Man Roleplaying As Anime Samurai Shot By Police - Polidicks

[QUOTE=wewt!;46051248]haven't you received any first aid training? Not only do you bleed out in ~2 minutes if the femoral artery is cut, due to its position it is remarkably difficult to stop it from bleeding. I mean, it's a fair thought but there is no way he would've recieved medical aid that quickly considering the situation.[/QUOTE] Im talking about not stopping the artery itself from bleeding, im talking about stopping all bloodflow to the limb. And yes, i recieved combat first aid training. And just to be clear, im not saying they should've done so in this situation, im simply trying to make a point that getting shot in the leg isnt as lethal as getting shot in the torso. Also, every police officer should have a combat application tourniquet handy. Im sure it would save some lives.

[QUOTE=Pokeman493;46051271]I thought the bleed out time from a cut to a major artery was between thirty seconds to a minute.[/QUOTE] I honestly can't say off the top of my head because it's been two years since I had my first aid exam, but basically it's very fast - and at the leg very difficult to stop. I don't remember what the proper term for it is, but giving complete compression on the wound with a belt or a wrap that is tightened putting a stick thriugh and twisting is a last resort because it can cause serious damage if left for too long.

[QUOTE=wewt!;46051340]I honestly can't say off the top of my head because it's been two years since I had my first aid exam, but basically it's very fast - and at the leg very difficult to stop. I don't remember what the proper term for it is, but giving complete compression on the wound with a belt or a wrap that is tightened putting a stick thriugh and twisting is a last resort because it can cause serious damage if left for too long.[/QUOTE] If an artery is cut though, there's no time for plan b's, better to lose a limb than to lose a life.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;46051332]Im talking about not stopping the artery itself from bleeding, im talking about stopping all bloodflow to the limb. And yes, i recieved combat first aid training. And just to be clear, im not saying they should've done so in this situation, im simply trying to make a point that getting shot in the leg isnt as lethal as getting shot in the torso.[/QUOTE] That would cause damage if left for too long. You're right, it certainly has less complications, but it is as if not more serious. [editline]22nd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Str4fe;46051363]If an artery is cut though, there's no time for plan b's, better to lose a limb than to lose a life.[/QUOTE] It can cause blood clots, rot and therefore lethal infection. You should know this. That kind of wrap has a very specific use

[QUOTE=wewt!;46051364]That would cause damage if left for too long. You're right, it certainly has less complications, but it is as if not more serious.[/QUOTE] It almost always leads to losing the limb, yes. We were taught to use a tourniquet to stop the bleeding, and then get that person to a medic asap.

Honestly going for the leg is dumb anyway, and first aid isnt even a factor considering the context. I get what you mean, though the level of danger a cut to the femoral artery does is rather irrelevant because it is still extremely lethal. [editline]22nd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Str4fe;46051379]It almost always leads to losing the limb, yes. We were taught to use a tourniquet to stop the bleeding, and then get that person to a medic asap.[/QUOTE] I assume a medic would compress the vein specifically since he has the tools, so I can totally see where you're coming from here, but this is irrelevant as this is not a military unit with field medics - it's a street.

[QUOTE=wewt!;46051409]I assume a medic would compress the vein specifically since he has the tools, so I can totally see where you're coming from here, but this is irrelevant as this is not a military unit with field medics - it's a street.[/QUOTE] I dont see why it wouldnt work on the street too. The police officer would apply the tourniquet and the person would be rushed to a hospital. And yes, there are very, very few situations(if any) where i'd say shooting in the legs would be a better option than shooting to kill.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;46051479]I dont see why it wouldnt work on the street too. The police officer would apply the tourniquet and the person would be rushed to a hospital. And yes, there are very, very few situations(if any) where i'd say shooting in the legs would be a better option than shooting to kill.[/QUOTE] Tourniquets do not get applied unless there is absolutely no other option to stop the bleeding. They're the very last resort and should not be considered without the presence of a paramedic or other advanced level medical personnel.

