Poll: Most California Democrats want to restrict free speech from white nationalists

[Crumpets]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52683771]The article makes no distinction. I only jumped the gun by misreading American's post.

What's the major difference between yelling "what do we want? dead cops" and something that's sympathetic to Nazism?[/QUOTE]

find me official literature that shows BLM activists must be committed to wanting dead cops or whatever it is that makes you think they're similar and maybe I'll take your comparison seriously.

[quote]For one, BLM isn't an ideology with some central tenets, and it isn't some kind of centralised organisation. That's just a huge whataboutism crammed onto a bent horseshoe.[/quote]

[evlbzltyr]

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52681099]Anyone suggesting that rights be restricted simply because they disagree with someones' political ideology, no matter how horrendous it may be, are simply becoming the monsters they hate.[/QUOTE]

for the last fucking time, "we should kill / deport anyone with a different skin colour" and "you shouldn't have a platform to say that shit" is NOT EQUATABLE

[WhiteGirl88]

[QUOTE=Crumpet;52683820]find me official literature that shows BLM activists must be committed to wanting dead cops or whatever it is that makes you think they're similar and maybe I'll take your comparison seriously.[/QUOTE]

That's not what I'm getting at though. At protests, BLM activists yelled for dead cops. Neo-Nazis yelled phrases associated with Nazi Germany, which is associated with violence. These are both threats of violence for a political mean. Fundamentally, there is no major difference between their message. They want someone dead to further their goals. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you shouldn't take my point seriously.

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52683864]for the last fucking time, "we should kill / deport anyone with a different skin colour" and "you shouldn't have a platform to say that shit" is NOT EQUATABLE[/QUOTE]

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Nazi_Germany[/url]

Censorship is a fundamental sign of fascism. Nice strawman though. No one wants to deport people of different skin color on that fact alone.

The problem isn't that they feel whites are superior, it's that their message comes with threats. If they did not chant threats, they would not be in the wrong because this is America. In America, our freedom of speech is guaranteed by the constitution. As long as people don't advocate violence, they can, should, and will be given a platform. I'm aware that in England, things are different, but freedom of speech is ingrained in the American spirit.

[Creeplytuna]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52685406]That's not what I'm getting at though. At protests, BLM activists yelled for dead cops. Neo-Nazis yelled phrases associated with Nazi Germany, which is associated with violence. These are both threats of violence for a political mean. Fundamentally, there is no major difference between their message. They want someone dead to further their goals. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you shouldn't take my point seriously.

Censorship is a fundamental sign of fascism. Nice strawman though. No one wants to deport people of different skin color on that fact alone.

The problem isn't that they feel whites are superior, it's that their message comes with threats. If they did not chant threats, they would not be in the wrong because this is America. In America, our freedom of speech is guaranteed by the constitution. As long as people don't advocate violence, they can, should, and will be given a platform. I'm aware that in England, things are different, but freedom of speech is ingrained in the American spirit.[/QUOTE]

I really hope that 88 in your name is a coincidence.

The neo-nazi apologists/supporters on this forum have heard this a million times in these threads but no one seems to read them so here it is again: Supporting Nazism in and of itself is [I]inherently [/I] advocating for violence and genocide. These people are [I]choosing [/I] to support a regime whose singular goal was to kill or enslave anyone they deem genetically inferior or on the other side of the political spectrum. Neo-Nazi's are aware of what Nazi's have done and say "I want to do that again." It's completely and utterly opposed to civil society and the american way. You're the one making a strawman out of BLM which is an unorganized group of people who use twitter a lot and have not and will never decimate half the western world in an attempt at world domination.

[WhiteGirl88]

[QUOTE=CreeplyTuna;52685485]Supporting Nazism in and of itself is [I]inherently [/I] advocating for violence and genocide.[/QUOTE]

Obviously.

[QUOTE=CreeplyTuna;52685485]You're the one making a strawman out of BLM which is an unorganized group of people who use twitter a lot and have not and will never decimate half the western world in an attempt at world domination.[/QUOTE]

[video=youtube;hqQXmnMr_w8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqQXmnMr_w8[/video]

Negative. Violent chants are wrong on either side. While they are two very different groups, both protested publicly and yelled violent things. I'm not talking about the organization, but rather the fact that they both did similar things at one point. At some point, they diverge from being similar, but they are both groups of people of one race chanting for death of other people. If your message is violent, it's no longer protected under free speech.

