Columbia Student Will Carry a Mattress Everywhere Until Her Alleged Rapist Is Expelled - Polidicks

[url]http://columbiaspectator.com/news/2014/05/16/frustrated-columbias-inaction-student-reports-sexual-assault-police[/url] [QUOTE]Sulkowicz reported to police that [B]she told Nungesser to stop, but that he did not[/B]. She “struggled with [Nungesser] and tried to push his arms away,” according to the police report, but “[Nungesser] kept going and [B]suddenly stopped without ejaculating.[/B]”[/QUOTE] Something smells fishy... So she told him to stop, he didn't, but then he stopped suddenly?

[QUOTE=AlexConnor;45880034]It is precisely because rape is such as serious crime that we must treat allegations of rape with equal seriousness. If someone is accused of rape and suspended, they will be regarded as guilty even if the charges are dismissed, only direct proof that the accusation is false will be enough to clear them in the minds of the general public and the people surrounding them. And that is very rare, so the majority of people accused of rape will be considered as guilty, regardless of guilt or innocence, evidence or the lack thereof, conviction or dismissal of charges By all means these allegations should be investigated (and by the police rather than the college), but suspension on mere hearsay would be unjust and is unnecessary, the chances of even a guilty rapist committing another rape while they know they are under investigation by the police for alleged rape would be very low.[/QUOTE] The guy had [b]three[/b] separate allegations made. If they're not obviously false, his studies should have been suspended pending further investigation to avoid: 1) Repeat offences 2) Victims feeling at risk during their studies

[QUOTE=Flapadar;45880258]The guy had [b]three[/b] separate allegations made. If they're not obviously false, his studies should have been suspended pending further investigation to avoid: 1) Repeat offences 2) Victims feeling at risk during their studies[/QUOTE] Ah the old treat it like a witch hunt. Why not just tie rocks to him and toss him in a pond. If he floats he is a rapist.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;45880258]The guy had [b]three[/b] separate allegations made. If they're not obviously false, his studies should have been suspended pending further investigation to avoid: 1) Repeat offences 2) Victims feeling at risk during their studies[/QUOTE] Maybe three people is trying to get him in jail? You never know, cant just treat it as true because enough people says its true. It's like when people thought the universe revolved around the earth. It wasnt true and eventually proven to be untrue. So just because enough people say something is in a certain way doesnt mean it have to, only evidence and investigation can.

Did either of you two read the part where I said "Suspended pending further investigation"? I didn't say throw him in jail, I said ensure he isn't a risk to the victims while the investigation is carried out. Shit, this even happens in cases of [url=http://www.hr.gov.nt.ca/human-resource-manual/0700-discipline/0703-suspension-pending-investigation]workplace misconduct[/url], it's not exactly a novel concept.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;45880669]Did either of you two read the part where I said "Suspended pending further investigation"? I didn't say throw him in jail, I said ensure he isn't a risk to the victims while the investigation is carried out.[/QUOTE] Yes you said punish a possibly innocent man. I agree but why stop there. You obviously don't care abot guilty until proven innocent. You also show complete ignorence on what that whould do to him mentaly, or what it would do to his future. Maybe you think its a great way to take a stand against sexism, by being sexist. Maybe you think he is a man and by that standard he must be guilty. Or just maybe you have no idwa what you going on abour. Any way you cut it your attitude is disgusting and reminiscent of witch hunts.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;45880258]The guy had [b]three[/b] separate allegations made. If they're not obviously false, his studies should have been suspended pending further investigation to avoid: 1) Repeat offences 2) Victims feeling at risk during their studies[/QUOTE] 3 separate instances of hearsay are not significantly better than one. 1) & 2) see "the chances of even a guilty rapist committing another rape while they know they are under investigation by the police for alleged rape would be very low." If someone was so determined to commit rape that active police investigation did not deter them, mere suspension is not going to be enough. From the details given by the alleged victim, it appears the entirety of the investigation could have been carried out by taking a statement from each party. Moreover, since someone cannot be convicted on the testimony of one person, there is insufficient evidence to prosecute, and with the investigation over there would be no reason to issue a suspension.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;45880669]Did either of you two read the part where I said "Suspended pending further investigation"? I didn't say throw him in jail, I said ensure he isn't a risk to the victims while the investigation is carried out. Shit, this even happens in cases of [url=http://www.hr.gov.nt.ca/human-resource-manual/0700-discipline/0703-suspension-pending-investigation]workplace misconduct[/url], it's not exactly a novel concept.[/QUOTE] yes, his education should be interrupted and make him fall behind the rest of his class because someone said something that may or may not be true. What if someone would come kick you out of school temporairly because someone said you raped someone regardless of the truth. It's a terrible thing to do. Keep in mind investigations could drag on for many many months, are they just gonna keep him suspended until the investigation ends and they have a verdict and then the school can decide wether to expel him or let him begin again according to what it said?

