Donald Trump tweets 'Pocahontas' racist slur about senator Elizabeth Warren
139 replies, posted
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851367]Why are you all comparing the name "Pocahontas" to racial slurs? If anything it would be like calling someone "George Washington" for falsely claiming to be American.[/QUOTE]
Why is my comparison not apt?
[quote]It'd be like calling a very light skinned african-american "blackface"[/quote]
Blackface isn't a racial slur. In my scenario it's used for the same purpose, to deride someone for not being "enough" of a race. It's racist, plain and simple
Even if it WASN'T obviously a slur (it is) how can you really defend the POTUS name-calling a Senator of the United States in a public forum?
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851386]
Can you clarify its history as a racial slurs? Where was it used as such?[/QUOTE]because you are generalizing the idea of race down to a fictional character and using that generalization to insult someone
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;52851393]The reason why it's a slur is because it reduces someone to just their race. It implies that they're defined solely by their heritage in a demeaning way, which is why it's wrong. Not that hard to grasp.[/QUOTE]
The joke isn't defining her by race. It's making fun of Warren for doing so falsely.
It isn't saying that her Native American heritage is dumb or meaningless, but that she made it up for personal benefit.
[editline]3rd November 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;52851402]Even if it WASN'T obviously a slur (it is) how can you really defend the POTUS name-calling a Senator of the United States in a public forum?[/QUOTE]
I don't defend him doing it. It was stupid. I hate his tweeting in general.
I can both not agree with it while also not thinking it was racist.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851134]There's nothing racist about it. The joke is that she claimed to be Native American, but she's only like 1/16 with no proof at all.
It's not mocking native Americans. It's mocking Warren for being as white as anyone and trying to claim minority status.[/QUOTE]
Are you really going that low to defend Trump? Are you really one of those people who would watch him shot someone dead on national television and see nothing wrong with it?
Please, please tell us you are just trolling.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851371]The 1/16 was an arbitrary number I threw out there. She has no proof at all. It could be 0% for all we know.
Remember, she claimed to be Native American to her employers, who in turn listed her as a minority professor.[/QUOTE]
"Hi, yes ma'am I'll need you to produce papers to prove your racial background to me and only then will I not use racist remarks against you"
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52851400]Blackface isn't a racial slur. In my scenario it's used for the same purpose, to deride someone for not being "enough" of a race. It's racist, plain and simple[/QUOTE]
Calling someone "blackface" is obviously a slur.
Like I said before, it would be like me saying, "Hey, look at George Washington over here," to someone who is falsely claiming to be American. Pocahontas just so happens to be the single most well known female native American name out there.
There's context for everything. Being sarcastic and jokingly throwing that word around with your friends over a beer or w/e isn't something to get upset over. BUT, it shouldn't come out of the president's mouth (or hands because he typed it). If there is one job where you must excel in your professionalism and be especialy warry of your choice of words, if being president of one of the most powerfull country on Earth isn't it, then I don't know what is.
I bet there was not critical thinking behind that tweet. It's safe to say he just threw that word out there for everyone to see without even reading his message a second time.
[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;52851416]"Hi, yes ma'am I'll need you to produce papers to prove your racial background to me and only then will I not use racist remarks against you"[/QUOTE]
You say that as a joke, but you do actually have to provide proof when claiming to be Native American for employment reasons. You also have to show a concurrent relationship with a recognized tribe. Warren did neither of these.
[editline]3rd November 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Damjen;52851412]Are you really going that low to defend Trump? Are you really one of those people who would watch him shot someone dead on national television and see nothing wrong with it?
Please, please tell us you are just trolling.[/QUOTE]
If you read the post right before you, I don't like it. I think Trump needs to drop his stupid twitter because he obviously can't handle it. I think it was incredibly unprofessional. Etc.
I just also happen to not think it was racist.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851422]Calling someone "blackface" is obviously a slur.