[QUOTE=Spherexd;46051492]Tourniquets do not get applied unless there is absolutely no other option to stop the bleeding. They're the very last resort and should not be considered without the presence of a paramedic or other advanced level medical personnel.[/QUOTE] Isnt a tourniquet the safest way in such an emergency? Waiting for an EMT would certainly be no option, and the bleeding should be stopped in a matter of seconds.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;46051513]Isnt a tourniquet the safest way in such an emergency? Waiting for an EMT would certainly be no option, and the bleeding should be stopped in a matter of seconds.[/QUOTE] No. By no means should anyone other than a trained EMT apply a tourniquet. Not even under an emergency physician's approval. The moment it goes on is the same moment you step out of your scope of practice, meaning you will get destroyed in court if and when the limb dies, and the patient goes into shock from the toxic blood. It is not a police officer's job.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;46051513]Isnt a tourniquet the safest way in such an emergency? Waiting for an EMT would certainly be no option, and the bleeding should be stopped in a matter of seconds.[/QUOTE] A police officer is not going to consider giving him aid sk quickly, he has to make sure the situation is over first. Not to mention that shooting someone is a bit shocking for everyone, even the cop. Not to mention the ever prevalent bystander effect. Slowing it down by applying pressure is preferable to cutting off all bloodflow, which can buy you a bit of time.

[QUOTE=Spherexd;46051538]No. By no means should anyone other than a trained EMT apply a tourniquet. Not even under an emergency physician's approval. The moment it goes on is the same moment you step out of your scope of practice, meaning you will get destroyed in court if and when the limb dies, and the patient goes into shock from the toxic blood. It is not a police officer's job.[/QUOTE] But what other option would there be, if an artery in the leg was gushing blood? The other option would be to let it bleed until help arrives, and would that even be an option? Anyway, derailing this way too far, we should discuss this somewhere else.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;46051571]But what other option would there be, if an artery in the leg was gushing blood? The other option would be to let it bleed until help arrives, and would that even be an option? Anyway, derailing this way too far, we should discuss this somewhere else.[/QUOTE] Apply pressure and wait. If you cannot do anything more, then you cannot do anything more.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;46051571]But what other option would there be, if an artery in the leg was gushing blood? The other option would be to let it bleed until help arrives, and would that even be an option? Anyway, derailing this way too far, we should discuss this somewhere else.[/QUOTE] or how about don't be an idiot and think shooting people in the leg is a better option to take threats down than shooting center mass.

[QUOTE=wewt!;46051558]A police officer is not going to consider giving him aid sk quickly, he has to make sure the situation is over first. Not to mention that shooting someone is a bit shocking for everyone, even the cop. Not to mention the ever prevalent bystander effect. Slowing it down by applying pressure is preferable to cutting off all bloodflow, which can buy you a bit of time.[/QUOTE] Possibly. I dont know how effectively you could slow it down though. Wouldn't it also be possible to apply a tourniquet and not fasten it all the way?

[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;46051595]or how about don't be an idiot and think shooting people in the leg is a better option to take threats down than shooting center mass.[/QUOTE] He said himself that he didnt think that, this wasnt really about that honestly it was more about the wound itself.

I think: He motioned to attack them, they fired but missed the first shot(s), prompting him to flee--but here's what might explain the seemingly excessiveness of their force and success in consecutively hitting him on-mark multiple times: When you run--you run in a straight line (especially when fleeing in panic). So after the initial shot(s) missed, they now had a perfect opportunity to take him down, because he was running away in a straight line. I'm just trying to provide a likely scenario. Just because he was pumped full of lead doesn't mean the cops were trigger happy and just unloaded on an idle pedestrian.

