France's 75% tax rate approved by top court after revisions
513 replies, posted
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381571]Poverty should be an INCENTIVE to do something. But no, in the West you can just fill in some paperwork and the taxman will help you out.[/quote]
[url=http://classonline.org.uk/docs/2013_Exposing_the_myths_of_welfare.pdf]First off, read this.[/url]
Secondly, let me give you a very real situation, because while poverty [I]is[/I] an incentive, that doesn't mean you can do anything about it. They are called poverty traps, but can factor in a whole host of problems, from medical to social. The working poor are often in these scenarios.
[quote]
As for crime, WTF, are you being raped everyday or robbed everyday? Are you on hard drugs? If so, whose fault is that? *facepalm*\.[/QUOTE] I'll ignore the part that sounds similar to victim blaming, but crime tends to be a symptom of poverty.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381615]Have you ever been the victim of crime? Did they saw off your limbs or something? How are you permanently harmed by it to the point you can't lift yourself up?[/QUOTE]
Now you are just being silly.
[QUOTE=DeEz;43381514]the amount of naivety on display here is staggering
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline][/QUOTE]
How else do you label a culture that celebrates dependency over independance? Where the state now accounts for half of GDP in many countries? Where people can't work more than 35 hours a week, religiously take all their breaks, want even more vacation time etc?
[QUOTE]can someone immortalize this brilliant quote
i literally cannot stop laughing[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381636]
Start a business / make your own job?
Get more education while you wait for job market to improve, and making yourself more employable at the same time?
How is wealth inequality, "severe"?[/QUOTE]
To start a business, you need money. You don't have money.
To get education, you need to sustain yourself. For that, you need money. You don't have money.
The only solution presented to these people: Get a low paying job just so you can survive.
What now?
Get a loan? What happens if you can't pay back your loan after your new business fails? You end up on the street. Do you think people with children or elderly can afford to take that risk? Do you think people CAN AFFORD to be entrepreneurs?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
And further more, what happens if you get an unforeseen circumstance? What happens if your car stops working one morning? Or if you fall down and break a leg? Or if your child needs surgery? Or if your roof leaks? What do you do when you barely have enough as it is?
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;43381712][url=http://classonline.org.uk/docs/2013_Exposing_the_myths_of_welfare.pdf]First off, read this.[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Sorry but I don't want to read anything from a site called, "Classonline" it sounds way to leftist.
[QUOTE]Secondly, let me give you a very real situation, because while poverty [I]is[/I] an incentive, that doesn't mean you can do anything about it. They are called poverty traps,
[/QUOTE]
You mean where it's not worth taking a low-paying job because the amount you can get on benefit? That's my understanding of the phrase, "poverty trap"....
[QUOTE]but can factor in a whole host of problems, from medical to social. The working poor are often in these scenarios.
I'll ignore the part that sounds similar to victim blaming, but crime tends to be a symptom of poverty.[/QUOTE]
And opportunism? Who forced those people to deal class A drugs? Who forced those people to get addicted to them?
Yeah if you're the victim of crime it's going to be upsetting, but how does it destroy you for life unless you get caught in the crossfire of some shootout or something :/
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381761]Sorry but I don't want to read anything from a site called, "Classonline" it sounds way to leftist.[/QUOTE]
If you investigate sources you can find amazing things. Such as "classonline" being the website of CLASS, the Centre for Labour and Social Studies. Not a site about class warfare. They do act as a place of debate for left leaning ideas, but assuming they aren't purposefully biasing the information they gather it should be fine.
For everyone posting documents. Just check the document is properly peer reviewed before posting it and you're good to go. The less you can use against each other to discredit each other the smoother this fucker of a thread progresses.
Denying to read resources from opposing ideologies is being intellectually dishonest and basically invalidates your points as you haven't substantiated them with anything and are basing them off personal experience or pre-existing bias.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381761]Sorry but I don't want to read anything from a site called, "Classonline" it sounds way to leftist.[/QUOTE]
Guy i think you should stop skipping school because you don't know how to argue.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381761]Sorry but I don't want to read anything from a site called, "Classonline" it sounds way to leftist.[/QUOTE]
I really like how you just straight out dismissed something because of the name, like without even looking at it.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381761]Sorry but I don't want to read anything from a site called, "Classonline" it sounds way to leftist.
