Michigan State Rep. Lisa Brown Banned from Speaking After Opposing Abortion Law - Polidicks

Lankist can you fucking read this guy said HEY we should have abortions because the mother can die in childbirth well no-one was saying if it's a choice between maybe the baby or the mother then kill them both were they Golden seems to think that babies that would have aborted but weren't are more dangerous or something.

[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;36348466]Then you're taking away their liberty to get the benefits without paying taxes.[/QUOTE] That is not a liberty, nor is it constitutionally guaranteed. Please research Roe v. Wade and at least [I]try[/I] to understand why women have the right to choose as per the Constitution. Your argument: "I have to pay taxes therefore end abortion." ???????????? [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;36348479]Lankist can you fucking read this guy said HEY we should have abortions because the mother can die in childbirth.[/QUOTE] No, he said the mother should have the option. The mother is the one taking the risk, she should be the one to make the decision. Neither the father nor the government is risking their own life for it. If everything goes horribly awry, it's the mother and the mother alone who could end up in a casket. She is the only one who gets to choose whether or not that is a risk worth taking. Not you. Not the father. And not some fat, white, bald man in a legislative session.

Listen I'm going to level with you I'm PUI but honestly this is the most fun I've had on Facepunch in possibly ever but I'm out of beer and it's twenty past three and if I don't sleep soon I'm going to go all existential so I'm gone. But you were great, really wonderful I hope you've all had fun too and if not well find something else to do no-one's making you argue seriously you're all fucking lovely I love you - and by the way: not eating for a day and then drinking own brand lager is the most fun you can have for under a fiver. gOOD NIGHT nEW yORK [IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m58me5a2Gw1rnbso2.gif[/IMG] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("PUI" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Lankist;36348304]Please define "alive." Because human embryos do not qualify as "alive" by current scientific understanding of the criteria of life.[/QUOTE] A fetus does. Embryo is only one stage.

[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;36348509]Listen I'm going to level with you I'm PUI but honestly this is the most fun I've had on Facepunch in possibly ever but I'm out of beer and it's twenty past three and if I don't sleep soon I'm going to go all existential so I'm gone. But you were great, really wonderful I hope you've all had fun too and if not well find something else to do no-one's making you argue seriously you're all fucking lovely I love you - and by the way: not eating for a day and then drinking own brand lager is the most fun you can have for under a fiver. gOOD NIGHT nEW yORK[/QUOTE] I give you twenty minutes before you're back. People who are actually leaving don't make "I'm leaving" posts.

And even an embryo qualifies as alive what the fuck are you talking about?

[QUOTE=Lankist;36348483]That is not a liberty, nor is it constitutionally guaranteed. Please research Roe v. Wade and at least [I]try[/I] to understand why women have the right to choose as per the Constitution. Your argument: "I have to pay taxes therefore end abortion." ????????????[/QUOTE] I'm not against abortion, I'm just against that argument. And while I'll admit I'm not well-versed in politics, much less american politics, I'm not so much as interested in what the law is as what it should be.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36348515]A fetus does. Embryo is only one stage.[/QUOTE] Fetus doesn't meet the criteria of life, either, actually. At least not until it is survivable enough to be delivered safely.

It is capable of locomotion, reproduction, metabolism, it reacts to its environment, and it grows over time. That's totally life.

[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;36348522]I'm not against abortion, I'm just against that argument. And while I'll admit I'm not well-versed in politics, much less american politics, I'm not so much as interested in what the law is as what it should be.[/QUOTE] If you aren't interested in the law then stop posting in a story about what happened in a fucking legislative session in America. [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;36348531]It is capable of locomotion, reproduction, metabolism, it reacts to its environment, and it grows over time. That's totally life.[/QUOTE] It isn't capable of those things on it's own until it reached a certain point. That point is late in the process and different for each. Sometimes children are born incapable of those things (stillborn.) It has to be capable of those things [I]independently.[/I] All of them. A virus is capable of those things by exploiting other organisms, but a virus isn't alive.

[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;36348509]Listen I'm going to level with you I'm PUI but honestly this is the most fun I've had on Facepunch in possibly ever but I'm out of beer and it's twenty past three and if I don't sleep soon I'm going to go all existential so I'm gone. But you were great, really wonderful I hope you've all had fun too and if not well find something else to do no-one's making you argue seriously you're all fucking lovely I love you - and by the way: not eating for a day and then drinking own brand lager is the most fun you can have for under a fiver. gOOD NIGHT nEW yORK [IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m58me5a2Gw1rnbso2.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] night blud, hope you feel fucking stupid in the morning

[QUOTE=Lankist;36348539] It isn't capable of those things on it's own.[/QUOTE] Yea it is, what do you know about embyros? It can do every one of those things, and does all of those things on its own. [editline]16th June 2012[/editline] So what is considered life then?