Like I said before, it would be like me saying, "Hey, look at George Washington over here," to someone who is falsely claiming to be American. Pocahontas just so happens to be the single most well known female native American name out there.[/QUOTE]
Let's be super pedantic about examples then, and stick to fictional characters like Trump did. Would you call a light skinned guy who claims african-american heritage Django? Would you call a white dude who claims hispanic heritage Speedy Gonzales? Maybe Sulu for the guy with asian heritage? This is blatantly fucking racist
Stop being such a nigger kike faggot, sgman. ;)
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Rude" - Mezzokoko))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851371]The 1/16 was an arbitrary number I threw out there. She has no proof at all. It could be 0% for all we know.
[/QUOTE]
So we have no proof, aren't claiming to have proof but still making admittedly baseless claims that she isn't a valid member of said group on what exactly? :thinking:
You can be part Native American and not be dark skinned after all, so simple ethnic appearance is out the window as a valid form of evidence. Maybe we should have some evidence before making baseless claims to justify primary school yard tier racism?
[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;52851438]So we have no proof, aren't claiming to have proof but still making admittedly baseless claims that she isn't a valid member of said group on what exactly? :thinking:
You can be part Native American and not be dark skinned after all, so simple ethnic appearance is out the window as a valid form of evidence.[/QUOTE]
The fact that she's listed as a "minority" professor by her previous employers, but didn't meet the legal requirements for doing so?
How about the fact that her own family is all over the place on whether there's any Native American heritage or not?
How about the fact that she doesn't even know who her Native American ancestors were?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52851434]Let's be super pedantic about examples then, and stick to fictional characters like Trump did. Would you call a light skinned guy who claims african-american heritage Django? Would you call a white dude who claims hispanic heritage Speedy Gonzales? Maybe Sulu for the guy with asian heritage? This is blatantly fucking racist[/QUOTE]
I'm not defending sgman91 here, but Pocahontas [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocahontas]isn't a fictional character.[/url]
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851443]The fact that she's listed as a "minority" professor by her previous employers, but didn't meet the legal requirements for doing so?
How about the fact that her own family is all over the place on whether there's any Native American heritage or not?
How about the fact that she doesn't even know who her Native American ancestors were?[/QUOTE]
trump called her pocahontas for a reason and it was to be condescending while referencing heritage
it was a slur
[QUOTE=Flicky;52851451]I'm not defending sgman91 here, but Pocahontas [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocahontas]isn't a fictional character.[/url][/QUOTE]
My bad, I keep seeing this news posted alongside the Disney movie poster so that's what comes to mind
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52851434]Let's be super pedantic about examples then, and stick to fictional characters like Trump did. Would you call a light skinned guy who claims african-american heritage Django? Would you call a white dude who claims hispanic heritage Speedy Gonzales? Maybe Sulu for the guy with asian heritage? This is blatantly fucking racist[/QUOTE]
What you call "super pedantic" I call "attempting to be accurate."
Why do you keep using examples that have previous racial baggage? As far as I know, Pocahontas doesn't have any of that. She's a Native American woman beloved by the general American society (based on the totally made up story of her in the Disney movie). She's a real person in actual history who's thought of positively.
That's why I used the example of George Washington, as probably the single most well known American who's closely associated with being American. (Just like Pocahontas is the most well known female Native American who's associated with traditional Native American culture.)
Why do you get to ignore my example, but I must take yours at face value without being considered "pedantic?" I've given very specific reasons for why I think my example is a good one.
The intention of words should be the deciding factor, Trump intended it to be derogatory mocking her claimed heritage.
If I say "pierre eat le bagette" to a friend then theres probably no problem, Trump however HATES Warren and no doubt intended it to be offensive/mocking apparent ethnicity.
is this gonna be another sgman1 semantic squirm(TM)?
[QUOTE=Alec W;52851453]trump called her pocahontas for a reason and it was to be condescending while referencing heritage
it was a slur[/QUOTE]
The point is that she isn't Native American. That's the joke. There's zero condemnation or condescension against actual Native Americans.
[editline]3rd November 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52851472]The intention of words should be the deciding factor, Trump intended it to be derogatory mocking her claimed heritage.
