• France's 75% tax rate approved by top court after revisions
    513 replies, posted
[QUOTE=kuydna;43382360]There has been virtually nothing of the kind, I'm still waiting for many points I've made to be refuted.[/QUOTE] I like how there was information posted, you at first completely dismissed it because of the name. Then complained that it was too long and asked for someone to summarize it for you. And then when someone summarized it for you, you ignored it.
[QUOTE=Valnar;43382399]I like how there was information posted, you at first completely dismissed it because of the name. Then complained that it was too long and asked for someone to summarize it for you. And then when someone summarized it for you, you ignored it.[/QUOTE] I was taking a dump, gonna reply now. [editline]1st January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Ogopogo;43382026]Or perhaps they are desperate. Countless studies have shown a distinct correlation between crime and poverty. [/QUOTE] Sorry for delay. How would you define poverty? How many people in rich Western countries "need" to steal or commit crimes in order to survive? Really? Is someone with all the luxuries I mentioned on another post neccessarrily impoverished? [QUOTE]It's myths regarding welfare in the UK Myth 1: There are generations of workless, work-shy families [/QUOTE] I've met them :) [QUOTE] Myth 2: Benefits are too generous [/QUOTE] If people wanna exist on £70 a week JSA, or whatever it is, that's upto them, I was more interested in the legions of working poor on minimum wage. It saddens me how so many people are resigned to their lot in life. [QUOTE] Myth 3: Spending on benefits is out of control [/QUOTE] Seems to be outstripping rate of inflation, also social security accounts for almost a third of the UK government budget. Is that bad enough? [QUOTE]Myth 4: The benefit bill is high because of cheats and fraudsters [/QUOTE] Yeah, this is probably crap. [QUOTE]Myth 5: Universal benefits are expensive and inefficient [/QUOTE] There's not enough conditionality to them, IMO. "Here take an unending stream of money for nothing". Even though admitedly it's not a huge amount. [QUOTE] Myth 6: Most claimants are sitting at home on benefits for years [/QUOTE] Many are. I've met them. I've been one :P [QUOTE]Myth 7: Many people choose to claim disability benefits rather than work[/QUOTE] Many people do try to game the system. [QUOTE]Myth 8: Most benefit spending goes on the unemployed [/QUOTE] Yeah, this is false. [QUOTE]Myth 9: The number of people claiming out-of-work benefits is [/QUOTE] Is? They are? Sounds a bit Zen.... [QUOTE]Myth 10: We are spending vast amounts on huge families with hordes of children increasing year on year Myth 11: The benefits system encourages couples to split up [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]Myth 12: Work is always the best route out of poverty[/QUOTE] Either work or education/training, followed by work. Surely you agree? It's not only good sense economically, but it can be good for their self-esteem. How healthy is years of benefits claiming for people's minds?
[QUOTE=kuydna;43382446] WORDS[/QUOTE] Are you going to bother to read the actual article or what. For instance, only 0.3% of households have two or more generations that have not worked. This is not opinion that you can dismiss. In fact, every point you dismiss is normally from a comprehensive study. You are wrong making any of the claims you just did unless you can back them up with sources. For instance, that 0.3% comes from this study. [url]http://www.bristol.ac.uk/cmpo/publications/papers/2011/wp278.pdf[/url] As for the bill being high because of cheasters and fraudsters being crap, once again you are wrong unless you can prove otherwise. 0.7% is how much is overpaid because of fraud. Once again, this is from a study. Unless you can provide a source otherwise, personal opinion or experience is invalid. In fact, let me go back and go through all of them since you are too lazy. [QUOTE=kuydna;43382446] Seems to be outstripping rate of inflation, also social security accounts for almost a third of the UK government budget. Is that bad enough? [/quote] Benefit spending is actually shrinking. [quote] There's not enough conditionality to them, IMO. "Here take an unending stream of money for nothing". Even though admitedly it's not a huge amount. [/quote] Class (2013) [I]The Case for Universalism: Assessing the Evidence. [/I] [quote] Many are. I've met them. I've been one :P[/quote] [quote]Benefit claims are most likely to be short-term - less than half of Jobseeker’s Allowance claimants claim the benefit for more than 13 weeks, and less than 10% claim for more than a year. Incapacity Benefit has the longest claim duration but between 2003 and 2008 nearly 50% were claiming for 2 years or less, while 63% were for less than 5 years¹[/quote] [quote] Many people do try to game the system.[/quote] [quote]There are two main kinds of disability benefits: Disability Living Allowance - to cover the extra costs of disability - and Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) - income replacement for those not working. The most basic misunderstanding is that ESA is only for people who are completely incapable of work. [/quote] [quote]Yeah, this is false.[/quote] 53% goes to pensioners. Less than a quarter goes to out-of-work benefits. [quote] Is? They are? Sounds a bit Zen....[/quote] For someone two lazy to read a few pages, you don't have much of a position there bub. Myth 9: The number of people claiming out-of-work benefits is increasing year on year
