Two-year-old accidentally shoots woman dead in US.
155 replies, posted
Hexpunk just because someone is willing to defend their life above someone elses when forced into a scenario where one of two people are GOING to die regardless, does not make them a psychopathic bloodthirsty killer.
Petty criminals in America commonly have guns. Not just knives like in the UK. And they're antsy/nervous because they're doing something extremely dangerous to get a buck. All it takes is one perceived wrong move to get stabbed or shot during a mugging. All too commonly, it doesn't even take that. A good deal of criminals gang up and beat down their targets, kill them to make sure they don't tell the cops what they look like, or fly off the handle at nothing and assault, rape, and/or kill you.
To say that it's unfair/unreasonable for someone with the ability and right to kill as a last resort of self defense instead of being killed is the only psychopathic thing going on in this thread.
That and some dumb woman carrying a condition zero pistol in her purse.
guns for everyone is a great idea
[QUOTE=Private Zoglow;46829506]guns for everyone is a great idea[/QUOTE]
Except for felons convicted of an aggressive/violent crime and people mentally unfit for firearm ownership.
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;46829640]people mentally unfit for firearm ownership.[/QUOTE]
most people
[QUOTE=ccg;46824936]At least Idaho has the death penalty. I hope this kids gets his sooner or later.[/QUOTE]
They'll give him the chair just as soon as they can find a booster seat.
I keep telling people that niggers cause deaths and we need nigger control but they keep telling me about some constitution with some human rights bullshit. Honestly we need to scrap the constitution, it was written by some old men 200 years ago, we need to make an exception for nigger control.
[highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("spammer" - GunFox))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Fort83;46829461]ultra_bright seems to think that all the military does is kill people and that everyone that joins is there just to kill people, when that's far from the truth. The military is better off without people with that mindset.
But jump the gun (no pun intended) instead of thinking about what I'm saying, that's cool.[/QUOTE]
-snip-
Refer to below post.
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;46829640]Except for felons convicted of an aggressive/violent crime and people mentally unfit for firearm ownership.[/QUOTE]
People convicted of domestic violence can't carry a weapon (which is a misdemeanor).
[QUOTE=Fort83;46831177]Dirty laundry from a different thread? He said it in this thread, dude.
Just because someone says something you dislike doesn't mean they are a "plague on SH".
This is a non-argument. ultra said something unadvised about the military. Nothing else to it.[/QUOTE]
I missed the line where he wrote:
[quote]I do, and you know what, if I wanted to kill people I would have joined the military a long time ago.[/quote]
I apologize.
[QUOTE=_Maverick_;46826269]you would happily end another person's life and watch him bleed out on the ground
you could go back home after that and sleep with a smile on your face?
is that what you are saying?[/QUOTE]
Yes. If you don't want to get shot, don't pull a knife on someone. Nobody fucking forced you to commit violent crime
[QUOTE=zzaacckk;46831218]People convicted of domestic violence can't carry a weapon (which is a misdemeanor).[/QUOTE]
Domestic violence can actually be either a misdemeanor or a felony depending on how severe it is. However, you can be charged with aggravated assault at the same time provided you use any object that could be readily defined as a "deadly weapon" (which is defined as any item which can inflict mortal or great bodily harm. So basically anything solid, sharp, or heavy), which would instantly make it felonious domestic violence + felony assault
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;46831966]Domestic violence can actually be either a misdemeanor or a felony depending on how severe it is. However, you can be charged with aggravated assault at the same time provided you use any object that could be readily defined as a "deadly weapon" (which is defined as any item which can inflict mortal or great bodily harm. So basically anything solid, sharp, or heavy), which would instantly make it felonious domestic violence + felony assault[/QUOTE]
Regardless of the severity of thevcrime, domestic assault/abuse equals an automatic revoking of the right to own firearms in the US.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;46832052]Regardless of the severity of thevcrime, domestic assault/abuse equals an automatic revoking of the right to own firearms in the US.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. If you have a history of being capable of physically abusing/savagery towards someone you're supposed to love, how can you be trusted with something like a firearm around people with whom you have no connection at all
My god guys (some of these posts). It's not like everyone who decides to carry is a gun toting psychopath that just wants to shoot at people. Also it's not like everyone who carries while getting mugged will always pull out a gun and shoot the mugger.
Any intelligent person carrying with a defensive mindset is going to do several things before it gets to that. First of all they are going to try avoid getting into a dangerous situation. If that fails then just give them whatever they want and try to get out of the dangerous situation without conflict. Only if all other options fail is usually when the weapon should come out.
Point is anyone properly trained in self defense will usually try to avoid conflict by any means necessary, but there may be times where that is simply not an option. This is why guns are considered to be an important asset for self defense for people who choose to carry.