If I say "pierre eat le bagette" to a friend then theres probably no problem, Trump however HATES Warren and no doubt intended it to be offensive/mocking apparent ethnicity.
is this gonna be another sgman1 semantic squirm(TM)?[/QUOTE]
He's not mocking her claimed heritage. He's mocking her for being dishonest. Yes, of course it's an intended insult, but the insult is directly squared at Warren's perceived dishonesty, not Native American heritage. The joke wouldn't even make sense if Trump actually thought Warren was Native American.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851134]There's nothing racist about it.[/QUOTE]
Wow.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851473]The point is that she isn't Native American. That's the joke. There's zero condemnation or condescension against actual Native Americans.
[editline]3rd November 2017[/editline]
He's not mocking her claimed heritage. He's mocking her for being dishonest. Yes, of course it's an intended insult, but the insult is directly squarely at Warren's perceived dishonesty, not Native American heritage. The joke wouldn't even make sense if Trump actually thought Warren was Native American.[/QUOTE]
What if she is native American, though.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851409]The joke isn't defining her by race. It's making fun of Warren for doing so falsely.
It isn't saying that her Native American heritage is dumb or meaningless, but that she made it up for personal benefit.
[editline]3rd November 2017[/editline]
I don't defend him doing it. It was stupid. I hate his tweeting in general.
I can both not agree with it while also not thinking it was racist.[/QUOTE]
So which is it? Is it false, or is 1/16th which IIRC is the legal requirement one must meet to be considered of that heritage?
You can't have your cake and eat it too
I didn't know who she was so I had to Google it. And from the picture alone i didn"t get why Trump would call her that. After read through the thread I now kind of get what he was trying, but really? This is the "leader of the free world", and he is public insulting a public figure like this? I've long given up to thinking Trump is a rational man, but this is not only am insult to Warren, but the American people and its heritage.
What I'm trying to say, this is not how an grow ass man should behave.
[QUOTE=Spleet;52851485]What if she is native American, though.[/QUOTE]
Then the joke wouldn't work?
[editline]3rd November 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52851486]So which is it? Is it false, or is 1/16th which IIRC is the legal requirement one must meet to be considered of that heritage?
You can't have your cake and eat it too[/QUOTE]
I already stated that the 1/16 number was just thrown out as an example. We actually have no idea because Warren has nothing hard to base her claim on. She doesn't even know who here claimed Native American ancestors were. No one in her family has any relationship with the current tribes. Etc.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851473]The point is that she isn't Native American. That's the joke. There's zero condemnation or condescension against actual Native Americans.
[editline]3rd November 2017[/editline]
He's not mocking her claimed heritage. He's mocking her for being dishonest. Yes, of course it's an intended insult, but the insult is directly squared at Warren's perceived dishonesty, not Native American heritage. The joke wouldn't even make sense if Trump actually thought Warren was Native American.[/QUOTE]
Your line of thinking is wrong. He's mad at her for her dishonesty, so he mocks her using her perceived race. Like what the whole thread is saying.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851490]Then the joke wouldn't work?
[/QUOTE]
What??
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851490]Then the joke wouldn't work?[/QUOTE]
You keep calling it a joke as if that makes it ok. Even if it was a joke and if the person he was referring to wasn't actually part of the ethnicity he'd make it out to be, it'd still be a racist remark.
[QUOTE=Zero!;52851488]What I'm trying to say, this is not how an grow ass man should behave.[/QUOTE]
Like I've said multiple times: I agree that it is stupid. I agree it is unpresidential. I agree he should have his twitter taken away. Etc.
I just don't think it's racist.
I think its pretty sad sgman made that comment two hours and has generated 51 comments about it, and has basically derailed a thread again.
He reduced a woman down to her race. I think that's fairly racist.
Whatever it is - it's fucking ridiculous that the leader of any nation could get away with this.
[QUOTE=sgman91;52851490]Then the joke wouldn't work?[/QUOTE]
Even if it was a "joke" like you're saying, that doesn't justify it. This man is the President of the United States of America, and he just made a racially charged statement deriding a US Senator for the race she identifies as.
Imagine for a moment if a president like Richard Nixon made a comment in a speech about Congresswoman [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jordan]Barbara Jordan,[/url] and said "Harriet Tubman over there has no idea what she's doing." Even though Tubman was a figure who is celebrated and remembered positively, it still carries overtones that are just as insulting and racist.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.