[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40506707]A space marine fathering a child isn't necessary to disprove the theory that Space Marines are genetically different from humans. I believe gene therapy is therapy for their gene seeds like chemical therapy or that hypnotic stuff they do. Didnt Games Workshop write something detailing the creation of a space marine? I'm just going off from what I remember from the stuff they wrote.[/QUOTE]
From the background they actually detail that both their XY chromosones change completely to an uh Z chromosone. And also have this as the reason why no women can be spacemarines. The Y essentially acts as a stopgag for a number of other changes before it's converted as well. Without it you get a wreathing mess of flesh.
[quote]I believe gene therapy is therapy for their gene seeds like chemical therapy or that hypnotic stuff they do. Didnt Games Workshop write something detailing the creation of a space marine? I'm just going off from what I remember from the stuff they wrote.[/quote]
Hypnotherapy is, basically, a combination of brainwashing them to get them to believe what theyw ant them to, and as a means to create and develop new neural pathways that allow them to use and controls a lot of their organs. There's also chemical therapy as well which [I]helps[/I] settle the organs into place. Though chemical therapy is only used during implantation, and so something must have changed permanantly in order for them to not require constant chemical treatments, and that change would have to be DNA.
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;40506757]From the background they actually detail that both their XY chromosones change completely to an uh Z chromosone. And also have this as the reason why no women can be spacemarines. The Y essentially acts as a stopgag for a number of other changes before it's converted as well. Without it you get a wreathing mess of flesh.[/QUOTE]
Well, its no females because geneseed and the resultant organs are dependant upon male horomones.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;40506757]From the background they actually detail that both their XY chromosones change completely to an uh Z chromosone. And also have this as the reason why no women can be spacemarines. The Y essentially acts as a stopgag for a number of other changes before it's converted as well. Without it you get a wreathing mess of flesh.[/QUOTE]
Where was that from? If we're going down the science route, swapping around chromosomes across the countless amount of cells in the human body would fuck that person up, despite whatever chemical therapy you can do.
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;40506803]Hypnotherapy is, basically, a combination of brainwashing them to get them to believe what theyw ant them to, and as a means to create and develop new neural pathways that allow them to use and controls a lot of their organs. There's also chemical therapy as well which [I]helps[/I] settle the organs into place. Though chemical therapy is only used during implantation, and so something must have changed permanantly in order for them to not require constant chemical treatments, and that change would have to be DNA[/QUOTE]
Last I heard was that they require regulatory check ups and in put of chemicals to regulate their gene-seeds.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;40506637]For being genetically different, you answered your own thing, gene therapy changes your genes and the amount in making a marine would make them different.[/QUOTE]
Well, that depends on whether it touches the gametes or not. But given the incredible hormonal fuckery implied by the size and other changes, chances are the balls are bodgered no matter what happens.
[quote]Except in the case of Space Marines, that arete is often fatal. They are trained in fighting and survival and pushed to the edge of their mental and physical capalities, of which not all survive. Not comparable at all to the ancient greeks.[/quote]
Grimdark and all that. Besides, it's a reference, not explicit.
[quote]Where was that from? If we're going down the science route, swapping around chromosomes across the countless amount of cells in the human body would fuck that person up, despite whatever chemical therapy you can do.[/quote]
Where do you think the casualty rate comes from?
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40508177]Where do you think the casualty rate comes from?[/QUOTE]
From the complex and intense training and therapy they go through. See that theory will kill anyone who was willing to become a space marine. The crazy ass (impossible) organs they receive alone are dangerous enough. Even if they accept them, space marines require regulatory doses of drugs to keep them working and accepted.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508370]From the complex and intense training and therapy they go through. See that theory will kill anyone who was willing to become a space marine. The crazy ass (impossible) organs they receive alone are dangerous enough. Even if they accept them, space marines require regulatory doses of drugs to keep them working and accepted.[/QUOTE]
I really wouldn't doubt RayvenQ on this
they're genetically different than people
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40508445]I really wouldn't doubt RayvenQ on this
they're genetically different than people[/QUOTE]
I'm going by what's written as canon from Games Workshop. From what I've read, space marines are not modified to the extent that their entire DNA sequencing is changed.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508651]I'm going by what's written as canon from Games Workshop. From what I've read, space marines are not modified to the extent that their entire DNA sequencing is changed.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]They are barely human at all, but superhuman; having been made superior in all respects to a normal man by a harsh regime of genetic modification, psycho-conditioning and rigorous training[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]once his body has been forged into that of a superhuman Astartes, he must forever stand apart from the people to whom he was once kin and who he is now sworn to protect. Once a man becomes a Space Marine, he is no longer mortal; his genetic heritage is now that of the Emperor Himself, and a spark of the same divine majesty flows in his veins.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]All Space Marine Chapters use the gene-seed organs to unleash and control the metabolic processes that transform an ordinary mortal into a Space Marine. The gene-seed itself is encoded with all the genetic information needed to reshape ordinary human cell clusters into the special organs [/QUOTE]
yeah but in 5 minutes i've found evidence that you're wrong
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508651]I'm going by what's written as canon from Games Workshop. From what I've read, space marines are not modified to the extent that their entire DNA sequencing is changed.[/QUOTE]
No but likely enough to make them biologically incompatible, given the extensiveness of the changes.