[QUOTE=wewt!;46051621]He said himself that he didnt think that, this wasnt really about that honestly it was more about the wound itself.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Str4fe;46050662]I think in some situations, it would be a viable option to shoot the legs, instead of shooting to kill. But its not as lethal, if you have people around that know how to cut bloodflow to the leg and therefore stop the person from bleeding out.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Str4fe;46051608]Possibly. I dont know how effectively you could slow it down though. Wouldn't it also be possible to apply a tourniquet and not fasten it all the way?[/QUOTE] It isnt very effective, that's why its such a dangerous wound, do you understand what I mean now? I can't comment on whether or not you are allowed to apply a torniquet, since I'm not from the US, and in my country you are allowed to use your judgement, but are very strictly advised that the torniquet is 99% out of the question as it is simply too dangerous. If I remember correctly you can even fail your first aid exam by answering with it, despite being taught about it :v: [editline]22nd September 2014[/editline] Okay BeardyDuck he later said that he doesn't think that, my bad, I forgot about that

[QUOTE=wewt!;46051676]Okay BeardyDuck he later said that he doesn't think that, my bad, I forgot about that[/QUOTE] By "some situations" i meant the ones where the threat is standing still and refusing to drop a knife. That kind of stuff. I am talking about the severity of the wound, mostly. But i do admit now that i might be wrong, because i dont know about the damages a tourniquet could do in a short time, like those blood clots and infections and that kind of stuff. But please just PM me, i want to know more. The tourniquet thing, its just a a thing we are trained to do in combat if serious bleeding occurs in a limb. Just PM's now please i dont want to shit up the thread even more

[QUOTE=Spherexd;46051594]Apply pressure and wait. If you cannot do anything more, then you cannot do anything more.[/QUOTE] You know that the tourniquet really is the safest thing to go to in dire situations. When properly applied (which is really easy to do) a tourniquet can last on a limb for up to 4 hours without permanent limb damage. You just have to monitor it. I should mention that I have extensive training in combat and field medicine (not a much as ilikecorn) but still.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;46052102]You know that the tourniquet really is the safest thing to go to in dire situations. When properly applied (which is really easy to do) a tourniquet can last on a limb for up to 4 hours without permanent limb damage. You just have to monitor it. I should mention that I have extensive training in combat and field medicine (not a much as ilikecorn) but still.[/QUOTE] Okay. And I'm a certified Emergency Medical Responder. I was more so arguing against the fact that he assumes the common police officer is trained or competent to do so.

I think if you're going to shoot anyone, you'd be best shooting to kill. Once something elevates to that point, there's no logical reason to stoop down any lower without sacrificing safety.

I'll tell you what I think happened, from the shots landing all at his back, he either could've been A)Lunging at one police officer while the other quickly fired six shots into his back, into the line of fire at the other officer or B)Running away from the police officers where he was shot in the back 3 times each. Look at [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar8w4DTIyhY]this video[/url], this is a man firing a glock at a rather quick pace. Notice how long it takes him to fire six shots. Thats about four seconds of constant firing. That might not seem like a long time, but count it out for me right now, in a tense situation, that is a long damn time. During that four seconds, you mean to tell me that the officer getting lunged at would be so stunned that he would not take out his pistol and shoot the man in the chest at [i]least[/i] once? I don't think so. I think what happened was simple, the man took out his sword, the officers pulled out their guns, and he ran away, sword in hand, and the officers interpreted it as a threat, and killed him.

[QUOTE=dai;46050192]well that answers that, he probably picked it up from the con. You can see a small light edge along the cutting edge of the blade, it's shaved down substantially so it's a fat area with a 90 degree edge. Not any less dangerous with the pointy end nor does it look any less threatening, but it's worth note that "buying it during the con" is probably why the parents didn't know about this thing weapon vendors at cons will wrap the box with a lot of packing tape and say you can't touch it til you get it home, so you can't "accidentally" pull it out and play with it in the open then claim "nobody told me not to". Have to make a conscious decision to get the thing out and it's beyond stupid to do anything with it out in the open, which is obviously stupid as hell to do in any situation. Now the question is just whether he was participating in a photoshoot or cosplay group hangout or something, because there may have been indications he wasn't just aimlessly running around with a sword, rather showing it off and doing poses[/QUOTE] If you can pick up swords like these in certain cons, then how come this kind of incident isn't more common? There has to be more than enough people who are stupid with these things right when they buy it, but how common is it for someone to get shot and killed by police over one of these?

There would be soo many more cop deaths if they reacted like most of you want them to, attempt to shoot moving target in leg, miss and get a sword through you.... that weeble video needs to be in every thread relating to cops shooting someone to death.

