• Ukrainian Protesters topple statue of Lenin in Independence Square. EU Flag now flies on the pedesta
    73 replies, posted
If the toppling of the statue was only because of the legacy of the soviet union, then the statue would have been removed along with others after 1991. Why was it standing that long, if it was the case that this only for that? The statue's removal makes a lot more sense if you look at the group behind the action. According to sources the group that pulled down was only a handful in number, joined later by protestors elsewhere in the city once the statue came down. The protestors were waving nationalist symbols associated with the far-right group Svoboda, itself a reorganization of a neo-nazi party from the 90s. From the article [quote] They brandished the blue flags of the nationalist Svoboda (Freedom) group indicating they were likely linked to the party, two of whose deputies were also present. ... "Hang the Commie!" screamed the protesters. ... "What an unpleasant suicide!" later quipped Oleg Tyagnybok, the leader of Svoboda, in a statement released by his party.[/quote] Svoboda's done this before earlier in the year, so it's not a spontaneous act of protest against the current government. Svoboda is very ultra-nationalist and is a reorganization of a neo-nazi party that tried to soften its image because of its anti-semitic associations. In recent years it has associated itself with the main opposition in hopes of capitalizing on anti-corruption sentiment as the current government is pretty much as corrupt as it comes. As such in the last elections it carved out a sizable share of parliament seats in its stronghold in Western Ukraine around Lviv. It's not a part of the Fatherland coalition which is the main opposition but it tries to ride on its coattails for its own benefit. From the wiki article [quote] Ideology Svoboda's ideological base emanates from Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists leader Yaroslav Stetsko's "Two Revolutions" doctrine (written in 1951). The essence of this doctrine states: "the revolution will not end with the establishment of the Ukrainian state, but will go on to establish equal opportunities for all people to create and share material and spiritual values and in this respect the national revolution is also a social one". A crucial condition for joining Svoboda is that its members must belong to the Ukrainian nation. Nationalism Svoboda is a party of Ukrainian nationalism and in favor of a purely presidential regime. This led to comparisons between Svoboda and the pro-Russian Party of Regions; however, the party often voices opposition to perceived Russian influences in Ukraine. According to party leader Oleh Tyahnybok, Svoboda is not an ‘extremist’ party; he said that "depicting nationalism as extremism is a cliché rooted in Soviet and modern globalist propaganda". He also stated that "countries like" Japan and Israel are fully nationalistic states, "but nobody accuses the Japanese of being extremists". According to Tyahnybok, the party's view of nationalism "shouldn’t be mixed with chauvinism or fascism, which means superiority of one nation over another," and that its platform is called “Our Own Authorities, Our Own Property, Our Own Dignity, on Our Own God-Given Land.” The party's agenda is set out in an article entitled "Nationalism and pseudonationalism" published on the official website of the party. Svoboda member Andriy Illienko calls for a "social and national revolution in Ukraine," a "major shift in [the] political, economic, [and] ethical system", and the "dismantling [of] the liberal regime of antinational occupation". Illienko explains that "only the revolution can now prevent Ukraine from the brink, and make it the first modern nationalist state that will ensure continuous development of the Ukrainian nation, and show other nations the path to genuine sovereignty and prosperity.". Illienko continues that cultural details are not important for a nationalist who "must wake up with the idea that he is a metal political soldier of Nation." ("Націоналіст... забов'язаний просинатися з думкою, що він – залізний політичний солдат Нації..."). This document sets up the enemy of Svoboda, a pseudonationalist, a person who wants "all-ukrainian values" ("українськість","щоб все було українське") and adheres to "conventional liberalism [of] 'civilized' Western democracy and capitalism." Another attribute of a pseudonationalist is the belief in "Free market", "democracy", "fighting authoritarianism". The party views the dominating role of Ukraine's oligarchy as "devastating". While oligarchs have typically played a major role in the funding of other Ukrainian parties, in 2004 Tyahnybok referred to "the Moscow-Jewish mafia which today runs Ukraine".Svoboda claims to receive no financial support from oligarchs, but rather from Ukraine's small and medium-sized businesses. The party seeks to put a stop to immigration into Ukraine, and to make sure that only ethnic Ukrainians can be employed as civil servants. A book published by Yuriy Mykhalchyshyn, Svoboda's ideologue, in 2010 contained German sources in content and bibliography, including writings by Ernst Röhm and Gregor Strasser, as well as Joseph Goebbels. Elsewhere Mykhalchyshyn referred to the Holocaust as a "period of Light in history". Mykhalchyshyn, who is a Svoboda member of parliament, "often quotes former German Nazi propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels, as well as other Third Reich luminaries like Ernst Röhm and Gregor Strasser". Anti-Communism Svoboda is known for its anti-Communist stance, and several party activists over the years have been accused of trying to destroy Communist-era statues. On February 16, 2013, police in Ukraine opened a criminal case on charges of hooliganism against nationalist activists lead by Svoboda Supreme Rada deputy Ihor Miroshnychenko for the dismantling of a statue of Vladimir Lenin in Okhtyrka, Sumy Oblast. “There is no place for Communist symbols and ideology in European Ukraine and if the authorities cannot get rid of them, we will do it ourselves,” said Miroshnychenko. According to police, Miroshnychenko climbed the statue and put a rope around Lenin’s figure, which was then pulled down by a truck.[/quote] In that context their action in tearing down the statue is only to meet their narrow views rather than anything really conductive to the demonstrations.