Guns are not the end all solution to self defense and anyone who thinks they are is a fucking moron. This includes you people who think that gun owners will immediately resort to their firearms in all bad situations.
On topic: Wow this became a gun debate thread fairly quickly.
[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;46832862]
On topic: Wow this became a gun debate thread fairly quickly.[/QUOTE]
Why are you surprised? This happens literally every time an article that's even remotely related to firearms is posted
[QUOTE=Fort83;46829461]ultra_bright seems to think that all the military does is kill people and that everyone that joins is there just to kill people, when that's far from the truth. The military is better off without people with that mindset.
But jump the gun (no pun intended) instead of thinking about what I'm saying, that's cool.[/QUOTE]
If you want to kill people legally, the military (in one form or another) is your best bet. I didn't see anything uninformed in his comment about the military.
[editline]1st January 2015[/editline]
But go ahead and try to discredit him based on faulty conjecture that's cool
How will the NRA defend this? Things like this never happen in Sweden. Why you ask? Because of good gun laws, that foster people who think a little more about guns. Guns are just some casual thing in the US, but here in Sweden they are treated as a dangerous firearm. You simply can't keep blaming it on isolated accidents, or crazy people, or that they course of action is treating crazy people. Yeah that maybe not super relevant to the article in the OP, but it's just something to think about...
On the news last night they mentioned that it was a special purse that she had gotten for Christmas, with some sort of special pouch for a CC weapon, and that the child was sitting in the shopping cart with the purse as she was shopping.
Feel bad for the family, this was an unfortunate accident.
I don't know what world people are living in when they suggest that carrying a weapon is going to protect you from a street mugging.
If you're CCing, they don't know you've got it until they threaten you, and if they've already got their gun/knife out, how in the fuck are you expecting to get [I]your own[/I] weapon out before they can respond?
I genuinely don't know why anyone would [I]not[/I] immediately hand over their wallet etc. Obviously not every mugger is going to be satisfied with just that, but why would you escalate the situation even further by pulling your own gun?
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;46836531]I don't know what world people are living in when they suggest that carrying a weapon is going to protect you from a street mugging.
If you're CCing, they don't know you've got it until they threaten you, and if they've already got their gun/knife out, how in the fuck are you expecting to get [I]your own[/I] weapon out before they can respond?
I genuinely don't know why anyone would [I]not[/I] immediately hand over their wallet etc. Obviously not every mugger is going to be satisfied with just that, but why would you escalate the situation even further by pulling your own gun?[/QUOTE]
I think people really overestimate their own skills with a gun. I get it, there are tons of situations where CCing might keep you safe, but I see way too many posters that act like they're always going to have the upper hand, and that mentality can be pretty dangerous
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;46836531]I don't know what world people are living in when they suggest that carrying a weapon is going to protect you from a street mugging.
If you're CCing, they don't know you've got it until they threaten you, and if they've already got their gun/knife out, how in the fuck are you expecting to get [I]your own[/I] weapon out before they can respond?
I genuinely don't know why anyone would [I]not[/I] immediately hand over their wallet etc. Obviously not every mugger is going to be satisfied with just that, but why would you escalate the situation even further by pulling your own gun?[/QUOTE]
Because you don't pull your gun when the mugger is directly in front of you with his knife/gun out demanding money. If you've allowed the situation to get to that point you've lost.
Concealed Carrying a firearm is just a small step of defending yourself. If you're serious about it, you need to always be scanning your surroundings. Not in a paranoid fashion, it just means have good situational awareness.
For example, someone with good situational awareness would notice the mugger start tailing him until he got to a secluded area where he COULD mug him. At that point, the person concealed carrying has a couple of choices. Change course and start heading towards a place with more people, if that isn't an option turn into a house and pretend to be visiting friends (explain to the homeowner and ask if you can just step inside for one minute, or just have a conversation with them. This should deter the mugger). Lastly, if neither of those options are available, by this point you should have your hand on it, but keeping it concealed, just in case.
You continue with what you're doing, keeping an eye on the would-be mugger, until he starts to make his move or leaves. When he makes his obvious move (starting walking faster towards you, reaching into his pocket(s), etc) you reposition yourself and greet him as if you're just saying hi to a stranger. If at any point during his walk towards you, his hand goes into a pocket or a coat or his waistband and his demeanor is aggressive, you tell him he needs to back off. If he doesn't, you reveal the handle of your cc pistol (but not pull it out and aim it at him/her) and repeat, again, that he needs to back off. If by this point he hasn't run away, you need to pull it out and use it because he's dead set on mugging you and he either has a knife/gun, or he doesn't think you'll use yours.