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;43382794]Are you going to bother to read the actual article or what.[/QUOTE] 42 pages this time!? [QUOTE]For instance, only 0.3% of households have two or more generations that have not worked. This is not opinion that you can dismiss. In fact, [/QUOTE] Ok, I'll take your word for it, maybe it was just my own experience. [QUOTE]every point you dismiss is normally from a comprehensive study. You are wrong making any of the claims you just did unless you can back them up with sources. For instance, that 0.3% comes from this study. [url]http://www.bristol.ac.uk/cmpo/publications/papers/2011/wp278.pdf[/url] [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]As for the bill being high because of cheasters and fraudsters being crap, once again you are [/QUOTE] [QUOTE]wrong unless you can prove otherwise. 0.7% is how much is overpaid because of fraud. Once again, this is from a study. Unless you can provide a source otherwise, personal opinion or experience is invalid.[/QUOTE] *facepalm* Meaning that the assertion that made the myth was crap, i.e. I was AGREEING with the study. *sighs*
[QUOTE=kuydna;43382852] *facepalm* Meaning that the assertion that made the myth was crap, i.e. I was AGREEING with the study. *sighs*[/QUOTE] Be specific then, your response was ambiguous
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;43382794]Are you going to bother to read the actual article or what.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]In fact, let me go back and go through all of them since you are too lazy.[/QUOTE] You expect people to drop everything and read 58 pages of stuff (42 + 16 from before)? [QUOTE]Benefit spending is actually shrinking.[/QUOTE] Is that in the study, what page, because I don't believe that sorry. It was £200 billion not that long ago, then £220 billion for 2013..... [QUOTE]Class (2013) [I]The Case for Universalism: Assessing the Evidence. [/I][/QUOTE] Summarize? Look I know people who've had years of benefits. I was one of them. It's harmful. The longer people are out of the workforce the more harm it does to their employability, employers don't look favourably upon huge holes in your CV. It undermines people's self-esteem and confidence, it does wanders for their dateability too :( People need to be got off work-related benefits ASAP so it doesn't do the harm alluded to above. The long-term unemployed might be a minority but they do exist, I know them and I've been one and to reiterate it's not something we want. Yup, I know about those dissability benefits, are you telling me there aren't people out there pretending they are sicker than they actually are? [QUOTE]53% goes to pensioners. Less than a quarter goes to out-of-work benefits.[/QUOTE] I actually knew that :) [QUOTE]For someone two lazy to read a few pages, you don't have much of a position there bub. Myth 9: The number of people claiming out-of-work benefits is increasing year on year[/QUOTE] Thanks. [editline]1st January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Ogopogo;43382970]Be specific then, your response was ambiguous[/QUOTE] I'd edit it but the text field is blank....
[QUOTE=kuydna;43383054]You expect people to drop everything and read 58 pages of stuff (42 + 16 from before)?[/QUOTE] The first article takes only like 10 minutes to read. The second paper only has about 30 pages of double spaced content, the rest are charts and refrences. Also for the second paper (and most academic papers), you only need to really read the intro and conclusion to get most of the idea, the rest of it is basically support for the assertions made.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43383054]You expect people to drop everything and read 58 pages of stuff (42 + 16 from before)?.[/QUOTE] I only wanted you to read the 16 pages, which took me all of 5 minutes. I never said to read the study, just the article.
[QUOTE=Valnar;43383095]The first article takes only like 10 minutes to read. The second paper only has about 30 pages of double spaced content, the rest are charts and refrences. Also for the second paper (and most academic papers), you only need to really read the intro and conclusion to get most of the idea, the rest of it is basically support for the assertions made.[/QUOTE] See this is one of the things I mean, wouldn't that time be better spent reading about your vocation, whatever it is, or developing a new one? Read 30 pages about Unity3D / C++ for example.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43383243]See this is one of the things I mean, wouldn't that time be better spent reading about your vocation, whatever it is, or developing a new one? Read 30 pages about Unity3D / C++ for example.[/QUOTE] If you are not going to read it, stop wasting our time and just say it.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;43383292]If you are not going to read it, stop wasting our time and just say it.[/QUOTE] I've already said I'm not going to read any multi-page documents, I'll take your word about their contents.
