[QUOTE=basoro;39498069][url]http://www.gazagateway.org/2011/11/control-of-civilian-infrastructure/[/url]
Israel controls the electrical, water, and communications infrastructure in gaza. Because of this, israel spends a huge amount of money maintaining it all, for a terrorist organization that has [b]repeatedly tried to start a war for israel and has a track record for harming it's civilians intentionally[/b].[/QUOTE]
"Repeatedly tries to start war with Israel"
[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/05/israelandthepalestinians[/url]
Try not to use a biased site with a clear agenda, as opposed to a news agency or a respectable human rights agency.
[QUOTE=Bliblixe;39498103]Not everyone in Gaza is ok with the Hamas' way of things.
But there's more joining them by the day, and it's all Israel's fault.[/QUOTE]
It's israel's fault that hamas seized power in gaza? Really? I'm sure Israel would've been praised if they'd started a ground war to get rid of hamas, right?
[QUOTE=basoro;39498094]Those people sure look like they're starving![/QUOTE]
Noone implies they are starving.
Furthermore, Israel and the blockade (which is illegal under international law), crippled the Gaza economy a long time ago.
[QUOTE=basoro;39498094]Those people sure look like they're starving![/QUOTE]
Yeah at least they'll have bread and basic nutrients in their stomach before they get mauled by an Israel shelling.
I really hope you're just trolling, cause if you're not, you're definitly one of the dumbest person I've seen on Facepunch in 2013 yet.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19975211[/url]
They're trying to keep them on a diet as some sort of punishment.
[quote][URL="http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/u-s-backs-israel-on-aid-for-humanitarian-groups-not-hamas-1.180287"]"It's like a meeting with a dietician. We have to make them much thinner, but not enough to die," said the prime minister's adviser Dov Weissglas.[/URL] [/quote]
Don't worry guys, its just not enough for them to die due to lack of hunger, they aren't starving at all.
[QUOTE=basoro;39498120]It's israel's fault that hamas seized power in gaza? Really? I'm sure Israel would've been praised if they'd started a ground war to get rid of hamas, right?[/QUOTE]
Don't expect people relocated to shit places in Gaza because their home was shelled or because they were moved by the Israelis to expand their territory to just sit there and be like "oh well, we'll try the diplomatic way".
Kill people, fuck their life up, and they'll just try to fuck up yours. Except they got a few aks and old mortars while you got tanks, artillery and jets.
[QUOTE=Ogopogo;39498127]Furthermore, Israel and the blockade (which is illegal under international law), crippled the Gaza economy a long time ago.[/QUOTE]
Let's not forget that Israel wasn't the only one to blockade access to gaza, and that the blockade isn't even effective. Hundreds of tunnels have been dug and in use for years now. If the situation was going to get better on it's own, it would've been done by now, regardless of a blockade or not.
[QUOTE=basoro;39498167]Let's not forget that Israel wasn't the only one to blockade access to gaza, and that the blockade isn't even effective. Hundreds of tunnels have been dug and in use for years now. If the situation was going to get better on it's own, it would've been done by now, regardless of a blockade or not.[/QUOTE]
Try to shove a truck thru a hand made tunnel. That's even harder than trying to shove sense thru your thick head.
Tunnels are only good for smuggling small items, like batteries and tools.
I'd like to see you smuggle a cement truck filled with concrete through a tunnel.
Edit: This thread is a disaster.
Don't forget that Egypt's authorities have recently cracked down on some of the tunnels.
[QUOTE=laserguided;39498226]Don't forget that Egypt's authorities have recently cracked down on some of the tunnels.[/QUOTE]
Egypt started their blockade in response to tunnels, and has since lifted it:
[quote]Following the Egyptian revolution of 2011, the new Egyptian leadership opened the Rafah crossing to the Gaza Strip on 28 May 2011, for women, children and men over 40.[13] Men aged between 18 and 40 require a permit and trade is prohibited.[13] Palestinians leaving Gaza are required to carry ID cards issued by Israel.[13] Israel criticised the opening citing security concerns.[13] However, little changed in reality, and there were still severe restrictions on movements to and from Gaza.
