[QUOTE=CubeManv2;46044690]i'm mainly siding with he had a sword, shoot him in the legs and he's done, but at the sametime it's a sword and i don't know the distances encountered[/QUOTE]
Ladies and gentlemen, this man ran for council of Yonkers and thought he had a legitimate chance. Round of applause for this brave man thinking he would get anywhere with this sort of thinking.
There's a kid who literally died, probably because the cop was trigger happy, and there's an alarming amount of jokes being made towards it. Like seriously I guess I get it but the kid is fucking dead. He was at an anime convention. I would not be even a little surprised if it turned out that the kid did not lunge towards him at all. And seriously, I'm usually one to make jokes but it's a little weird seeing the amount in this thread
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;46044706]If he was legit lunging at them with a sword like the article said, I really cannot fault the officers, though we don't have enough information to know what kind of a threat he appeared to be.[/QUOTE]
convieniantly every person thats been shot by the cops always lunges at them
while there's always two sides to a story, simply "he lunged, i shot" doesn't always make sense, in this case its awfully hard to lunge at someone when you're running the fuck away, as indicated by the fact that he was shot 6 times [I]in the back[/I]
more info is needed. I know there's a lot of dweebs at cons who'll pretend swordfight off to the side of places and it could have looked like he was attacking someone. However there's a few notes to consider here, including:
"The Hunt family previously described it as a play sword with [B]plastic blade[/B]."
vs
"They say officers were reacting to Hunt [U]lunging at them[/U] with [B]the steel sword[/B]."
vs
"Darrien Hunt was [U]shot six times from behind[/U], with the fatal shot hitting Hunt square in the back."
this is leaning heavily into "a lot of cops opened fire without warning" or "they shouted at him to throw down the weapon and he ran because he was terrified, and they shot him because it's reasonable to assume he could be a danger to others with the sword"
[QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;46044714]"Not race related"
Suuuuure it wasn't. If it was a white kid with a samurai sword they wouldn't think it a threat at all.[/QUOTE]
I knew a really white dude at my highschool who thought it'd be ok to strap a katana to his belt and walk down our town's main street. He was arrested, but because he didn't draw the sword or show he was a threat, he wasn't shot on sight.
I made the mistake of asking a friend if I could crash on her couch for a night, turned out this dude was her boyfriend and it was technically his house. I played friendly to avoid him being weird, and he ended up showing me his collection of weapons (which [i]was[/i] interesting), including a 7' long replica Sephiroth sword. He threw me a different sword and wanted to use the sephiroth one in a duel with "scratch rules" as he called it- no stabs (wow thanks) but the fight ends if you take a slice. jesus fuck man
I set it down and said I had anemia and would bleed out indefinitely if I took a hit, he bought it. didn't sleep that night (granted I was on a long sleepless binge at the time), just sat on the couch and had a several hour long staring contest with a turtle in a fishtank
[QUOTE=dai;46049458]I set it down and said I had anemia and would bleed out indefinitely if I took a hit, he bought it. didn't sleep that night (granted I was on a long sleepless binge at the time), just sat on the couch and had a several hour long staring contest with a turtle in a fishtank[/QUOTE]
The turtle was trying to reach out to you. he wanted to become your sensei. He would have trained you in the arts of the blade and revealed all of his evil master's secret weaknesses. you were destined to rise up and defeat him, to save his girlfriend and sensei turtle.
[QUOTE=dai;46049458]more info is needed. I know there's a lot of dweebs at cons who'll pretend swordfight off to the side of places and it could have looked like he was attacking someone. However there's a few notes to consider here, including:
"The Hunt family previously described it as a play sword with [B]plastic blade[/B]."
vs
"They say officers were reacting to Hunt [U]lunging at them[/U] with [B]the steel sword[/B]."
vs
"Darrien Hunt was [U]shot six times from behind[/U], with the fatal shot hitting Hunt square in the back."
this is leaning heavily into "a lot of cops opened fire without warning" or "they shouted at him to throw down the weapon and he ran because he was terrified, and they shot him because it's reasonable to assume he could be a danger to others with the sword"
I knew a really white dude at my highschool who thought it'd be ok to strap a katana to his belt and walk down our town's main street. He was arrested, but because he didn't draw the sword or show he was a threat, he wasn't shot on sight.