So my point is just that not liking black people doesn't make you a terrorist. Sharing your opinion doesn't make you a terrorist, and you shouldn't be stopped from doing so. Will you get your ass beat? Probably, but that's how it goes. When you start to wish for the death of anyone, black, white, Hebrew, then it becomes a legal problem. I am trying to, through my posts, explain that white nationalism isn't the problem. It's that political violence of any kind should be persecuted the same. There shouldn't be a distinction between neo-nazis or any other extremist racial groups, if they both pursue violence then they are, within the eyes of the law, wrong.

As you unintentionally made clear, people love to simplify the dichotomy of what makes a Nazi. I make points towards white nationalism and you already marked me as a "neo-nazi apologist/supporter". People mistakenly take a complex issue and apply an incorrect label to it. Read the article again.

[QUOTE]restrict free speech from white nationalists[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]whether white nationalist groups should be allowed to demonstrate.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]gone too far in allowing white nationalists to demonstrate[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]He says hate speech in particular leads to greater evils and should not be protected.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]not sitting there and rallying about things that happened 100 years ago,” like slavery or white supremacy[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]most believe white nationalists’ right to demonstrate shouldn’t be restricted is non-Hispanic whites[/QUOTE]

The article isn't talking about neo-nazis, but rather, white nationalists. They even quote someone who spoke about "hate speech", which I assume by his standards is anything anti-other races.

Hate speech is protected. Violent speech is not. You can't demonize white supremacists unless they start preaching violence. Push for banning protests of people who make threats, not just white nationalists.

[Hail Satan]

I don't think killing cops is a core part of Black Lives Matters. I think you're taking that video and using a broad brush to paint over a very complicated movement. You can't complain a lack of nuance when we're talking about nazis and white supremacism right after say BLM wanna kill cops.

[FuckOffEuroTrash]

Making the BLM comparison is pointless. While the modern Nazi/white supremecy movement is disorganized, fractured, and small, that doesn't make it comparable to BLM just because they've both said some violent things and aren't exactly structured.

Its a dumb comparison to make, just because one group of protesters shouted that they want cops dead doesn't mean the whole organization does. This isn't a Clean Wehrmacht debate where we're discussing whether or not every person in WWII era Germany was evil. We're talking about modern groups that protest under the Nazi flag. These men and women know exactly what Germany was responsible for during the war and they want to live under that flag so they can repeat the past. Its very cut and dry as to what these people's intentions and wants are.

Does that mean they should be tossed in prison for domestic terrorism? Probably not, but they shouldn't be censored for being complete fuck tards either. When they get violent or start preaching violence, then act.

[zukriuchen]

[QUOTE=CreeplyTuna;52685485]I really hope that 88 in your name is a coincidence.[/QUOTE]

nope

their steamid used to be "1488summerofhate", which they apparently changed last time they got called out on it, though you can still find it via google

[Stev]

[QUOTE=TraderRager;52680079]it depends on your definition of "restricted". If were talking about armed nutjobs wearing MOLLE vest with confederate patches walking the street, they should face restrictions. Free speech stops when your speech impedes on the safety and rights of others.[/QUOTE]

No it stops at threats of or incitement to or statement of intent for violence, and not an inch before.

Because anything more opens up arbitration as to what constitutes "safety". All the people claiming that speech is political violence being a particularly obvious example. And no concentrated power should ever have the responsibility to dictate what is and isn't harmful, outside of expressing intent to break established laws, which are predicated on observable consequence, and not subjective experiences of "feeling safe".

And i know that's not the claim you're making, but you drew the line in the wrong place, which leads to the claims i object to.

[WhiteGirl88]

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52685934]I don't think killing cops is a core part of Black Lives Matters. I think you're taking that video and using a broad brush to paint over a very complicated movement.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52686031]Making the BLM comparison is pointless. While the modern Nazi/white supremecy movement is disorganized, fractured, and small, that doesn't make it comparable to BLM just because they've both said some violent things and aren't exactly structured.[/QUOTE]

You misunderstood my point. It doesn't matter if its BLM, neo-nazis, or Antifa, there are groups of people who preach violence and act on it. Regardless of how organized these groups are, anyone who uses a movement to preach violent should be shut down. Can we all agree on that?