In 2012 Egypt started supplying fuel to the Gaza Strip, to help ease a lengthy fuel crisis arising from a dispute between Egypt and the Hamas government in Gaza over whether Gaza can trade with Egypt openly, or only via Israel.[103][/quote]
Israel eased their restrictions even earlier than Egypt:
[quote]
On 20 June 2010, Israel's Security Cabinet approved a new system governing the blockade that would allow practically all non-military or dual-use items to enter the Gaza strip. According to a cabinet statement, Israel would "expand the transfer of construction materials designated for projects that have been approved by the Palestinian Authority, including schools, health institutions, water, sanitation and more – as well as (projects) that are under international supervision."[92] Despite the easing of the land blockade, Israel will continue to inspect all goods bound for Gaza by sea at the port of Ashdod.[93]
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that the decision enabled Israel to focus on real security issues and would eliminate "Hamas' main propaganda claim,"[94] and that it would strengthen the case for keeping the sea blockade in place.[95] He also said the decision would have been coordinated with the United States and with Tony Blair, the representative of the Quartet for the Middle East.[94] Blair characterized the decision as a "very significant step forward", but added that the decision needs to be implemented.[92] In a statement, the Quartet said that the situation remained "unsustainable and unacceptable" and maintained that a long-term solution was urgently needed.[96][97] The UNRWA called for a complete lift of the Gaza blockade, expressing concern that the new policy would continue to limit Gaza's ability to develop on its own.[97] The European Union's representative for foreign policy, Catherine Ashton, welcomed the decision. She called the step "a significant improvement" and expressed the expectation that the measures take effect as soon as possible, adding that "more work remains to be done."[98] The U.S. government welcomed the decision, expressing the belief that the easing would significantly improve the lives of Gaza Strip residents and prevent weapons smuggling.[92] It expressed its intention to contribute to an international effort to "explore additional ways to improve the situation in Gaza, including greater freedom of movement and commerce between Gaza and the West Bank."[99] Hamas dismissed the measures as trivial and "media propaganda", and demanded a complete lifting of the blockade, including the removal on all restrictions on the import of construction material.[92] Israeli Arab member of Knesset Hanin Zoabi commented that the easing of the blockade would prove that "it is not a security blockade, but a political one," adding that the flotilla "succeeded in undermining the blockade's legitimacy."[100]
The U.S., United Nations, European Union and Russia in 2010 were jointly consulting with Israel, the Palestinian Authority and Egypt on additional measures, described by the United States Department of State as a "fundamental change in policy" toward the Gaza strip.[95][/quote]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip#June_2010_easing_of_the_blockade[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip#Further_easing_.282011-2012.29[/url]
I have an issue with people acting like IvP is a black and white issue, and that one side is bad or good. The truth is, both sides have done some really, really bad shit. The blatant israel hate shows that most of you are parroting opinions or aren't fully informed of the situation.
I give up.
Good job Basoro!
I have informed your section manager here at JIDF HQ and we are going to send you a bowl of sweeties for your excellent work here today.
Keep it up!
Kind Regards
JIDF Human Resources
Edit: I am most displeased with your rating Basoro... I'll keep the sweeties to myself and you can go without!
[QUOTE=entertainer89;39498312]Good job Basoro!
I have informed your section manager here at JIDF HQ and we are going to send you a bowl of sweeties for your excellent work here today.
Keep it up!
Kind Regards
JIDF Human Resources[/QUOTE]
I sure wish I could be a paid shill for not liking israel or palestine. :(
If Ahmadinejad came to Gaza Mossad would probably car bomb him.
[QUOTE=zombojoe;39498399]If Ahmadinejad came to Gaza Mossad would probably car bomb him.[/QUOTE]
Doubtful. It'd give Iran an easy excuse to start a war, it's much more likely that they would just tell him to fuck off.
[QUOTE=basoro;39498433]Doubtful. It'd give Iran an easy excuse to start a war, it's much more likely that they would just tell him to fuck off.[/QUOTE]
Because Iran is just itching to be nuked left right and center by the the US and Isreal. Sounds totally legit bro.
Well, I believe that Iran is a beautiful country, a lot of culture. I know that there are a lot of religious communities: the first, obviously is Islam, but there are also a lot of Jews (with many synagoges in Teheran) and there are also Christians.
In Iran, people can make the difference between Zionism and Semites. Zionism is an ideology. Semites are jewish people who are religious. That's why there aren't any issues.
Each communities are living together, in peace.
Ok, I know you'll say that there are oppressed people who are jailed in Iran, complaining in the streets, etc... In every country there are "unsatisfied" people, even in our Western countries.
We mostly say that there are a lot of prisoneers in Iran, but it's worse in the United States with more than two millions of prisoneers.
We mostly say that they don't respect human rights in Iran, but we maybe do worse (Guantanamo, Black Sites, our wars, etc...).
So please, we should all stop blaming other countries. Iran like Syria, or China, or Russia... There are problems everywhere. And when we try to delivers "democracy", we divide people and we make instability:
- The USA invaded Iraq because they believed that there was weapons of mass destruction: now, we know that the main reason was entierly false, we exploited their resources and there are a lot of instability (bomb attacks, killings)...