[QUOTE=Impact1986;45880218][url]http://columbiaspectator.com/news/2014/05/16/frustrated-columbias-inaction-student-reports-sexual-assault-police[/url] Something smells fishy... So she told him to stop, he didn't, but then he stopped suddenly?[/QUOTE] Breaking news: if you don't ejaculate, it isn't rape [QUOTE=AlexConnor;45880710]3 separate instances of hearsay are not significantly better than one.[/QUOTE] It's not 3 instances of hearsay, it's 3 direct accusations. Hearsay would be "I heard this guy raped someone". This isn't that. This is 3 separate instances of "This guy raped me".

[QUOTE=Last or First;45880811]It's not 3 instances of hearsay, it's 3 direct accusations. Hearsay would be "I heard this guy raped someone". This isn't that. This is 3 separate instances of "This guy raped me".[/QUOTE] Alright, not hearsay. Try unsupported statement. We appear to have 3 unsupported statements relating to 3 separate alleged incidents*. And as they relate to separate incidents, these statements cannot be used in support of each other, which means each investigation can be dismissed on the grounds that it is one persons word vs another persons word. *Assuming the other 2 alleged incidents have no more evidence than this one.

[QUOTE=AlexConnor;45880951]We appear to have 3 unsupported statements relating to 3 separate alleged incidents*. And as they relate to separate incidents, these statements cannot be used in support of each other[/QUOTE] [[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed]citation needed[/url]]

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;45880649]Maybe three people is trying to get him in jail? You never know, cant just treat it as true because enough people says its true. It's like when people thought the universe revolved around the earth. It wasnt true and eventually proven to be untrue. So just because enough people say something is in a certain way doesnt mean it have to, only evidence and investigation can.[/QUOTE] well thats what the fucking court system is for, to decide what is true and what isnt, who is guilty and not, etc.

[QUOTE=Gamerman12;45881085]well thats what the fucking court system is for, to decide what is true and what isnt, who is guilty and not, etc.[/QUOTE] We are not arguing about that, but the assumed guilt, and how with no trial soneone who could be innocent should be punished.

[QUOTE=Impact1986;45880218] Something smells fishy... So she told him to stop, he didn't, but then he stopped suddenly?[/QUOTE] Stop. Innocent until proven guilty is one thing, "i bet shes lying" is something else entirely. Lets say, From my point of view it is a thousand times more likely that the guy who has been accused of rape by three separate girls, actually did it, but am i going to start "rooting for a side"?, no, because we don't [b] know [/b] what happened.

Sigh, dear people: Yes, campuses have their own court system for handling things like rape and academic dishonesty. This does not, however, mean that it should ever be your first fucking stop when you finally decide to prosecute a rape case. Go to the fucking POLICE. Campuses often even have their own police department with sworn officers. Go to the real justice system and, if it goes well there, go to the campus court system. Campus court is going to be super hesitant to expell people for actual crimes unless they have also been convicted in regular court. They can be sued.

OT- I know recording outside with even the slightest breeze might cause all that woosh background noise, was the audio recorded without a shotgun mic? Is that the reason in this particular instance? It struck me that the video is from an independent professional news outlet and the audio is like that

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;45878710]He can be suspended, he can have his name cleared, he can be compensated for lost time, any number of reparations can be made and rectified Another victim however, can not un-rape herself. How the fuck is there are argument against this, somebody under extreme suspicion is a tangible danger to people on campus[/QUOTE] I'm ready to argue it's harder to get rid of being falsely accused of rape than to recover from having been raped. Starting with the fact the former depends entirely on other people whose thoughts and opinions are out of your control and the former greatly depends on your own mentality after the fact. For some reason the whole "innocent until proven guilty thing" does not apply to rape allegations for most people, which is utter bullshit.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;45881485]Stop. Innocent until proven guilty is one thing, "i bet shes lying" is something else entirely.[/QUOTE] Lying of course shouldn't be discounted as something that doesn't happen. You can prove that sex happened but consent is a completely different story.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45882397]Starting with the fact the former depends entirely on other people whose thoughts and opinions are out of your control[/QUOTE] The same thing happens with rape victims though? You weren't raped, you just regretted sex. You were asking for it wearing that dress. Shouldn't have gotten drunk etc. These are all real things rape victims hear [I]all the time.[/I]