Besides, as I said, even if you were right, it doesnt matter because (ecept for certain chaos marines) they have no libedo whatsoever.
Also, you do realise just how conflicting GW's canon is, don't you.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508370]From the complex and intense training and therapy they go through. See that theory will kill anyone who was willing to become a space marine. The crazy ass (impossible) organs they receive alone are dangerous enough. Even if they accept them, space marines require regulatory doses of drugs to keep them working and accepted.[/QUOTE]
Only during the neophyte time when their bodies and the organs after that are pretty much in the clear, and they dont need regular drug doses,at least not for geneseed maintainence, they may get drugs or stimulants injected into them during combat but thats it. they may go for regular checkups, but thats more to do with keeping an eye on the development of the geneseed than anything else (it takes 5 years minimum for the throat progenoid gland to fully mature into a geneseed)
I have an uncle who works at the Austin Bioware (KoTOR) so I'll ask him about this.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40508721]yeah but in 5 minutes i've found evidence that you're wrong[/QUOTE]
Still haven't found me the quote where it states their DNA sequencing is modified extensively.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508764]Still haven't found me the quote where it states their DNA sequencing is modified extensively.[/QUOTE]
[quote] a [B]harsh[/B] regime of genetic modification[/quote]
If it wasn't etensive, it wouldnt be described as part of something harsh.
[quote] his genetic heritage is now that of the Emperor Himself[/quote]
Protip: Emperor isn't human.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508764]Still haven't found me the quote where it states their DNA sequencing is modified extensively.[/QUOTE]
oh sorry, i'll go look for the intensely specific quote about genetic structures
rather than you know
all the shit saying "They're barely human" "underwent intense transitions leaving them barely human" and etc
sorry bud, you can move the goal posts all you want, but you're wrong on this one.
also being descended from a god emperor who isn't human you know, totally makes them human
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;40508738]No but likely enough to make them biologically incompatible, given the extensiveness of the changes.
Besides, as I said, even if you were right, it doesnt matter because (ecept for certain chaos marines) they have no libedo whatsoever.
Also, you do realise just how conflicting GW's canon is, don't you.
Only during the neophyte time when their bodies and the organs after that are pretty much in the clear, and they dont need regular drug doses,at least not for geneseed maintainence, they may get drugs or stimulants injected into them during combat but thats it. they may go for regular checkups, but thats more to do with keeping an eye on the development of the geneseed than anything else (it takes 5 years minimum for the throat progenoid gland to fully mature into a geneseed)[/QUOTE]
I'm not arguing for games to focus on Space Marine romance. I just think that Games Workshop hasn't made any definite confirming evidence that Space Marines are extensively genetically different from humans.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508794]I'm not arguing for games to focus on Space Marine romance. I just think that Games Workshop hasn't made any definite confirming evidence that Space Marines are extensively genetically different from humans.[/QUOTE]
Now you're being willfully ignorant and one of those annoying people who need it spelt out for you, rather than working it out.
There's no definate evidence from GW that Orks don't like Romance Novels, but anyone with a reasonable head on them would be able to work out, given existing lore, that they don't.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40508784]oh sorry, i'll go look for the intensely specific quote about genetic structures
rather than you know
all the shit saying "They're barely human" "underwent intense transitions leaving them barely human" and etc
sorry bud, you can move the goal posts all you want, but you're wrong on this one.
also being descended from a god emperor who isn't human you know, totally makes them human[/QUOTE]
Games Workshop use hyperboles all the time. They weren't descended from him in the traditional sense. Primarchs aren't entirely human, they were made from scratch by the emperor. Space Marines were people that were implanted with genetically modified and grown organs, based off the DNA from the primarchs
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508863]Games Workshop use hyperboles all the time. They weren't descended from him in the traditional sense. Primarchs aren't entirely human, they were made from scratch by the emperor. Space Marines were people that were implanted with genetically modified and grown organs, based off the DNA from the primarchs[/QUOTE]
The primarchs were made [I]from the emperors own dna[/I]. Plus fairly certain the Emperor isn't human.