I made the mistake of asking a friend if I could crash on her couch for a night, turned out this dude was her boyfriend and it was technically his house. I played friendly to avoid him being weird, and he ended up showing me his collection of weapons (which [i]was[/i] interesting), including a 7' long replica Sephiroth sword. He threw me a different sword and wanted to use the sephiroth one in a duel with "scratch rules" as he called it- no stabs (wow thanks) but the fight ends if you take a slice. jesus fuck man
I set it down and said I had anemia and would bleed out indefinitely if I took a hit, he bought it. didn't sleep that night (granted I was on a long sleepless binge at the time), just sat on the couch and had a several hour long staring contest with a turtle in a fishtank[/QUOTE]
The sword in question:
[thumb]http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/sword-from-darrien-hunt-shooting-via-utah-county-attorneys-office.jpg?w=770&h=1162[/thumb]
[url=http://fox13now.com/2014/09/19/authorities-release-photo-of-sword-involved-in-fatal-shooting-of-darrien-hunt/comment-page-1/#comments]Fox 13[/url]
Dumbass shouldn't have had a metal sword in a public setting period. Full stop.
Although, he didn't deserve to die, unless he had actual intent to attack the police.
[QUOTE=Spherexd;46049757]The sword in question:
[thumb]http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/sword-from-darrien-hunt-shooting-via-utah-county-attorneys-office.jpg?w=770&h=1162[/thumb]
[url=http://fox13now.com/2014/09/19/authorities-release-photo-of-sword-involved-in-fatal-shooting-of-darrien-hunt/comment-page-1/#comments]Fox 13[/url][/QUOTE]
It looks like it's made of steel and judging from the uneven marks, it is sharpened as well.
Why the hell would you bring a sharpened sword to an Anime convention?
I take it that even in USA, you have laws against doing such things, right?
The "uneven marks" is actually something that's deliberately put on it, and to be honest, looking at the tip, it kinda looks plastic.
[QUOTE=Spherexd;46049757]The sword in question:
[thumb]http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/sword-from-darrien-hunt-shooting-via-utah-county-attorneys-office.jpg?w=770&h=1162[/thumb]
[url=http://fox13now.com/2014/09/19/authorities-release-photo-of-sword-involved-in-fatal-shooting-of-darrien-hunt/comment-page-1/#comments]Fox 13[/url][/QUOTE]
The bent tsuba is leading me to believe that it's really shoddy metal. Which would not be something you'd be able to tell just by looking at it, so if he really did lunge at the officers they would have had every right to defend themselves, still wouldn't explain why he had wounds in his back tho
[QUOTE=Dukov Traboski;46049986]The bent tsuba is leading me to believe that it's really shoddy metal. Which would not be something you'd be able to tell just by looking at it, so if he really did lunge at the officers they would have had every right to defend themselves, still wouldn't explain why he had wounds in his back tho[/QUOTE]
At this point, my guess would be that he swung, then ran away when they pointed their guns at him, but got shot regardless.
this just doesn't add up to me.
why would he "lunge" as the article explains it, at an officer? was he weilding his sword at the same time? Did the officer not consider pulling out a taze gun to incapitate the "attacker"?
Note for I'm not an expert on tazers or firearms, I don't honestly know how bad it is to get tazed but I find it safe to assume that a taze gun would have easily stopped him in his tracks depending on the distance. Not to mention the bullets were shot into his back, not front.
it's too vauge for me to even consider taking sides.
moral of the story is don't watch anime
[QUOTE=SirDavid255;46050122]this just doesn't add up to me.
why would he "lunge" as the article explains it, at an officer? was he weilding his sword at the same time? Did the officer not consider pulling out a taze gun to incapitate the "attacker"?
Note for I'm not an expert on tazers or firearms, I don't honestly know how bad it is to get tazed but I find it safe to assume that a taze gun would have easily stopped him in his tracks depending on the distance.
it's too vauge for me to even consider taking sides.[/QUOTE]
Tazing someone holding a blade isn't a great idea.
They could fall on it, or stab themselves when their muscles contract, or it could leave their hand and get launched somewhere etc.
[QUOTE=Spherexd;46049757]The sword in question:
[thumb]http://localtvkstu.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/sword-from-darrien-hunt-shooting-via-utah-county-attorneys-office.jpg?w=770&h=1162[/thumb]
[url=http://fox13now.com/2014/09/19/authorities-release-photo-of-sword-involved-in-fatal-shooting-of-darrien-hunt/comment-page-1/#comments]Fox 13[/url][/QUOTE]
well that answers that, he probably picked it up from the con. You can see a small light edge along the cutting edge of the blade, it's shaved down substantially so it's a fat area with a 90 degree edge. Not any less dangerous with the pointy end nor does it look any less threatening, but it's worth note that "buying it during the con" is probably why the parents didn't know about this thing
weapon vendors at cons will wrap the box with a lot of packing tape and say you can't touch it til you get it home, so you can't "accidentally" pull it out and play with it in the open then claim "nobody told me not to". Have to make a conscious decision to get the thing out and it's beyond stupid to do anything with it out in the open, which is obviously stupid as hell to do in any situation.