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52685934]talking about nazis and white supremacism[/QUOTE]

Not the same thing. It's extremely important to make that distinction.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52686293]their steamid used to be "1488summerofhate", which they apparently changed last time they got called out on it, though you can still find it via google[/QUOTE]

Chaos 88 has a song called "Summer of Hate", and my steamid url was based on the song because I thought it was catchy. I changed it not because I got 'called out', but because I just wanted to change it. Can we stick to the issue and not try to dox me? Thanks.

[zukriuchen]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52686488]Chaos 88 has a song called "Summer of Hate", and my steamid url was based on the song because I thought it was catchy. I changed it not because I got 'called out', but because I just wanted to change it. Can we stick to the issue and not try to dox me? Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Obvious trolling tbh

Either that, or a fittingly moronic excuse for someone who's both a Nazi and this shit at hiding it. I say there's no sense in trying to have a proper discussion with this dude

[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply then?" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

[Camdude90]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52686488]

Chaos 88 has a song called "Summer of Hate", and my steamid url was based on the song because I thought it was catchy. I changed it not because I got 'called out', but because I just wanted to change it. Can we stick to the issue and not try to dox me? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

hmm, i've never heard of this "chaos 88" band, lemme google them and see what they're about.

[quote] Chaos 88 is a white nationalist punk rock band.[/quote]

literally the first thing i see about them, on a beautiful website called [url]http://en.rightpedia.info[/url]

go and read the front page there, some really pretty stuff

are you even trying dude?

[inaba]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52686488]Chaos 88 has a song called "Summer of Hate", and my steamid url was based on the song because I thought it was catchy. I changed it not because I got 'called out', but because I just wanted to change it. Can we stick to the issue and not try to dox me? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

It isn't doxing though. It's like announcing to the world that you never lock your doors, and then wonder where your stuff has gone. It's more like gaining perspective

[Hail Satan]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52686488]
Not the same thing. It's extremely important to make that distinction.
[/QUOTE]

Never said the were the same, but I would argue they're very similar. The latter can lead to the former.

[editline]16th September 2017[/editline]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52686488]You misunderstood my point. It doesn't matter if its BLM, neo-nazis, or Antifa, there are groups of people who preach violence and act on it. Regardless of how organized these groups are, anyone who uses a movement to preach violent should be shut down. Can we all agree on that? [/QUOTE]

One of em preaches genocide though

[purvisdavid1]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52686488]Chaos 88 has a song called "Summer of Hate", and my steamid url was based on the song because I thought it was catchy.[/QUOTE]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/WjENIxz.jpg[/img]

... :speechless:

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52686488]I changed it not because I got 'called out', but because I just wanted to change it.[/QUOTE]

Sure. Tell us this, but we're not this stupid. "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children", the 14 word phrase coined by the founder of the American Nazi Party George Lincoln Rockwell. H is the 8th letter in the alphabet, so 88 is HH, and HH is Heil Hitler.

You're not convincing me.

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52686488]Can we stick to the issue and not try to dox me? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Do you understand what doxxing is? It's where we get information that is not publicly accessible and disseminate it. What we did was simply call you a racist for having the most blatantly obvious hate encryption number as a fucking steam username that you linked your account here to.

It's like walking around with a swastika armband going "Why is everyone looking at me weird?"

[elix]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52683552]The constitution only applies to U.S. citizens, and freedom of speech isn't comparable to violence.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, where does this say "Citizens only"?
[QUOTE]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52683552]That's how fascism starts.[/QUOTE]
It's pretty hilarious seeing someone named WhiteGirl[B]88[/B] (HH! :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:) say that censoring literal Nazis from being able to promote their political views will cause fascism.

So basically you let the fascists speak and promote fascism or you trample their free speech rights in the name of protecting minorities directly threatened by their ideology and promote fascism.

That sounds like terrorism, to me.