- We invaded Afghanistan and now we are fighting our former "soldiers", called before 'Mudjahidines': they fought against Soviets, we gave them billions dollars and we trained them. We renamed them "Al-Quaida" (it litteraly means the "(data) base").
- We 'destroyed' Lybia and killed Kaddafi without the agreement of the UN Security Council. Now, it's a country like the former Yougoslavia: there is a huge weapons trading there, people are divided and there is a lot of instability. Before, Lybia was a safe country - did you know that Kaddafi spend millions euros to find and extract water under the Sahara desert and to bring it to his population? Did you know that Lybia had a stable economy, oil money was spent for the people, everyone had a job, a healthcare, a house and a decent education system.
We, the United-States, the Europe combined, are fighting all around the world pretending to help people and bring democracy but we don't.
If we really helped people, if we really wanted to see everyone happy on earth, we wouldn't spend billions and billions of $ in the defense budget but we would give food, water and education to everyone (if possible) on earth.
And to finish, Israel shouldn't exist. I think we should have given to the jews, after the WW2, a part of Germany.
[video=youtube;HPfn4EivcSI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPfn4EivcSI[/video]
[QUOTE=LoucoussBe;39498578][b]Well, I believe that Iran is a beautiful country, a lot of culture. I know that there are a lot of religious communities: the first, obviously is Islam, but there are also a lot of Jews (with many synagoges in Teheran) and there are also Christians.[/b]
What about the beautiful dualistic religion of Zoroastrianism? Have we forgot their plight and how their religious monuments are covered in muslim regalia because they can only preach in a tiny desert city and make concessions to Ahura Mazda praying that their ancient religion that once dominated the region known as Iran falls apart?
[b]In Iran, people can make the difference between Zionism and Semites. Zionism is an ideology. Semites are jewish people who are religious. That's why there aren't any issues.[/b]
You mean like when they razed seven ancient synagogues?
[b]We mostly say that there are a lot of prisoneers in Iran, but it's worse in the United States with more than two millions of prisoneers.[/b]
Size /=/ per 1,000 people
[b]We mostly say that they don't respect human rights in Iran, but we maybe do worse (Guantanamo, Black Sites, our wars, etc...).[/b]
We don't, CHOP PEOPLE'S HANDS OFF FOR STEALING SOMETHING.
[b]- The USA invaded Iraq because they believed that there was weapons of mass destruction: now, we know that the main reason was entierly false, we exploited their resources and there are a lot of instability (bomb attacks, killings)...[/b]
Check yo sources, who said it was entirely false?
[b]- We invaded Afghanistan and now we are fighting our former "soldiers", called before 'Mudjahidines': they fought against Soviets, we gave them billions dollars and we trained them. We renamed them "Al-Quaida" (it litteraly means the "(data) base").[/b]
Al Qaeda /=/ Mujahaideen, all members of Al Qaeda were parts of Mujahaideen (at least founders), not all of the mujahaideen was Al Qaeda
[b]- We 'destroyed' Lybia and killed Kaddafi without the agreement of the UN Security Council. Now, it's a country like the former Yougoslavia: there is a huge weapons trading there, people are divided and there is a lot of instability. Before, Lybia was a safe country - did you know that Kaddafi spend millions euros to find and extract water under the Sahara desert and to bring it to his population? Did you know that Lybia had a stable economy, oil money was spent for the people, everyone had a job, a healthcare, a house and a decent education system.[/b]
So what about all those dissidents that disapeared early on? How come they've got a stable democratic government with one large blight on their record with the bombing of the US Embassy? How come weapons are being turned in and many people are signing up to be police and government workers? Why did Gadaffi call for a ceasefire and advance on Benghazi?
[b]If we really helped people, if we really wanted to see everyone happy on earth, we wouldn't spend billions and billions of $ in the defense budget but we would give food, water and education to everyone (if possible) on earth.[/b]
If possible.
[b]And to finish, Israel shouldn't exist. I think we should have given to the jews, after the WW2, a part of Germany.[/b]
lolno, this is an even worse idea, Germany would be fucking revanche as hell and might buy into Hitler's ideology
[/QUOTE]
[B]Well, I believe that Iran is a beautiful country, a lot of culture. I know that there are a lot of religious communities: the first, obviously is Islam, but there are also a lot of Jews (with many synagoges in Teheran) and there are also Christians.[/B]
[I]What about the beautiful dualistic religion of Zoroastrianism? Have we forgot their plight and how their religious monuments are covered in muslim regalia because they can only preach in a tiny desert city and make concessions to Ahura Mazda praying that their ancient religion that once dominated the region known as Iran falls apart?[/I]
It's their culture.