Now the question is just whether he was participating in a photoshoot or cosplay group hangout or something, because there may have been indications he wasn't just aimlessly running around with a sword, rather showing it off and doing poses
[QUOTE=BackSapper;46044709]The cops are wrong in some way, but it's hard to tell immediately.[/QUOTE]
Been in a sour mood all day. This cheered me up.
Hilarious.
Im not saying that anyone should be shot in the legs in a really life threathening situation
But i think all that "its just as lethal" talk is kinda.. ehh.
Yeah i will get showered in dumbs but hear me out.
You can stop bloodflow to the entire leg with a piece of rope or a belt, and a stick (baton for example)
If police officers were trained to do that, there'd be immediate care after the threat is over.
I think in some situations, it would be a viable option to shoot the legs, instead of shooting to kill.
Not in cases like somebody lunging at an officer with a weapon though. But its not as lethal, if you have people around that know how to cut bloodflow to the leg and therefore stop the person from bleeding out.
Edit: Oh, and if you have one of those kits the US army uses, (which i've used too) you can stop all bloodflow to the leg in like under 15 seconds.
[QUOTE=Spherexd;46050159]Tazing someone holding a blade isn't a great idea.
They could fall on it, or stab themselves when their muscles contract[/QUOTE]
Better shoot to kill so.
[QUOTE=Spherexd;46050159]or it could leave their hand and get launched somewhere etc.[/QUOTE]
But wouldn't shooting them, especially a body shot, cause a flailing reaction?
[QUOTE=Str4fe;46050662]Im not saying that anyone should be shot in the legs in a really life threathening situation
But i think all that "its just as lethal" talk is kinda.. ehh.
Yeah i will get showered in dumbs but hear me out.
You can stop bloodflow to the entire leg with a piece of rope or a belt, and a stick (baton for example)
If police officers were trained to do that, there'd be immediate care after the threat is over.
I think in some situations, it would be a viable option to shoot the legs, instead of shooting to kill.
Not in cases like somebody lunging at an officer with a weapon though. But its not as lethal, if you have people around that know how to cut bloodflow to the leg and therefore stop the person from bleeding out.
Edit: Oh, and if you have one of those kits the US army uses, (which i've used too) you can stop all bloodflow to the leg in like under 15 seconds.[/QUOTE]
You underestimate how much blood you lose in even a second or two if that artery is cut.
[QUOTE=Bonde;46049914]It looks like it's made of steel and judging from the uneven marks, it is sharpened as well.
Why the hell would you bring a sharpened sword to an Anime convention?
I take it that even in USA, you have laws against doing such things, right?[/QUOTE]
actually, no
you can carry any knife or anything like that in public as long as you're not causing a distrubance, lunging at cops, and or trying to kill anyone
[QUOTE=Crimor;46050736]You underestimate how much blood you lose in even a second or two if that artery is cut.[/QUOTE]
I know that you lose a fuckton of blood really quick. But for example, people have gotten their legs completely ripped off by explosives, and still survived because people were quick enough to stop the bleeding.
[url]http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/30/1/86.abstract[/url]
Blood flow is about 0.6 liters/min in the femoral artery, and anywhere i look, it seems that the most common answer is that you die from blood loss anywhere between 30 seconds and 5 minutes if said artery is cut.
[QUOTE=Kardia;46050711]Better shoot to kill so.
But wouldn't shooting them, especially a body shot, cause a flailing reaction?[/QUOTE]
No, shooting someone doesn't make their arms fly around like spaghetti. People don't react to gunshots like in movies.
Because they were hit in the chest or abdomen, they cannot recoil from the pain as effectively or accurately as opposed to being injured in the limb. This means that their arms will become decorticate (i.e. move towards their center) in order to protect it.
And yes. Better shoot to kill because there's a man who gestured a sword towards a police officer.
[QUOTE=Str4fe;46050779]I know that you lose a fuckton of blood really quick. But for example, people have gotten their legs completely ripped off by explosives, and still survived because people were quick enough to stop the bleeding.[/QUOTE]
what is cauterization and shrapnel blockage.