But yes, you're totally right, an 8 foot tall being with a solid ribcage, two hearts, three lungs, the ability to spit acid, to learn memories from eating flesh, to change skin colour instantly, to being able to clot blood instantly, amongst many, many other things, musn't be all that genetically different from humans at all!
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;40508840]Now you're being willfully ignorant and one of those annoying people who need it spelt out for you, rather than working it out.
There's no definate evidence from GW that Orks don't like Romance Novels, but anyone with a reasonable head on them would be able to work out, given existing lore, that they don't.[/QUOTE]
I apologize if I came off as an annoying and ignorant person, I meant no offense.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508863]Games Workshop use hyperboles all the time. They weren't descended from him in the traditional sense. Primarchs aren't entirely human, they were made from scratch by the emperor. Space Marines were people that were implanted with genetically modified and grown organs, based off the DNA from the primarchs[/QUOTE]
so someone is using genetic mass and material that is NOT human because they're not descended or created in human terms
and they're not rejecting these organs or dying all the time(we've already established they are not undergoing constant chemical therapy mind you) and you're telling me they're human, in a significant sense?
dude, for saying a lot of things about how they are and aren't, you haven't done much if any research here
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508897]I apologize if I came off as an annoying and ignorant person, I meant no offense.[/QUOTE]
then take a hint and realize you can be wrong about things and it's not wrong to admit you're wrong.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;40508893]The primarchs were made [I]from the emperors own dna[/I]. Plus fairly certain the Emperor isn't human.
But yes, you're totally right, an 8 foot tall being with a solid ribcage, two hearts, three lungs, the ability to spit acid, to learn memories from eating flesh, to change skin colour instantly, to being able to clot blood instantly, amongst many, many other things, musn't be all that genetically different from humans at all![/QUOTE]
That's what I said. Made from scratch by the emperor. Sorry I should've specified his own DNA point. Space Marines aren't bog standard humans but they were made that way via extensive chemical and hormonal therapy, implantation of organs that don't exist and with technology that also doesn't exist.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508929]That's what I said. Made from scratch by the emperor. Sorry I should've specified his own DNA point. Space Marines aren't bog standard humans but they were made that way via extensive chemical and hormonal therapy, implantation of organs that don't exist and with technology that also doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]
And if they don't exist/aren't natural to the human body, but are implanted and worked, then that must mean that their human dna was rewritten/altered for their bodies to use it. An example of "minor" genetic modification would be if their eyes turned from whatever colour they were, into blue, but to have 19 seperate organs, implanted and fully functional, pretty sure that is a hefty amount of alteration.
[QUOTE=kimchimafia;40508929]That's what I said. Made from scratch by the emperor. Sorry I should've specified his own DNA point. Space Marines aren't bog standard humans but they were made that way via extensive chemical and hormonal therapy, implantation of organs that don't exist and with technology that also doesn't exist.[/QUOTE]
you're asserting a point, please put forward evidence of this
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;40508961]And if they don't exist/aren't natural to the human body, but are implanted and worked, then that must mean that their human dna was rewritten/altered for their bodies to use it. An example of "minor" genetic modification would be if their eyes turned from whatever colour they were, into blue, but to have 19 seperate organs, implanted and fully functional, pretty sure that is a hefty amount of alteration.[/QUOTE]
I agree that their bodies are modified and altered to accept these organs but the tech they have seems to compensate or artificially alter the body's equilibrium to support those organs via replaced hormones. I'm sorry I'm dragging this out. Yeah it's most likely I'm wrong now so
I'll stop.
[editline]2nd May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40508972]you're asserting a point, please put forward evidence of this[/QUOTE]
Well I don't see how since it's been established that these organs don't exist, the tech to do it doesn't exist and chemical treatment has been confirmed to help initiates accept these organs. The hormone thing is stuff like Biscopea and Ossmodular which secretes hormones to initiate extensive muscle and bone growth.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;40504802]Uhm
I take it you have no idea about space marines
They can barely be considered to have genetalia at all[/QUOTE]
I happen to run a chapter of blonde, gold-encrusted prettyboy space vampires ripped straight out of a Michelangelo painting.