Obviously different situations call for different responses but the key word is "Situational Awareness".
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;46837596]Because you don't pull your gun when the mugger is directly in front of you with his knife/gun out demanding money. If you've allowed the situation to get to that point you've lost.
Concealed Carrying a firearm is just a small step of defending yourself. If you're serious about it, you need to always be scanning your surroundings. Not in a paranoid fashion, it just means have good situational awareness.
For example, someone with good situational awareness would notice the mugger start tailing him until he got to a secluded area where he COULD mug him. At that point, the person concealed carrying has a couple of choices. Change course and start heading towards a place with more people, if that isn't an option turn into a house and pretend to be visiting friends (explain to the homeowner and ask if you can just step inside for one minute, or just have a conversation with them. This should deter the mugger). Lastly, if neither of those options are available, by this point you should have your hand on it, but keeping it concealed, just in case.
You continue with what you're doing, keeping an eye on the would-be mugger, until he starts to make his move or leaves. When he makes his obvious move (starting walking faster towards you, reaching into his pocket(s), etc) you reposition yourself and greet him as if you're just saying hi to a stranger. If at any point during his walk towards you, his hand goes into a pocket or a coat or his waistband and his demeanor is aggressive, you tell him he needs to back off. If he doesn't, you reveal the handle of your cc pistol (but not pull it out and aim it at him/her) and repeat, again, that he needs to back off. If by this point he hasn't run away, you need to pull it out and use it because he's dead set on mugging you and he either has a knife/gun, or he doesn't think you'll use yours.
Obviously different situations call for different responses but the key word is "Situational Awareness".[/QUOTE]
Keeping a vigilant eye out works just as well for people without a weapon as for people [I]with[/I] one.
Besides, that example does nothing to go against the issue I pointed out; you're working on the assumption that, after having shown the weapon's handle and the mugger's not having bolted, you're able to get the weapon out and effective before you get shot or stabbed.
[QUOTE=Snoberry Tea;46837596]Because you don't pull your gun when the mugger is directly in front of you with his knife/gun out demanding money. If you've allowed the situation to get to that point you've lost.
Concealed Carrying a firearm is just a small step of defending yourself. If you're serious about it, you need to always be scanning your surroundings. Not in a paranoid fashion, it just means have good situational awareness.
For example, someone with good situational awareness would notice the mugger start tailing him until he got to a secluded area where he COULD mug him. At that point, the person concealed carrying has a couple of choices. Change course and start heading towards a place with more people, if that isn't an option turn into a house and pretend to be visiting friends (explain to the homeowner and ask if you can just step inside for one minute, or just have a conversation with them. This should deter the mugger). Lastly, if neither of those options are available, by this point you should have your hand on it, but keeping it concealed, just in case.
You continue with what you're doing, keeping an eye on the would-be mugger, until he starts to make his move or leaves. When he makes his obvious move (starting walking faster towards you, reaching into his pocket(s), etc) you reposition yourself and greet him as if you're just saying hi to a stranger. If at any point during his walk towards you, his hand goes into a pocket or a coat or his waistband and his demeanor is aggressive, you tell him he needs to back off. If he doesn't, you reveal the handle of your cc pistol (but not pull it out and aim it at him/her) and repeat, again, that he needs to back off. If by this point he hasn't run away, you need to pull it out and use it because he's dead set on mugging you and he either has a knife/gun, or he doesn't think you'll use yours.
Obviously different situations call for different responses but the key word is "Situational Awareness".[/QUOTE]
Do you really think most muggings happen like that, though? Don't you think that's one of the most obvious ways a mugger could possibly go on about things and that they'd avoid doing that, especially in an area that allows concealed carry?
Yes, you might have situational awareness and that might help you in some scenarios, but muggers aren't always going to give you time to realize what's happening. They're not gonna slowly walk behind you til they find the time to strike, giving you the opportunity to scare him off. They'll most likely run up to you from a place where they can have their weapon drawn or ready to be, and they're probably not gonna be oblivious to whether or not they can be seen.
Most muggers aren't going to make it obvious they're about to rob you, and even then, situational awareness or not, they might still catch you offguard unless you're some kind of action hero. And when they close in fast enough and get their weapon out, you trying to use your gun is only gonna make it worse.