[B]In Iran, people can make the difference between Zionism and Semites. Zionism is an ideology. Semites are jewish people who are religious. That's why there aren't any issues.[/B]
[I]You mean like when they razed seven ancient synagogues?
[/I]
A lot of religious structures were destroyed in the past. Not only synagogues. And actually, there are about 18 synagogues in Tehran.
[B]We mostly say that there are a lot of prisoneers in Iran, but it's worse in the United States with more than two millions of prisoneers.[/B]
[I]Size /=/ per 1,000 people
[/I]
In the United States, there are 730 prisoneers for 100,000 people.
In Iran, it's 333 / 100,000 .
[B]We mostly say that they don't respect human rights in Iran, but we maybe do worse (Guantanamo, Black Sites, our wars, etc...).[/B]
[I]We don't, CHOP PEOPLE'S HANDS OFF FOR STEALING SOMETHING.[/I]
It's their law, and I guess there aren't many stealings there.
[B]- The USA invaded Iraq because they believed that there was weapons of mass destruction: now, we know that the main reason was entierly false, we exploited their resources and there are a lot of instability (bomb attacks, killings)...[/B]
[I]Check yo sources, who said it was entirely false?
[/I]
Simple Google search: [url]http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7634313/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/cias-final-report-no-wmd-found-iraq/#.URL6ih03gx4[/url]
[B]- We invaded Afghanistan and now we are fighting our former "soldiers", called before 'Mudjahidines': they fought against Soviets, we gave them billions dollars and we trained them. We renamed them "Al-Quaida" (it litteraly means the "(data) base").[/B]
[I]Al Qaeda /=/ Mujahaideen, all members of Al Qaeda were parts of Mujahaideen (at least founders), not all of the mujahaideen was Al Qaeda
[/I]
Osama Bin Laden was their leader in Afghanistan, Mossad, CIA and Pakistani Secret Services trained them. The United States gave funds to help them. When Afghanistan was free, Talibans had the power, and even if Islamic law is bad, their country was stable until the US intervention.
[B]- We 'destroyed' Lybia and killed Kaddafi without the agreement of the UN Security Council. Now, it's a country like the former Yougoslavia: there is a huge weapons trading there, people are divided and there is a lot of instability. Before, Lybia was a safe country - did you know that Kaddafi spend millions euros to find and extract water under the Sahara desert and to bring it to his population? Did you know that Lybia had a stable economy, oil money was spent for the people, everyone had a job, a healthcare, a house and a decent education system.[/B]
[I]So what about all those dissidents that disapeared early on? How come they've got a stable democratic government with one large blight on their record with the bombing of the US Embassy? How come weapons are being turned in and many people are signing up to be police and government workers? Why did Gadaffi call for a ceasefire and advance on Benghazi?[/I]
Oh, well, France illegally supplied weapons to Libyans: [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8606541/France-supplying-weapons-to-Libyan-rebels.html[/url]
Then, I guess they attacked Libyan authorities and stole more weapons and ammos...
[B]If we really helped people, if we really wanted to see everyone happy on earth, we wouldn't spend billions and billions of $ in the defense budget but we would give food, water and education to everyone (if possible) on earth.[/B]
[I]If possible.
[/I]
The United States spent more than 400 billions $ last year for his defense. Why spending all this money for killing life than helping them? It's more affordable to cure starving in the world than sending drones to kill people everywhere (and now, even United States citizens).
[B]And to finish, Israel shouldn't exist. I think we should have given to the jews, after the WW2, a part of Germany.[/B]
[I]lolno, this is an even worse idea, Germany would be fucking revanche as hell and might buy into Hitler's ideology
[/I]So, who you think we are to decide anything anywhere in the world, by using army forces if needed? It's colonialism.
[QUOTE=LoucoussBe;39500321]
[b]It's their culture.[/b]
[u]Bitch, get out the way, a culture allows the eradication of Zoroastrianism? What.[/u]
[B]In Iran, people can make the difference between Zionism and Semites. Zionism is an ideology. Semites are jewish people who are religious. That's why there aren't any issues.[/B]
[I]You mean like when they razed seven ancient synagogues?
[/I]
A lot of religious structures were destroyed in the past. Not only synagogues. And actually, there are about 18 synagogues in Tehran.
[U]The issue is that these were ancient Synagogues relevant to the history of Persia, not just old buildings. Them being demolished (esp. in remote areas) shows anti-semitism because of how they were chosen. Why not an ancient mosque?[/U]
[B]We mostly say that there are a lot of prisoneers in Iran, but it's worse in the United States with more than two millions of prisoneers.[/B]
[I]Size /=/ per 1,000 people
[/I]
In the United States, there are 730 prisoneers for 100,000 people.