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52683739]There is nothing legally wrong with being a white nationalist. There is nothing wrong with being an Arab nationalist if there is such a thing, but when you verge onto extremist like the Ku Klux Klan and ISIS, you get into dangerous territory.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, WhiteGirl[B]88[/B] :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp: :fp:

[QUOTE=CreeplyTuna;52685485]I really hope that 88 in your name is a coincidence.[/QUOTE]
User's profile gives a birthdate that is [I]not[/I] 1988, so you be the judge.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52686293]nope

their steamid used to be "1488summerofhate", which they apparently changed last time they got called out on it, though you can still find it via google[/QUOTE]
:fp: :bullshit: :fp:

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52686488]Chaos 88 has a song called "Summer of Hate", and my steamid url was based on the song because I thought it was catchy. I changed it not because I got 'called out', but because I just wanted to change it. Can we stick to the issue and not try to dox me? Thanks.[/QUOTE]
And "Rightpedia", a right-wing wikipedia clone, describes the band with the simple sentence, "Chaos 88 is a white nationalist punk rock band." Rightpedia has a (dead) link to Chaos 88 merch on what was the National Socialist Movement (NSM88) website, which Rightpedia describes as "the largest Rockwellian National Socialist political party operating in the United States." And you mean to tell us your username has nothing to do with National Socialism?

I'm gonna guess that 88 isn't a coincidence there, either, and "Summer of Hate" isn't about a bad girlfriend breakup. Oh, wait, I found the lyrics:
[QUOTE][B]The year was 1988, the summer was filled with hate.
The bullets were flying and bottles were breaking all through the air.
Wheels were screeching, women were screaming, help was nowhere.
The papers tried to stop them but no one ever cared.[/B]

‘88 it was the summer of hate.
‘88 it’s never too late.

[B]Now it’s ten years later and things haven’t changed.
Niggers are being dragged from the backs of the cars.
Two dead baldies lying in the desert.
Dirty little babies left dead in the dumpster.[/B]

‘88 it was the summer of hate.
‘88 it’s never too late.
‘88 it was the summer of hate.
‘88 it’s never too late.

[B]Driving around with the boys tonight.
We’ve all been drinking and we’re ready for a fight.
We see some fucking faggots at an after hours bar.
Pull out a crowbar and leave a fucking scar.[/B]

‘88 it was the summer of hate.
‘88 it’s never too late.

[B]Walking around in the city lights.
The air is filled with tension and the time is right.
We see a fucking nigger smoking his drugs.
We pull out a gun, gonna end his fun.[/B]

‘88 it was the summer of hate.
‘88 it’s never too late.
‘88 it was the summer of hate.
‘88 it’s never too late.[/QUOTE]
A song about beating homosexuals and murdering black people, so catchy!! Why do you expect us to believe your '88' is an innocent reference when the very source you attributed is a white nationalist band and their song about promoting violence against blacks and homosexuals???

I've seen less transparent glasses of water. If you're going to be a cryptofascist at least make the puzzle more challenging.

[MrBob1337]

don't be violent!!! :(((( i just want to shoot blocks and beat gays why can't you just leave me alone

[HumanAbyss]

I mean, not to defend what Whitegirls saying in anyway

Even Noam Chomsky doesn't believe silencing nazi's is actually going to fix the problem

[paramud]

[editline]oh mhabumrgers[/editline]

ffs, didn't notice the next page.

[Curls]

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52687439]I mean, not to defend what Whitegirls saying in anyway

Even Noam Chomsky doesn't believe silencing nazi's is actually going to fix the problem[/QUOTE]

it might, it might not. Tbh personally I have no idea, but we sure as fuck need to suppress the uprise

ironically by trying to suppress it we could cause it to become even more serious

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52686512]Obvious trolling tbh

Either that, or a fittingly moronic excuse for someone who's both a Nazi and this shit at hiding it. I say there's no sense in trying to have a proper discussion with this dude
[/QUOTE]

tbh it just seems like a bait account so I'd really pay no attention

[WhiteGirl88]

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;52686945]H is the 8th letter in the alphabet, so 88 is HH, and HH is Heil Hitler.[/QUOTE]

Actually David Lane wrote the 88 precepts in prison. It talks about politics and religion. Look it up if you're interested.

Let's go back to the original point I was making.

I feel that neo nazi-ism isn't as big a deal as people are making it. Alt-righters are hopefully just a passing fad. I think we should take a hard stance on people who preach violence, but not silence ideas that can be seen as hateful. The line isn't as thin as people make it out to be.

[inaba]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52687784]Actually David Lane wrote the 88 precepts in prison. It talks about politics and religion. Look it up if you're interested.[/QUOTE]

I looked it up, and

[QUOTE]88 Precepts is an essay or manifesto written by David Lane, a member of the white supremacist organization The Order.[/QUOTE]

:thinking:

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52687784] I feel that neo nazi-ism isn't as big a deal as people are making it. Alt-righters are hopefully just a passing fad. I think we should take a hard stance on people who preach violence, but not silence ideas that can be seen as hateful. The line isn't as thin as people make it out to be. [/QUOTE]

But the neo-nazis are preaching violence, it's pretty much in their core beliefs

[Curls]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52687784]Actually David Lane wrote the 88 precepts in prison. It talks about politics and religion. Look it up if you're interested.