And besides, most of those scenarios where you hear someone surviving that kinda shit, it's usually a freak accident with the two things I mentioned, or the shockwave made their heart stop, which would lessen the bloodloss a bit since you should really close any burst arteries before starting the heart again.
[QUOTE=Crimor;46050886]what is cauterization and shrapnel blockage.
And besides, most of those scenarios where you hear someone surviving that kinda shit, it's usually a freak accident with the two things I mentioned, or the shockwave made their heart stop, which would lessen the bloodloss a bit since you should really close any burst arteries before starting the heart again.[/QUOTE]
Im trying to find a study on how much blood is lost if the femoral artery is completely cut, but cant find one. Either way, I refuse to believe that after 30 seconds the person would die.
Well, the heart pumps about 4 liters of blood/minute, so there is no way that in any circumstance it could bleed faster than that, in that worst case scenario, the average person would have 30 seconds, until said person would die.
[QUOTE=Str4fe;46050662]Im not saying that anyone should be shot in the legs in a really life threathening situation
But i think all that "its just as lethal" talk is kinda.. ehh.
Yeah i will get showered in dumbs but hear me out.
You can stop bloodflow to the entire leg with a piece of rope or a belt, and a stick (baton for example)
If police officers were trained to do that, there'd be immediate care after the threat is over.
I think in some situations, it would be a viable option to shoot the legs, instead of shooting to kill.
Not in cases like somebody lunging at an officer with a weapon though. But its not as lethal, if you have people around that know how to cut bloodflow to the leg and therefore stop the person from bleeding out.
Edit: Oh, and if you have one of those kits the US army uses, (which i've used too) you can stop all bloodflow to the leg in like under 15 seconds.[/QUOTE]
Whether or not it's as lethal isn't even the point. The point is overall accuracy of police officers in high pressure situations is something like 30%. These are people that use guns for more regularly than the average person and their accuracy sucks. You can [I]not[/I] reliably hit a limb. Furthermore, you shouldn't be firing a gun unless you intend to kill. Period. Guns do killing far better than anything else and can't be relied on to dole out minor injuries to someone. If you're shooting at someone, you shoot to kill.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;46050943]Whether or not it's as lethal isn't even the point. The point is overall accuracy of police officers in high pressure situations is something like 30%. These are people that use guns for more regularly than the average person and their accuracy sucks. You can [I]not[/I] reliably hit a limb. Furthermore, you shouldn't be firing a gun unless you intend to kill. Period. Guns do killing far better than anything else and can't be relied on to dole out minor injuries to someone. If you're shooting at someone, you shoot to kill.[/QUOTE]
I agree, on almost all situations shooting to kill is the best way to remove the threat.
Im just saying, its not as lethal as people believe. Yeah it is lethal but not as lethal as getting shot in the upper torso.
Once again, i say: In the absolute worst case scenario, where bloodflow is restricted by nothing and the artery is basically hanging from your leg, pumping blood at the rate of 4 liters/min, it would take 30 seconds for an average guy to bleed to death, and even then you'd still have a chance of stopping the bleeding before its too late.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYV2GH8j9hU#t=83[/url]
[QUOTE=leoshig;46047461]Attorney: Man Killed By Police Had Shit Taste In Anime[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Let's see the opposing side argue against [I]this[/I].
[QUOTE=Str4fe;46050779]I know that you lose a fuckton of blood really quick. But for example, people have gotten their legs completely ripped off by explosives, and still survived because people were quick enough to stop the bleeding.
[URL]http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/30/1/86.abstract[/URL]
Blood flow is about 0.6 liters/min in the femoral artery, and anywhere i look, it seems that the most common answer is that you die from blood loss anywhere between 30 seconds and 5 minutes if said artery is cut.[/QUOTE]
haven't you received any first aid training? Not only do you bleed out in ~2 minutes if the femoral artery is cut, due to its position it is remarkably difficult to stop it from bleeding. I mean, it's a fair thought but there is no way he would've recieved medical aid that quickly considering the situation.
[QUOTE=wewt!;46051248]haven't you received any first aid training? Not only do you bleed out in ~2 minutes if the femoral artery is cut, due to its position it is remarkably difficult to stop it from bleeding. I mean, it's a fair thought but there is no way he would've recieved medical aid that quickly considering the situation.[/QUOTE]
I thought the bleed out time from a cut to a major artery was between thirty seconds to a minute.
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