In Iran, it's 333 / 100,000 .
[B]We mostly say that they don't respect human rights in Iran, but we maybe do worse (Guantanamo, Black Sites, our wars, etc...).[/B]
[I]We don't, CHOP PEOPLE'S HANDS OFF FOR STEALING SOMETHING.[/I]
It's their law, and I guess there aren't many stealings there.
[U]What-that's a human rights violation![/U]
[B]- The USA invaded Iraq because they believed that there was weapons of mass destruction: now, we know that the main reason was entierly false, we exploited their resources and there are a lot of instability (bomb attacks, killings)...[/B]
[I]Check yo sources, who said it was entirely false?
[/I]
Simple Google search: [url]http://www.nbcnews.com/id/7634313/ns/world_news-mideast_n_africa/t/cias-final-report-no-wmd-found-iraq/#.URL6ih03gx4[/url]
[U]Does the idea of a possibly wrong report mean anything? What about the Kurdistan/Iran Gas attacks?[/U]
[B]- We invaded Afghanistan and now we are fighting our former "soldiers", called before 'Mudjahidines': they fought against Soviets, we gave them billions dollars and we trained them. We renamed them "Al-Quaida" (it litteraly means the "(data) base").[/B]
[I]Al Qaeda /=/ Mujahaideen, all members of Al Qaeda were parts of Mujahaideen (at least founders), not all of the mujahaideen was Al Qaeda
[/I]
Osama Bin Laden was their leader in Afghanistan, Mossad, CIA and Pakistani Secret Services trained them. The United States gave funds to help them. When Afghanistan was free, Talibans had the power, and even if Islamic law is bad, their country was stable until the US intervention.
[U]The leader of the Afghani Mujhadeein was [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_Yusuf_Azzam]This guy[/url], though I will concede that Osama was involved in the direct funding. Also, the state plunged into utter chaos with the Northern Alliance taking to the streets and trying to fend of the Taliban, who are not al-Qaeda.[/u]
[B]- We 'destroyed' Lybia and killed Kaddafi without the agreement of the UN Security Council. Now, it's a country like the former Yougoslavia: there is a huge weapons trading there, people are divided and there is a lot of instability. Before, Lybia was a safe country - did you know that Kaddafi spend millions euros to find and extract water under the Sahara desert and to bring it to his population? Did you know that Lybia had a stable economy, oil money was spent for the people, everyone had a job, a healthcare, a house and a decent education system.[/B]
[I]So what about all those dissidents that disapeared early on? How come they've got a stable democratic government with one large blight on their record with the bombing of the US Embassy? How come weapons are being turned in and many people are signing up to be police and government workers? Why did Gadaffi call for a ceasefire and advance on Benghazi?[/I]
Oh, well, France illegally supplied weapons to Libyans: [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8606541/France-supplying-weapons-to-Libyan-rebels.html[/url]
Then, I guess they attacked Libyan authorities and stole more weapons and ammos...
[U]Not even bothering responding, nothing suggests that was illicit, most weapons were turned into the government.[/U]
[B]If we really helped people, if we really wanted to see everyone happy on earth, we wouldn't spend billions and billions of $ in the defense budget but we would give food, water and education to everyone (if possible) on earth.[/B]
[I]If possible.
[/I]
The United States spent more than 400 billions $ last year for his defense. Why spending all this money for killing life than helping them? It's more affordable to cure starving in the world than sending drones to kill people everywhere (and now, even United States citizens).
[U]While the US needs a defense slashing, it doesn't work like that, you chumpstick, we can't just pour money in and things are solved.[/U]
[B]And to finish, Israel shouldn't exist. I think we should have given to the jews, after the WW2, a part of Germany.[/B]
[I]lolno, this is an even worse idea, Germany would be fucking revanche as hell and might buy into Hitler's ideology
[/I]So, who you think we are to decide anything anywhere in the world, by using army forces if needed? It's colonialism.
[U]Huh? I'm saying it's an awful idea to carve a state out of Germany because 1. Most Jews wanted out. 2. Carving up nations (including Palestine) is a terrible idea, but in the hands of a modern country could be incredibly devastating.[/U]
[/QUOTE]
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
[t]http://filesmelt.com/dl/what83.jpg[/t]
my goodness walls of text hurt my eyes
take this shit to mass debate
-snipe-
[editline]7th February 2013[/editline]
Well, I'm heading to bed, it's up to you if you want to keep going over LoucoussBe, I'm going to bow it for tonight. I appreciate your lack of cussing and insults!
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