Let's go back to the original point I was making.

I feel that neo nazi-ism isn't as big a deal as people are making it. Alt-righters are hopefully just a passing fad. I think we should take a hard stance on people who preach violence, but not silence ideas that can be seen as hateful. The line isn't as thin as people make it out to be.[/QUOTE]

"I'm a white nationalist. I'm not even going to hide it"

what a great thing to edit out tbh

Good thing mods can see post edits too

[WhiteGirl88]

[QUOTE=gokiyono;52687819]But the neo-nazis are preaching violence, it's pretty much in their core beliefs[/QUOTE]

I think they're just metrosexuals who probably browse 4chan and unironically say "Nazis are aesthetic" or something like that. I don't really think they're domestic terrorists. I personally think it's a really silly thing and I just can't take them seriously.

[inaba]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52687834]I think they're just metrosexuals who probably browse 4chan and unironically say "Nazis are aesthetic" or something like that. I don't really think they're domestic terrorists. I personally think it's a really silly thing and I just can't take them seriously.[/QUOTE]

So try to imagine [URL="http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-was-only-pretending-to-be-retarded"]this[/URL], but instead of the word retarded it says: Nazi. Then there's also this quote [QUOTE]Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company.[/QUOTE]

And now hopefully you'll see how that is stupid. If you associate yourself with nazis, I'm gonna think of you as a nazi

[WhiteGirl88]

[QUOTE=gokiyono;52687853]And now hopefully you'll see how that is stupid. If you associate yourself with nazis, I'm gonna think of you as a nazi[/QUOTE]

Being racist doesn't make you a nazi. Saying racist things doesn't make you a nazi. Nazis saying they want to do genocide and murders should be arrested.

[elix]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52687874]Being racist doesn't make you a nazi. Saying racist things doesn't make you a nazi. Nazis saying they want to do genocide and murders should be arrested.[/QUOTE]
"Hi guys, I'm not a Nazi, my username and Steam account is just heavily decorated with references to modern Nazism including killing niggers lol."

Let's see what Wikipedia says about his manifesto:
[QUOTE][B]88 Precepts is a treatise on natural law, religion and politics[/B] from the view point of David Lane [B]including guidelines for securing, protecting, preserving and establishing white territorial imperatives in North America and Eastern Europe, distributing propaganda, calls for a night-watchman state[1][/B] and are [B]an expansion upon Lane's Fourteen Words.[/B] The 88 Precepts are commonly regarded as [B]"tenets of white-separatist life"[/B] used by white supremacy groups and those who advocate white nationalism and separatism such as the Alt Right.[/QUOTE]
Calling it [I]just[/I] about religion and politics is either wilfully disingenuous or you're blinded by the propaganda and don't even understand the toxicity of your ideology.

Lane also wrote both quotations infamously named the Fourteen Words, which are "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children." [I]or[/I] "Because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth." :thinking:

Let's also ignore the fact that Lane was in prison because he was the getaway driver for three members of his order who [I]murdered a Jew on his own property[/I].

Are you done defending not being a Nazi by bringing up constant references to Nazis?

[inaba]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52687874]Being racist doesn't make you a nazi. Saying racist things doesn't make you a nazi. Nazis saying they want to do genocide and murders should be arrested.[/QUOTE]

I never said anything of the kind though. I said that if you're pretending to be a nazi, you'll be treated like one

[paramud]

[QUOTE=WhiteGirl88;52687784]Actually David Lane wrote the 88 precepts in prison. It talks about politics and religion. Look it up if you're interested.[/QUOTE]

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lane_(white_supremacist)[/url]
[quote]Lane authored the 88 Precepts, a collection of statements on natural law, which combine in white supremacist shorthand with the 14 words to "14-88" or "14/88". In white nationalism, 88 is also a reference to "Heil Hitler".[/quote]

You're making a great case for yourself.

[editline] oh hamburgers[/editline]

Fucking hell Elix

[inaba]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52687892]Oh damn[/QUOTE]

This is like the adventures of Leo5gg over again