You mean where it's not worth taking a low-paying job because the amount you can get on benefit? That's my understanding of the phrase, "poverty trap"....
And opportunism? Who forced those people to deal class A drugs? Who forced those people to get addicted to them?
Yeah if you're the victim of crime it's going to be upsetting, but how does it destroy you for life unless you get caught in the crossfire of some shootout or something :/[/QUOTE]
Careful when you browse Wikipedia, that's basically communism in itself.
No, poverty trap means having to buy $20 shoes fully knowing that they'll be ruined in 3 months, but not being able to afford $100 shoes which are obviously a better long-term investment. Sure, you know that $100 shoes will last 5 years, but you don't have $100 out of pocket. Why? Cause you need that money to eat. Notice, [I]NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD[/I]
Victim blaming is fun.
Yeah, you come home one day and your car, the only thing letting you commute to work, is missing. What do?
[QUOTE=Stopper;43381823]Yeah, you come home one day and your car, the only thing letting you commute to work, is missing. What do?[/QUOTE]
pull yourself up by your bootstraps and fly your way to work
[QUOTE=Stopper;43381736]To start a business, you need money. You don't have money.
To get education, you need to sustain yourself. For that, you need money. You don't have money.[/QUOTE]
Been through this already - you don't always need it, or not large amounts anyway.
[QUOTE]The only solution presented to these people: Get a low paying job just so you can survive.[/QUOTE]
And stay there forever?
[QUOTE]What now?[/QUOTE]
Escape?
[QUOTE]Get a loan? [/QUOTE]
Save?
Retain profits?
Venture capital?
Grants?
Yeah, or maybe a loan.
[QUOTE]What happens if you can't pay back your loan after your new business fails? [/QUOTE]
Don't fail.
Plan for that contingency.
[QUOTE]You end up on the street. Do you think people with children [/QUOTE]
Wait until having kids. No-one is forcing you to have them. Contraception is cheap and widely available.
[QUOTE]or elderly can afford to take that risk? Do you think people CAN AFFORD to be entrepreneurs?[/QUOTE]
lol who has elderly? Fuck 'em. They should have done something with their lives when they had the chance. It's someone elses's problem, and if they love you they wouldn't want to be a burden anyway.
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE]And further more, what happens if you get an unforeseen circumstance? What happens if your car stops working one morning? [/QUOTE]
Fix it.
Get a bike.
Use public transport.
Carpool.
Walk.
Don't let it break in the first place - by avoiding some shitty thing. Cheap is a false economy.
[QUOTE]Or if you fall down and break a leg? [/QUOTE]
Don't.
Get laptop or smartphone and work on that while you're recuperating.
Get and read books.
[QUOTE]Or if your child needs surgery? Or if your roof leaks? What do you do when you barely have enough as it is?[/QUOTE]
Borrow?
Get 2nd job? 3rd job if need be.
Try to get overtime?
>>>>> Be resilient. <<<<<<
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling, Shitposting, perhaps other things as well" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381835]lol who has elderly? Fuck 'em. They should have done something with their lives when they had the chance. It's someone elses's problem, and if they love you they wouldn't want to be a burden anyway.[/QUOTE]
Alright, troll confirmed.
[QUOTE=Valnar;43381821]I really like how you just straight out dismissed something because of the name, like without even looking at it.[/QUOTE]
OK, I looked at it, it's 16 pages - can you summarize it?
"Communism is good, capitalism is bad"? :> *jk*
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;43381846]Alright, troll confirmed.[/QUOTE]
How so? Who the fuck "has" elderly? Maybe relatives in nursing homes, but if they're on your side the last thing they want is you sending them all your money.