[QUOTE=MercZ;43125848]If the toppling of the statue was only because of the legacy of the soviet union, then the statue would have been removed along with others after 1991. Why was it standing that long, if it was the case that this only for that? The statue's removal makes a lot more sense if you look at the group behind the action. According to sources the group that pulled down was only a handful in number, joined later by protestors elsewhere in the city once the statue came down. The protestors were waving nationalist symbols associated with the far-right group Svoboda, itself a reorganization of a neo-nazi party from the 90s. From the article Svoboda's done this before earlier in the year, so it's not a spontaneous act of protest against the current government. Svoboda is very ultra-nationalist and is a reorganization of a neo-nazi party that tried to soften its image because of its anti-semitic associations. In recent years it has associated itself with the main opposition in hopes of capitalizing on anti-corruption sentiment as the current government is pretty much as corrupt as it comes. As such in the last elections it carved out a sizable share of parliament seats in its stronghold in Western Ukraine around Lviv. It's not a part of the Fatherland coalition which is the main opposition but it tries to ride on its coattails for its own benefit. From the wiki article In that context their action in tearing down the statue is only to meet their narrow views rather than anything really conductive to the demonstrations.[/QUOTE] In that case, I suppose the ignorance of the toppling is a good thing as people will only see it as "the protesters" tearing down a symbol of Russian oppression instead of this marginal group's nationalist ideology.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43126213]In that case, I suppose the ignorance of the toppling is a good thing as people will only see it as "the protesters" tearing down a symbol of Russian oppression instead of this marginal group's nationalist ideology.[/QUOTE] If that was the only case, someone would've torn down this statue a long time ago, along with others, after independence. There's plenty of documentaries of soviet republics at independence removing signs of soviet domination, as well as client states that were under its thumb in eastern Europe. The group is not as marginal as it was some years ago, and that is the point- it is growing in support, much like the Golden Dawn is in Greece. Barely 10 years ago it had no political presence, and now it is among the formidable opposition parties. Svoboda are not as strong as other parties but they have 36 seats in parliament and it is speculated that the opposition might give them a ministry seat in return for their efforts in organizing opposition against the government, especially in the western parts of the country. For comparison, the main opposition, Fatherland coalition, has 92 seats and boxer Klitschko's UDAR party has 42. They aren't exactly marginal by this point.
I must have misread, because by your previous post I felt it implied they weren't a very big group to be noteworthy.
What is this sudden pain in my chest? Oh, wait...
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43126523]I must have misread, because by your previous post I felt it implied they weren't a very big group to be noteworthy.[/QUOTE] That is my fault, I was just prefixing this to make sure people didn't paint the whole opposition by their actions.
don't worry guys. maoist rebel news keeps us up to date with commentary about the lenin statue. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqvwgqm0hCw[/media]
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;43131162]Except that most fascists hate the EUSSR.[/QUOTE] Which is ironic, taking into account the similarities between a fascist state and the Soviet Union, politically and economically.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;43121948] A better question would be why Britain declared War on Germany for invading Poland, but they never so much as reprimanded Russia for doing the exact same thing mere weeks later. It's one historical thing that actually really bothers me...[/QUOTE] Most likely that was because UK government didn't really want to place Soviet Union officially on the same side of the war as Germany. Because after the declaration of war, Stalin wouldn't have had to play smart and could just start aiding Germany directly (as opposed to just sending in resources). Declaring war against two biggest and mightiest armies, war you can't really win is not a very smart thing to do. British government had to pick lesser evil of the two.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;43115189][img]http://s1.reutersmedia.net/resources/r/?m=02&d=20131208&t=2&i=818525344&w=&fh=&fw=&ll=700&pl=390&r=CBRE9B711RA00[/img][/QUOTE] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v688/Dinogaby/favecartoons/vinny01.jpg[/img] [url]http://youtu.be/yg8wePgXDIY[/url]
We did it! [video=youtube;78ahSefSr50]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78ahSefSr50[/video] So glorious... [IMG]http://alfahir.hu/sites/barikad.hu/files/images/35.jpg[/IMG] It's written there "Water Closet" aka Toilet.
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