water and waste services. To communicate, nationalised communication networks (to connect to the Internet).
His success? Literally dumb luck that people noticed Minecraft. There's nothing else to it, he wasn't even trying to make a successful game, he just got lucky (and will admit that himself).
i hate people who think taxes should be abolished, how else do you expect a government to provide services, and I hate people who think the government shouldn't provide services because we pay taxes for them!
[IMG]http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2010/09/20/PAR3465250_4966255-9a0f06bb23d9a52f4b8fab0c7a54c92df4a36837-s6-c30.jpg[/IMG]
this man swam across the english channel and hes a quadriplegic man
therefore, any other quadriplegic people trying to claim swimming across the english channel is too 'difficult' or 'too hard' are lazy bastards who can't choose their fate!!
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;43381032]Your "suffering will just make you stronger in the long run" makes me think either you've never been truly homeless, or you were homeless for an EXTREMELY short amount of time.[/QUOTE]
Technically a year.
And suffering is something our ancestors had a much greater threshold for, I had to adapt to it right across life, I'm fucking bulletproof now.
You can't deny that Western society has become pussified?
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381013]Please explain how someone like Notch did this? How did he springboard society's services and population? Assuming he's self-taught especially.[/QUOTE]
"This specific middle class person with a support system became rich all by himself, therefore no one should need help and everyone should be able to work and think their way out of poverty all by themselves."
You're starting to sound like the people who say institutional racism doesn't exist because a half black man became president.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;43381058][IMG]http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2010/09/20/PAR3465250_4966255-9a0f06bb23d9a52f4b8fab0c7a54c92df4a36837-s6-c30.jpg[/IMG]
this man swam across the english channel and hes a quadriplegic man
therefore, any other quadriplegic people trying to claim swimming across the english channel is too 'difficult' or 'too hard' are lazy bastards who can't choose their fate!![/QUOTE]
You made that point several pages ago :)
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381069]You can't deny that Western society has become pussified?[/QUOTE]
Oh god. It's like I've fallen into a /r/redpill hole and can't get out.
Anyone who uses this description of western society should be shot into the sun.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381089]You made that point several pages ago :)[/QUOTE]
yeah then you replied with 'slight exaggeration' and went nowhere with it
probably cause it flips your logic upside down
cause its dumb
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;43381086]"This specific middle class person with a support system became rich all by himself, therefore no one should need help and everyone should be able to work and think their way out of poverty all by themselves."
You're starting to sound like the people who say institutional racism doesn't exist because a half black man became president.[/QUOTE]
Notch and Garry are both from-
In Garry's words, "working-class" background
and
In Notch's words, "very humble" background
I've got no reason to disbelieve them, have you?
What were the support systems they had?
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381069]And suffering is something our ancestors had a much greater threshold for, I had to adapt to it right across life, I'm fucking bulletproof now.[/QUOTE]
If you really went through true suffering you wouldn't be so incredibly arrogant.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.