And this is exactly the mentality I'm talking about. You're not always going to have the upper hand, and you're probably not gonna be in control of the situation, so don't kid yourself into thinking that you're always gonna be in that scenario
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;46836531]I don't know what world people are living in when they suggest that carrying a weapon is going to protect you from a street mugging.[/QUOTE]
Are you too lazy to do a google search and find stories about this actually occurring? Because there are plenty of them out there, in addition to a plethora of news reports about CC holders stopping robberies.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;46838763]They're not gonna slowly walk behind you til they find the time to strike, giving you the opportunity to scare him off. They'll most likely run up to you from a place where they can have their weapon drawn or ready to be, and they're probably not gonna be oblivious to whether or not they can be seen.[/QUOTE]
I've never heard an officer or victim describe a mugging like this. The most common mugging profile is someone who acts normally until he gets very close, at which point he draws a knife or gun and demands money, usually against someone who just happens to be walking past them. Sprinting down an empty street to chase someone down is not how a criminal generally surprises a victim.
Nobody's saying a CC allows you to always have the upper hand or never be caught off-guard, but having situational awareness and a weapon dramatically increases the likelihood that you can avoid being mugged.
[QUOTE=catbarf;46838989]I've never heard an officer or victim describe a mugging like this. The most common mugging profile is someone who acts normally until he gets very close, at which point he draws a knife or gun and demands money, usually against someone who just happens to be walking past them. Sprinting down an empty street to chase someone down is not how a criminal generally surprises a victim.[/quote]
I'm not saying they'll literally start running from 20ft away with a gun in hand, I'm saying when they're close enough they'll most likely not want to give you time to react, or they'll wait for you in a good spot.
[quote]Nobody's saying a CC allows you to always have the upper hand or never be caught off-guard, but having situational awareness and a weapon dramatically increases the likelihood that you can avoid being mugged.[/QUOTE]
I know that's not exactly what they're saying but it's the one scenario I always see being described. People seem to expect a blatantly obvious mugging where they're gonna have a good chance to react more than a situation where they'll be caught offguard.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;46839041]I'm not saying they'll literally start running from 20ft away with a gun in hand, I'm saying when they're close enough they'll most likely not want to give you time to react, or they'll wait for you in a good spot.
I know that's not exactly what they're saying but it's the one scenario I always see being described. People seem to expect a blatantly obvious mugging where they're gonna have a good chance to react more than a situation where they'll be caught offguard.[/QUOTE]
That's the whole point of situational awareness, so that you're not caught off guard. I'm not saying it's a guarantee that you won't, but it does drastically increase your probability of seeing something coming and avoiding it before it could ever happen.
And remember folks, there's a huge difference between vigilance and paranoia. Having good situation awareness does not equate to being a paranoid fuck. It's something that can assist you in all walks of life, not just avoiding getting mugged.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;46837789]Keeping a vigilant eye out works just as well for people without a weapon as for people [I]with[/I] one.
Besides, that example does nothing to go against the issue I pointed out; you're working on the assumption that, after having shown the weapon's handle and the mugger's not having bolted, you're able to get the weapon out and effective before you get shot or stabbed.[/QUOTE]
Of course keeping a vigilant eye out works for everyone, but everyone (including you) keeps working on the assumption that you're not pulling your gun out until the mugger is right in front of you.
You pull the gun out when, knowing you are aware of his presence and knowing you are in possession of a gun, the mugger continues his approach.
Showing the handle of the pistol should happen well before he gets within stabbing range of you.
[editline]2nd January 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;46838763]Do you really think most muggings happen like that, though? Don't you think that's one of the most obvious ways a mugger could possibly go on about things and that they'd avoid doing that, especially in an area that allows concealed carry?
Yes, you might have situational awareness and that might help you in some scenarios, but muggers aren't always going to give you time to realize what's happening. They're not gonna slowly walk behind you til they find the time to strike, giving you the opportunity to scare him off. They'll most likely run up to you from a place where they can have their weapon drawn or ready to be, and they're probably not gonna be oblivious to whether or not they can be seen.
Most muggers aren't going to make it obvious they're about to rob you, and even then, situational awareness or not, they might still catch you offguard unless you're some kind of action hero. And when they close in fast enough and get their weapon out, you trying to use your gun is only gonna make it worse.
And this is exactly the mentality I'm talking about. You're not always going to have the upper hand, and you're probably not gonna be in control of the situation, so don't kid yourself into thinking that you're always gonna be in that scenario[/QUOTE]
Definitely. Shit happens. The situation might not be in your control.
But I'd damn well rather have a gun on my hip and not be able to use it, then NOT have a gun on my hip in a situation where having it could have saved my life / prevented a grievous injury.
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;46838763]And this is exactly the mentality I'm talking about. You're not always going to have the upper hand, and you're probably not gonna be in control of the situation, so don't kid yourself into thinking that you're always gonna be in that scenario[/QUOTE]
I understand your point, but I'd rather have the chance and the utilities to fend for myself. Just because the cards [I]can[/I] be against you doesn't mean they always will, nor does that mean we should stop this whole gun thing.
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