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45882397]I'm ready to argue it's harder to get rid of being falsely accused of rape than to recover from having been raped. Starting with the fact the former depends entirely on other people whose thoughts and opinions are out of your control and the former greatly depends on your own mentality after the fact. For some reason the whole "innocent until proven guilty thing" does not apply to rape allegations for most people, which is utter bullshit.[/QUOTE] Do people who have been falsely accused of rape lose their sense of self worth? No. Do people who are falsely accused have flashbacks? No. Do people who are falsely accused spend every minute worrying about the next time something will remind them of what happened? No. Your view is disgusting.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;45882397]I'm ready to argue it's harder to get rid of being falsely accused of rape than to recover from having been raped. Starting with the fact the former depends entirely on other people whose thoughts and opinions are out of your control and the former greatly depends on your own mentality after the fact. For some reason the whole "innocent until proven guilty thing" does not apply to rape allegations for most people, which is utter bullshit.[/QUOTE] Tell me, what's a good place to move to or name to change to to escape the trauma of being raped?

[QUOTE=Antdawg;45879227]I like how, in a situation as serious as being about a woman claiming to have been raped, where the university has clearly improperly investigated the claim, where two other students reported that the same student had assaulted them, where twenty-three students in total from this university alone have filed a complaint about the poor handling of sexual-abuse cases from the university, that the claims are simply dismissed by FPers because 'maybe the girls know each other'. As if that women are a part of this big conspiracy network just to go out and ruin the lives of people. As if it is the men that are generally the victims of rape. That women cannot actually be raped. That the victims are guilty until proven innocent.[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ are you paying any attention? People want due process and want to remind people like you that die process is important. Get off your non existent moral high horse

[QUOTE=Flapadar;45882470] Your view is disgusting and trivialises all survivors of rape.[/QUOTE] You're trivializing people who have been accused. It really does negatively impact a persons life in a way that's hard to recover from. [QUOTE=Ganerumo;45882397]I'm ready to argue it's harder to get rid of being falsely accused of rape than to recover from having been raped.[/QUOTE] Thats dumb.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;45882541]You're trivializing people who have been accused. It really does negatively impact a persons life in a way that's hard to recover from.[/QUOTE] As Mingebox said - if you've been falsely accused you can move and change your name if any stigma doesn't disappear after being found innocent. Moving and changing your name does jack shit to help rape survivors. What happened to them is with them for life. One is worse than the other, by far.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;45882557]As Mingebox said - if you've been falsely accused you can move and change your name if any stigma doesn't disappear after being found innocent. Moving and changing your name does jack shit to help rape survivors. What happened to them is with them for life. One is worse than the other, by far.[/QUOTE] They're both bad one is worse yes but why should someone accused of rape, cleared of it, should have to flee? Why does that make sense? Why wouldn't you advocate that we stop being stupid judgemental pricks thinking we know better than courts ?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45882580]They're both bad one is worse yes but why should someone accused of rape, cleared of it, should have to flee? Why does that make sense?[/quote] I didn't say they have to - I said the option is there. Rape survivors don't get that option to escape what happened. [quote]Why wouldn't you advocate that we stop being stupid judgemental pricks thinking we know better than courts ?[/QUOTE] The police (and therefore, the courts) aren't taking the case in the OP seriously and neither is the university

So that doesn't mean skip due process like some people advocate

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;45882598]So that doesn't mean skip due process like some people advocate[/QUOTE] How do you suggest getting due process if nobody's taking the case seriously? I've always said the case needs investigated fully before anyone goes to jail - all throughout the thread. What needs to happen is the police need to start taking the case seriously and stop writing it off as a waste of time.

Who has explicitly advocated to skip due process here.

[QUOTE=Flapadar;45882603]How do you suggest getting due process if nobody's taking the case seriously? I've always said the case needs investigated fully before anyone goes to jail - all throughout the thread. What needs to happen is the police need to start taking the case seriously and stop writing it off as a waste of time.[/QUOTE] Except I didn't say that that doesn't need to happen.