[QUOTE=kuydna;43383306]I've already said I'm not going to read any multi-page documents, I'll take your word about their contents.[/QUOTE] lol, except you didn't take ogopogo's word on it.
[QUOTE=Valnar;43383322]lol, except you didn't take ogopogo's word on it.[/QUOTE] About the shrinking benefit spending? Yeah I can accept that too. I think there was some ambiguity about benefits and social security...? Are we including pensions as a form of benefits or just JSA/DSA/ESA etc? EDIT: Look who's number 2 :> [URL]http://www.weforum.org/reports/global-competitiveness-report-2013-2014[/URL] Also we need to teach entrepreneurial stuff to kids at school - fuck PE 8)
[QUOTE=kuydna;43381835][highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling, Shitposting, perhaps other things as well" - Megafan))[/highlight][/QUOTE] and stay out [sp]thank you based megafan[/sp]
[QUOTE=kuydna;43382160]Like those who think all rich people are evil and 75% tax, for anyone, is reasonable.[/QUOTE] rich people aren't evil, they're disconnected from reality as a natural psychological response to accruing so much wealth. it's a documented scientific phenomenon that many affluent people believe in a world that is just; that they got where they are based on their own brilliance and perseverance instead of luck and opportunity. however, we do not live in a just world. it doesn't really matter how brilliant you are - if the conditions aren't right, you won't be able to be as rich or successful as the top percentage earners of the world. in fact, for many people, simply getting into the middle class and staying there is something of an impossibility. why? because it takes money to make money. poor areas have poor job markets. schools in poor areas have the least financial resources, and research shows that these schools consistently perform at a lower level than more affluent ones, so you wouldn't be able to compete on the job market in other places anyway. college in the united states is way too expensive, and all of the good colleges are far away from where you live, too, so that's an additional cost of room and board. you can't get scholarships, because you're too busy working to keep your grades up by any considerable measure, and culturally, you're not expected to do well in the first place. let's even assume that you do get good grades and you do get through college - oops, turns out you picked a bad major, or you end up living in a place with a stagnant job market in your field, or there just aren't any jobs open, or you can't compete. you can't move out of a poor area if you don't have the money to move out, so you're stuck. some people have it bad enough that they have to resort to crime. if you get caught, you're fucked once you get out of jail, because you have the skills/experience/education of a teenager but the physiology of a 40-something year-old, and nobody's going to want to hire a convict. if most people were actually able to transcend their circumstances, they would have done it by now. nobody likes to live under the fear, stress, and anxiety that comes from living with limited financial resources. there's a reason that the kinds of people who rise out of their circumstances are in the minority - because they got lucky. by chance, they were given an opportunity that they were able to take, one that isn't actually open to the majority of people.
Probably best if you dismissed everything kuydna has said entirely, and not bother replying to his posts.
and if you are a gold member go look in the RC
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;43386564]and if you are a gold member go look in the RC[/QUOTE] awww man
Holy shit the guy is insane. He says he's "looking forward to lefties like you getting lynched in the streets"
[quote]awww man[/quote] Don't feel too bad. It's nothing too exciting; just kuydna trying his damnedest to troll and not really succeeding. Anywho, on topic: I wish we'd get some tax reform like that over here in the states. I wouldn't know what to do with multiple millions of dollars (as a person) anyway. I think I plotted it out a while ago that if I ever got $9 million I'd just retire as I would probably never be able to spend all of it -- and what would remain if I tried to would still be a pretty decent nest egg to pass on to someone else. That said I can see the utility in having vast sums of money (starting new business ventures, paying for extremely specialized equipment/large swaths of land/etc.) but in my mind, it's part of the price you pay for living in a society: you should be encouraged to give back to it and discouraged from withdrawing from it. It's not that owning/operating/starting/funding businesses doesn't give back to the community -- but if it's given to the government to hand out evenly it's more useful/evenly spread per dollar taxed (or [i]should[/i] be). But that's just my personal viewpoint and I admit there are flaws to that logic. It still seems to me the better of choices, regardless, if it weren't for our tax-dollar-allocation being so ridiculously skewed towards defense.
He's still throwing a fit in RC. He emailed Garry and Garry basically told him to get stuffed. Golden.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.