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;43381846]Alright, troll confirmed.[/QUOTE]
was confirmed several pages ago
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;43381834]pull yourself up by your bootstraps and fly your way to work[/QUOTE]
Troll confirmed.
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
"We can't argue with logical, valid points, so we'll attempt censorship"
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;43381813]Guy i think you should stop skipping school because you don't know how to argue.[/QUOTE]
I don't have the time to read 16 pages, sorry. Summarize it?
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381761]Sorry but I don't want to read anything from a site called, "Classonline" it sounds way to leftist.[/quote]
Yes sir-re, center for labour and social studies sounds way to leftist to hold and real value. And all the sources it must reference must be utter drivel.
[quote]You mean where it's not worth taking a low-paying job because the amount you can get on benefit? That's my understanding of the phrase, "poverty trap"....[/quote]
You obviously have spent a lot of time researching that, haven't you.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/s3cfwvq.png[/img]
Research the topic more instead of using a glossily simplified definition that can easily misinform people.
[quote]
And opportunism? Who forced those people to deal class A drugs? Who forced those people to get addicted to them?
Yeah if you're the victim of crime it's going to be upsetting, but how does it destroy you for life unless you get caught in the crossfire of some shootout or something :/[/QUOTE]
What would motivate sometone to steal something?
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381866]"We can't argue with logical, valid points, so we'll attempt censorship"[/QUOTE]
Stop this. There's no "censorship" going on in the thread. There's no "censorship" going on in any of the ideas people are putting forward at all.
Man, this guy is almost like the anti-yawnmen right? I wonder what would happen if we stuck them both in a box?
[QUOTE=hexpunK;43381913]Stop this. There's no "censorship" going on in the thread. There's no "censorship" going on in any of the ideas people are putting forward at all.
Man, this guy is almost like the anti-yawnmen right? I wonder what would happen if we stuck them both in a box?[/QUOTE]
Anti-matter reaction, we could easily have enough power to explore the stars.
[QUOTE=Stopper;43381823]Careful when you browse Wikipedia, that's basically communism in itself.
No, poverty trap means having to buy $20 shoes fully knowing that they'll be ruined in 3 months, but not being able to afford $100 shoes which are obviously a better long-term investment. Sure, you know that $100 shoes will last 5 years, but you don't have $100 out of pocket. Why? Cause you need that money to eat. Notice, [I]NOT BEING ABLE TO AFFORD[/I]
[/QUOTE]
But you can afford a fancy smartphone right? Satelite TV? Cable? Broadband Internet? A fancy gamer PC? Consoles? To go drinking at least once a week? Maybe to consume weed and other drugs?
[QUOTE]Victim blaming is fun.
Yeah, you come home one day and your car, the only thing letting you commute to work, is missing. What do?[/QUOTE]
Have insurance? Why not?
Get a bike?
Walk?
Use public transport?
Carpool?
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381866]I don't have the time to read 16 pages, sorry. Summarize it?[/QUOTE]
You are a liar
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;43381903]Yes sir-re, center for labour and social studies sounds way to leftist to hold and real value. And all the sources it must reference must be utter drivel.
You obviously have spent a lot of time researching that, haven't you.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/s3cfwvq.png[/img]
Research the topic more instead of using a glossily simplified definition that can easily misinform people.
What would motivate sometone to steal something?[/QUOTE]
Drug addiction?
Greed?
Knowing they'll get away with it - welcome to 21st century Britain.
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Valnar;43381943]You are a liar[/QUOTE]
Ok, I could find the time if I wanted to, but I don't want to. Just summarize it please. Have you even read it?
[editline]1st January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;43381926]Anti-matter reaction, we could easily have enough power to explore the stars.[/QUOTE]
Yawnmen is fucking awesome man, always laugh when he's around :))
....and that guy who worked in PR for the North Korean government, I forget his name now xD
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381948]Drug addiction?
Greed?
Knowing they'll get away with it - welcome to 21st century Britain.
[/QUOTE]
You know that statistic that shows the disproportion between Caucasians and Afro-Americans in prison? You basically just flat out stated that Afro-Americans steal more because they are either:
a)Drug addicted
b)Greedy
c)Know they'll get away with it.