[QUOTE=Strongbad;36345525]Except if the Democrats have their way, it's "Land of the idealistic teenagers and extremists." [/QUOTE] oh yeah mixed market economies and nationalized health care, [i]so extreme[/i]

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36348549]It can do every one of those things, and does all of those things on its own.[/QUOTE] No it can't. That's why it's in a woman to begin with. Life must be able to metabolize, reproduce and die [I]on its own[/I]. Viruses can do all of those things by infecting another organism, but [I]not on its own.[/I] Developing embryos and fetuses are wholly reliant on the mother's metabolism. Their reproductive structures don't even exist until very late in the process.

[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;36348293]"Hi, I'm Lankist. I'm a lawyer and I'm going to sperg about legal terms on the internet with teenagers because I have no other way to feel superior." I mean godDAMN man, I'm just having fun with this shit.[/QUOTE] do you have any conception of shame??

[QUOTE=thisispain;36348558]oh yeah mixed market economies and nationalized health care, [i]so extreme[/i][/QUOTE] mixed market economics are fucking [I]radical[/I]

[QUOTE=Lankist;36348539]If you aren't interested in the law then stop posting in a story about what happened in a fucking legislative session in America. [editline]15th June 2012[/editline] It isn't capable of those things on it's own.[/QUOTE] What? I'm not interested in whether it's allowed by American law, venezuelan law, whatever. I'm not even talking about the article anymore. I'm merely discussing if it should be allowed and the law system should incorporate it, not the problems we would get by incorporating it.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36348561]No it can't. That's why it's in a woman to begin with. Life must be able to metabolize, reproduce and die [I]on its own[/I]. Viruses can do all of those things by infecting another organism, but [I]not on its own.[/I] Developing embryos and fetuses are wholly reliant on the mother's metabolism. Their reproductive structures don't even exist until very late in the process.[/QUOTE] The cells metabolize, reproduce, move, grow, and react independently of the mother. Either way, your definition would mean someone on life support isn't alive, therefor is moral to destroy it.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36348607]The cells metabolize, reproduce, move, grow, and react independently of the mother.[/QUOTE] No, [I]they can't[/I]. The developing embryo/fetus is connected to the mother's peripheral nervous system. It doesn't metabolize its own nutrients, it is fed nutrients which have been partially/wholly metabolized through the mother's body. Its bloodflow is the mother's bloodflow. Shit, babies don't even have red marrow until fuck knows when.

[QUOTE=Lankist;36348619]No, [I]they can't[/I]. The developing embryo/fetus is connected to the mother's peripheral nervous system. It doesn't metabolize its own nutrients, it is fed nutrients which have been partially/wholly metabolized through the mother's body.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The cell cannot just get fed nutrients and be alive. The cell must be capable of using those nutrients. Metabolism isn't just something you see in macro organisms, it happens at the micro level as well.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36348607]Either way, your definition would mean someone on life support isn't alive[/QUOTE] There is a difference between being physiologically incapable of those things and being damaged to the point of being unable.

And again, does that mean that someone reliant on life support isn't alive?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36348607]The cells metabolize, reproduce, move, grow, and react independently of the mother. Either way, your definition would mean someone on life support isn't alive, therefor is moral to destroy it.[/QUOTE] There's a nuance between what's a living organism and what's a concious being.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36348637]I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The cell cannot just get fed nutrients and be alive. The cell must be capable of using those nutrients. Metabolism isn't just something you see in macro organisms, it happens at the micro level as well.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about the cell, I'm talking about the organism. If you're arguing that the killing of cells is morally wrong, then I hope you've never jacked off in your life because you'll have committed billions of counts of infanticide. That kind of logic is untenable. (furthermore, embryonic and fetal cells, like all human cells, are programmed to die when the larger organism can't sustain itself.)

[QUOTE=Lankist;36348639]There is a difference between being physiologically incapable of those things and being damaged to the point of being unable.[/QUOTE] Why?

the question of whether or not a foetus is life is completely irrelevant to whether or not it's a human being, which it is not.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36348637]I'm sorry, but you're wrong. The cell cannot just get fed nutrients and be alive. The cell must be capable of using those nutrients. Metabolism isn't just something you see in macro organisms, it happens at the micro level as well.[/QUOTE] If it wasn't just fed those nutrients, it couldn't use them.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36348651]Why?[/QUOTE] What do you mean why? A body that is physiologically incapable is not the same as a body that is practically incapable. That's like asking why apples and oranges are different.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;36348644]There's a nuance between what's a living organism and what's a concious being.[/QUOTE] He's saying that its not alive, I'm not talking about consciousness. It is obviously alive. Consciousness is something that we can't really measure so it isn't like you or anyone can really determine in another organism.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36348661]He's saying that its not alive, I'm not talking about consciousness. It is obviously alive. Consciousness is something that we can't really measure so it isn't like you or anyone can really determine in another organism.[/QUOTE] You do realize that human cells are capable of this thing called apoptosis. When the larger organism is suffering and dying, or is otherwise incapable of sustaining itself, its cells literally self-destruct. As in, even the individual cells could not survive outside of the mother on a basic, genetic level (presuming they are not cancerous.) If the larger organism cannot sustain itself independently (it can't,) then the individual cells fucking [I]kill themselves.[/I]