I refuse to believe that the man dressed as samurai actually [i]lunged[/i] at the officers [I]with the intention to harm[/I] until I see clear video footage of him doing exactly that. [editline]23rd September 2014[/editline] Yup, kind of a late post I know, thank you Zonesylv for the rating. But still the latest post before me was an hour ago, so it's not the end of the Universe.

[QUOTE=Str4fe;46050987]I agree, on almost all situations shooting to kill is the best way to remove the threat. Im just saying, its not as lethal as people believe. Yeah it is lethal but not as lethal as getting shot in the upper torso. Once again, i say: In the absolute worst case scenario, where bloodflow is restricted by nothing and the artery is basically hanging from your leg, pumping blood at the rate of 4 liters/min, it would take 30 seconds for an average guy to bleed to death, and even then you'd still have a chance of stopping the bleeding before its too late. [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYV2GH8j9hU#t=83[/URL][/QUOTE] Just saying, I'd rather get shot in the gut than in the thigh, and if I remember right the rate is more like 6 litres a minute, possibly more in high stress environments. The adrenaline from getting shot probably doesn't help that rate either. [editline]23rd September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Funktastic Dog;46054195]I'll tell you what I think happened, from the shots landing all at his back, he either could've been A)Lunging at one police officer while the other quickly fired six shots into his back, into the line of fire at the other officer or B)Running away from the police officers where he was shot in the back 3 times each. Look at [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar8w4DTIyhY]this video[/url], this is a man firing a glock at a rather quick pace. Notice how long it takes him to fire six shots. Thats about four seconds of constant firing. That might not seem like a long time, but count it out for me right now, in a tense situation, that is a long damn time. During that four seconds, you mean to tell me that the officer getting lunged at would be so stunned that he would not take out his pistol and shoot the man in the chest at [i]least[/i] once? I don't think so. I think what happened was simple, the man took out his sword, the officers pulled out their guns, and he ran away, sword in hand, and the officers interpreted it as a threat, and killed him.[/QUOTE] While I agree with everything else, looking at the picture, the one getting "lunged" at wouldn't have had time to react, they're within two metres of eachother, with the pistol in a secure holster with the safety on. But the other cop wouldn't have had time to get a shot off either, let alone six before the sword connected.

[QUOTE=Spherexd;46052232]Okay. And I'm a certified Emergency Medical Responder. I was more so arguing against the fact that he assumes the common police officer is trained or competent to do so.[/QUOTE] I don't think you know the training that Police Officers receive in the United States. Police Officers in the United States are most definitely trained in the application of a tourniquet since they are certified "First Responders" along with Firemen and EMT's. I personally know Police Officers that carry CAT tournequits with them (stands for combat application tourniquet). Honestly, using a tourniquet isn't science. Even a Marine can do it. [thumb]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_S4vBC-4dYZs/TG_5qLCgLwI/AAAAAAAAC4s/twpomWE5Yzc/s1600/CAT.jpg[/thumb] Really easy and simple to use. It's a shame that EMT manuals teach people to avoid tourniquet's like the plague, because they halt life threatening bleeding very quickly, and it has been proven time and time again in the field that tourniquets when [I]properly[/I] applied and continued limb checks performed that long-term damage to the limb is not likely.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;46054761]I don't think you know the training that Police Officers receive in the United States. Police Officers in the United States are most definitely trained in the application of a tourniquet since they are certified "First Responders" along with Firemen and EMT's. I personally know Police Officers that carry CAT tournequits with them (stands for combat application tourniquet). Honestly, using a tourniquet isn't science. Even a Marine can do it. Really easy and simple to use. It's a shame that EMT manuals teach people to avoid tourniquet's like the plague, because they halt life threatening bleeding very quickly, and it has been proven time and time again in the field that tourniquets when [I]properly[/I] applied and continued limb checks performed that long-term damage to the limb is not likely.[/QUOTE] I kinda doubt someone who's too stupid to even fake a basic alibi is smart enough to remember FR training.