The Blood Angels are pretty gay, and you can't really say the shiny blue Romanesque veiny manchild poster children of the emperor are any better.
Not to mention that virtually every chapter has a special doctor that loves nothing more than to handle his battle brothers'...[I]progenoid gland[/I] while moaning about how much he loves the Emperor.
Or how about the Harncorx Capsule, the [I]hardened[/I] sub organ within the progenoid gland that nurtures the...Zygote spore? In case you missed out on basic biology, a zygote is result of gamete combination (50% jizz, gentlemen!) Space Marines are all about tying down puny humans and inserting their organs into them to make [i]men[/i] out of them. How is this not blatantly homoerotic?
Whooo...thinking about this makes me feel like shooting my Gene-seed...
You pulled the term Harncorx capsule right out of your ass. Same as most of your other "facts". While the term Zygote is used, considering the progenoids are fictional organs, I doubt a term has been created to describe their reproduction, so they alter existing ones.
Also an Apothecary hardly "handles" progenoid glands, they only time they are interacted with by an apothecary are removal when the thorat one matures, and removal from the chest upon the bearers death.
By the sound sof it, you're heavily implanting your own fantasies onto Space Marines.
yeah im a little confused about how some of you guys are getting all of these homoerotic messages from space marines.
[QUOTE=Aman VII;40496226]Oh god gay space marines please don't do it[/QUOTE]
As long as the Squad isn't broken I think we'll be fine for the time being. ;-;
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;40509227]You pulled the term Harncorx capsule right out of your ass. Same as most of your other "facts"[/QUOTE]
Right, sorry. Let me correct my fabrications.
Space Marines don't have apothecaries, who recover the progenoid gland from other Space Marines. My bad.
Space Marines are not made by inserting (fictional) foreign organs into genetically modified (but originally human) specimens who are restrained during the process.
A zygote is also not the earliest stage of an embryo.
The Ultramarines with their laurels and pseudo-Latin are absolutely [I]not[/I] inspired by the Romans.
The Blood Angels aren't visually styled after renaissance art styles and vampires.
Also, might I suggest you [URL="http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Progenoid_Glands"]read this[/URL]? There's a nice little graphic there that details the progenoid gland, which includes the Harncorx Capsule.
And about 'facts'...this is an argument about the relative gayness of fictional group of 8-foot tall spacemen who fly around fighting aliens and magical monsters from [I]the space between spaces[/I]. My facts are as good as yours, don't get so butthurt about it. You're obviously having a hard time handling me emphasizing the already homoerotic spin that surrounds your favorite spacemonks. Chill out, it's just a tabletop game surrounded by a bunch of mediocre books.
Honestly, I do not even know where sex came in with Space Marines. If you are looking at putting sex into W40K (Please don't, unless it is Slaanesh) you need to either look at Chaos, namely Slaanesh, or the Imperial Guard. With the Guard, you'd know where I was coming from if you read the Gaunts Ghosts novel series. Of course they are a single regiment, I'm not saying all Guard regiments get it on. The First and Only don't really either, but I think it is a decent enough example.
[QUOTE=Daemonshadow;40509360] Chill out, it's just a tabletop game surrounded by a bunch of mediocre books.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to argue that the books are actually rather nice. Some are pretty bad, but I can say if you enjoy the lore, you probably enjoy the books if you are into reading.
[QUOTE=Daemonshadow;40509360]Right, sorry. Let me correct my fabrications.
Space Marines don't have apothecaries, who recover the progenoid gland from other Space Marines. My bad.
Space Marines are not made by inserting (fictional) foreign organs into genetically modified (but originally human) specimens who are restrained during the process.
A zygote is also not the earliest stage of an embryo.
The Ultramarines with their laurels and pseudo-Latin are absolutely [I]not[/I] inspired by the Romans.
The Blood Angels aren't visually styled after renaissance art styles and vampires.
Also, might I suggest you [URL="http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Progenoid_Glands"]read this[/URL]? There's a nice little graphic there that details the progenoid gland, which includes the Harncorx Capsule.
And about 'facts'...this is an argument about the relative gayness of fictional group of 8-foot tall spacemen who fly around fighting aliens and magical monsters from [I]the space between spaces[/I]. My facts are as good as yours, don't get so butthurt about it. You're obviously having a hard time handling me emphasizing the already homoerotic spin that surrounds your favorite spacemonks. Chill out, it's just a tabletop game surrounded by a bunch of mediocre books.[/QUOTE]
You just straw maned the fuck out of that post and you're going to look down on anyone after it?
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