Do you want to get behind that statement? Because that's what you're conveying right now, and this isn't me cherrypicking.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381948]Drug addiction?
Greed?
Knowing they'll get away with it - welcome to 21st century Britain.
[/quote]
Or perhaps they are desperate. Countless studies have shown a distinct correlation between crime and poverty.
[quote]
Ok, I could find the time if I wanted to, but I don't want to. Just summarize it.
[/quote]
It's myths regarding welfare in the UK
Myth 1: There are generations of workless, work-shy families
Myth 2: Benefits are too generous
Myth 3: Spending on benefits is out of control
Myth 4: The benefit bill is high because of cheats and fraudsters
Myth 5: Universal benefits are expensive and inefficient
Myth 6: Most claimants are sitting at home on benefits for years
Myth 7: Many people choose to claim disability benefits rather than work
Myth 8: Most benefit spending goes on the unemployed
Myth 9: The number of people claiming out-of-work benefits is
Myth 10: We are spending vast amounts on huge families with hordes of children increasing year on year
Myth 11: The benefits system encourages couples to split up
Myth 12: Work is always the best route out of poverty
[QUOTE=Stopper;43381989]You know that statistic that shows the disproportion between Caucasians and Afro-Americans in prison? You basically just flat out stated that Afro-Americans steal more because they are either:
a)Drug addicted
[/QUOTE]
You're unfamiliar with the plague of crack-cocaine that descended upon American inner-cities in the 1980s, then the UK in the 90s?
Also the punishments doled out to African-Americans seems grossly disproportionate, ridiculously long sentences for fairly minor things.
[QUOTE]
b)Greedy
c)Know they'll get away with it.
Do you want to get behind that statement? Because that's what you're conveying right now, and this isn't me cherrypicking.[/QUOTE]
In the UK no-one faces hard time for anything anymore. Burglars and muggers get a slap on the wrist. It's very different to the US. Murderers being given "life sentences" then freed in 8 years etc etc. Oh and those who do face jails face pretty easy conditions compared to the US system.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43382036]In the UK no-one faces hard time for anything anymore. Burglars and muggers get a slap on the wrist. It's very different to the US. Murderers being given "life sentences" then freed in 8 years etc etc. Oh and those who do face jails face pretty easy conditions compared to the US system.[/QUOTE]
Oh boy, we are approaching the point where we have to show why Norway has such a good prison system again, and why US has one of the worst prison systems in the world.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;43382060]Oh boy, we are approaching the point where we have to show why Norway has such a good prison system again, and why US has one of the worst prison systems in the world.[/QUOTE]
Recidivism does seem to be kept quite low in Norway and Sweden, but would it work for the US and UK?
EDIT: If they were at least REQUIRED to do something productive, with appropriate sanctions for non-compliance, like education/training, while they were locked up, instead of playing XBox, watching TV etc then we might start getting somewhere, but it's not so easy to do with the ridiculously short sentences we have in the UK.
[QUOTE=kuydna][i]"stupid shit"[/i][/QUOTE]
Common sense is like a antiperspirant, those who need it the most refuses to use it.
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43382127]Common sense is like a antiperspirant, those who need it the most refuses to use it.[/QUOTE]
Like those who think all rich people are evil and 75% tax, for anyone, is reasonable.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43382160]Like those who think all rich people are evil and 75% tax, for anyone, is reasonable.[/QUOTE]
At-least they provided sensible and scientifically backed proof.
You provided biased crackpot sites, and then complained about why people started calling you out even harder.
[QUOTE=O Cheerios O;43382315]At-least they provided sensible and scientifically backed proof.
You provided biased crackpot sites, and then complained about why people started calling you out even harder.[/QUOTE]
There has been virtually nothing of the kind, I'm still waiting for many points I've made to be refuted.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43382360]There has been virtually nothing of the kind, I'm still waiting for many points I've made to be refuted.[/QUOTE]
that's cause you haven't made any points tbh
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